The Dangers of Centering Prayer

[buzzcut]

Hi, Joysong, good to hear from you, though I get the impression I exasperate you! It was a different Father Keating I wrote to – the man himself, Thomas Keating. So we’ll see whether or not he has time to answer my questions. Yes, I’ve read some of Fr Dubay’s books, though not the one you mention. He’s certainly very knowledgeable about Carmelite prayer, thought at times his writing has a polemical air to it that I don’t enjoy reading. I’d be interested to hear what he has to say only if his comments are based on an accurate reading of the centering prayer literature, and not on some “straw man” argument that misrepresents the texts. I’m flattered that you would consider typing them out. Despite our different ways of approaching this investigation I feel we are kindred spirits in an odd sort of a way. Certainly your final paragraph:

It seems that the Holy Spirit is the most trustworthy guide to inwardly convict us that we are or are not in the presence of Truth. At the very least, He will give us an uncomfortable check in our spirit indicating we need more research, so that He can give assurance when we finally encounter Truth.

I wholeheartedly agree with, except for the last part:

In other words, I don’t need a clanging symbol.

I can sometimes be more of a clanging symbol type. As you may have noticed.

 

[buzzcut]

what was I thinking? I mean cymbal, not symbol.

 

[Joysong]

Hi Buzzcut,

My error – I meant cymbal too, though I meant it for myelf, and not at all to imply that I was referring to you. I felt somewhat inadequate as I hoped you might believe this little old lady, without my posting any further qualifications. But I know that if I speak truth, I don’t need anything else if the Holy Spirit is active among us. He will back us up as we share in His name.

Thank you for your kind reply; and yes, I have always felt that we are kindred spirits in the Lord. It alarms me that you, who have searched so long and so devotedly to learn God’s ways, might fall into a sidestep that could pull you away from Him. But I give you more credit than that, for you are wise and alert. And I also trust the Lord who holds you in the palm of His hand! For anyone else who has not studied as you have, panic would set in for sure! These are God’s little ones who have every right to know the dangers.

Remember, too, Buzz, that I am not against C.P., as I posted about a half-dozen posts ago. For certain individuals, it may be a good practice! But I am not in favor of someone indiscriminately calling out to anyone who will listen, assuring them of safety in embracing this method – speaking of enticements which assure the recipient of exalted graces and heavenly wisdom.

I must assume that this is always done innocently, for some individuals have found it to be very beneficial for them personally. This is the good news that one wants to simply tell everyone else so they can find favor also, and is not shared with malice or intent to deceive.

As for writing to “Thomas” Keating, you surely know there will be a bias toward adopting his method? How can you distinguish, in that case? I vaguely remember that you posted a question on his website a few months ago. Any luck?

So now, do I type Father Dubay’s cautions in a P.M. to you, or post it here for the benefit of other readers? At least you will have another opinion to weigh from someone with worthy credentials. http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Sincerely in Christ,
Carole

 

[Joysong]

Dear Buzzcut,

I believe it is a better idea to post Father’s writing in this thread.
Fr. Thomas Dubay:

Pg. 172: Centering prayer, properly conceived, is nothing new. Without using the term, St. Teresa speaks of it, but she was wiser in her advice than are many contemporary proponents of the method. She did not propose the simple practice as generally or commonly suitable, but only for certain people

at certain times in their journey to God. Many people are not ready for the approach, while others are beyond it and would be hindered were they to try it as a daily practice.

I get the impression that proponents of centering prayer offer Christians, even beginners, an easy access to contemplation. By this method one is supposed to have a speedy way of finding God in advanced prayer. As it is now presented, I find it difficult to imagine c.p. as anything but a passing fad.

Pg. 201: What concerns me is the person who embraces a new proposal without discernment, study, or evaluation. Likewise, you will find people who, with little knowledge of the history of theology, will enthusiastically embrace an idea as new, which is actually centuries old — something which long ago was proposed, tried, found lacking, and then discarded by minds far superior to those of present day promoters.

No one can sensibly evaluate proposals in any field without first being in possession of a competent mastery of that field. Neophytes enthusiastically embrace novel ideas because they have no solid vantage point from which to assess their worth or lack of the same.

I do not see how anyone can reasonably judge any of these movements without first understanding in a somewhat thorough way what the masters have written. When you have grasped the works of people like Bernard of Clairvaux and Catherine of Siena, Theresa of Jesus and John of the Cross, you are fitted to recognize a genuine development, or to reject what actually is a foreign body.

I’ll stop briefly at this point, Buzzcut, and continue in another post. My own observation of the new “old” idea, was reading that St. Teresa had read Francesco de Osuna’s works and tried to absorb his teaching. I have Osuna’s book called Third Spiritual Alphabet. There are other works she studied in order to empty her mind and become absorbed in Divinity.

Having learned the error of these teachings, she wrote extensively about it, notably in Ch. XXII of her Life. Her charity would not permit her to discredit the proponents of these practices, saying that they no doubt had good reason for what they practiced. But for her, it was a wrong method.
History has proven who was in possession of Truth, for it was Teresa who was canonized — not the advocates of these spurious methods. God raised her up, I believe, specifically to counter the error, and her writings speak to us today as a sure and solid testimony to what is of God and what is man’s methodology. We are certainly blessed and privileged to have access to these divine teachings.

What you observe in me, I admit, is an ardent defensiveness when I read from some advocates that centering prayer is the same concept taught by Sts. Teresa and John of the Cross!

Carole

 

[Joysong]

Dear Buzzcut,

Continuing Father Dubay’s writings on C.P.

We are told in the very first verse of the Psalter about pondering the divine word day and night (Ps. 1:1-2). The model of contemplation, Mary Immaculate, is presented by St. Luke as a woman who ponders the divine mysteries (Lk. 2:19, 51). Nowhere do we read of emptying the mind as a procedure for encountering God. When the Lord gives a loftier non-conceptual communion, well and good — and He surely gave it to His Mother.
But even there, the mind is not empty. The spiritual writer Thomas Green saw this point when he remarked of beginners in meditation that St. John of the Cross "values the meditative ways by which beginners come to know God. He would have little sympathy

with the advice, sometimes heard today, that even beginners can simply ‘center’ on a God they do not yet know. We humans can only love what we know."

In our biblical and Catholic tradition, we actively meditate until God takes the initiative and gives us something better on which to focus our attention; that is, the beginnings of infused prayer. For St. Teresa to sit before the Lord with an empty mind is to be a ‘ninny,’ not exactly a desirable state! It is difficult to see the contrary teaching as anything more than another among many fads.

****Question: ****Suppose that centering prayer aims at reducing or slowing down one’s thought processes, at dislodging the mind from its usual ways of thinking.

Comment: Achieving an inner calm is beneficial, of course, but I am not at ease about the formulation, “dislodging the mind from its usual ways of thinking.” The Teresian and Sanjuanist advice seems more in touch with reality: operate in the human manner until God begins to give in His divine manner. In other words, meditate discursively until God infuses the dark knowing and loving we call contemplation.

I find somewhat unreal the promise that by a centering method, one has a quick access to God, a contemplative experience of His presence. Perhaps an oriental emptying approach may yield some sort of impersonal awareness, but this is not Christic communion — an impersonal awareness is not a contact with the living, Triune God.

pg. 203: I think it is a mistake to teach centering approaches to a general group whether via book or lecture. For many people they are a hindrance, not a help. People who should be meditationg discursively (and that includes most beginners) can be impeded by the emptying or slowing down advice. Even the advanced, who habitually receive infused light and love, can also be impeded since an active centering procedure interferes with the divine inflowing.

I would not promote CP before a group. St. Teresa was wiser. There are no short cuts to contemplation. Using a word to re-focus attention can be useful for a person at a given time. For instance, it can be helpful for an individual usually receiving mystical prayer but who on occasion meets inner blank periods. Therefore, on a one-to-one basis, I may advise something like the centering idea, but without oriental implications.

Reference to support my last statement where I experience keen displeasure with those who erroneously advertise our Saints as defense and justification for their methods:

St. Teresa, Ch. IV, Life:

People may attain more quickly to contemplation by following this method of *not laboring with the understanding (centering prayer) *-- it is a very troublesome and painful process. For if the will has nothing to employ it, and love has no present object with which to busy itself, the soul finds itself without either support or occupation; its solitude and aridity cause it great distress and its thoughts involve it in the severest conflict. People in this condition need greater purity of conscience than those who can labor with the understanding. Anyone unable to make use of this method is in much greater danger and should occupy himself frequently in reading, since he cannot find instruction in any other way.

And inability to do this is so very painful that, if the master who is directing him forbids him to read and thus find help for recollection, reading is none the less necessary for him, however little it may be, as a substitute for the mental prayer which he is unable to practice. I mean that if he is compelled to spend a great deal of time in prayer without this aid, it will be impossible for him to persist in it for long; and if he does so it will endanger his health, since it is a very painful process.
**

 

[buzzcut]

Hi, Joysong, I’m not particularly for or against centering prayer right now. I just want to understand it, and in particular I want to know if it fits into a Teresian framework or not, and if so how. In other words, St Teresa is the firm ground on which I stand and my known point of reference. These critiques that tell me that “centering prayer involves repeating a mantra,” “you have to make your mind a blank,” etc. are not helpful because they’re at odds with the texts. Like Mr Gradgrind, what I want now is facts. So my letter to Fr Thomas Keating was asking about establishing these facts – of course I didn’t write to him saying “Excuse me, Father, but do you think this centering prayer thing is any good?” There is a board where Fr Pennington posts a weekly reflection and I asked my questions there but didn’t get a reply. But that’s okay – he’s a Trappist monk after all and I don’t expect him to spend his time on the net dialoguing with people.

The first statement from Fr Thomas Dubay is very interesting (and BTW thank you so much for typing it out):

Centering prayer, properly conceived, is nothing new. Without using the term, St. Teresa speaks of it

I’d like to know where, as that might answer the questions I have. I understand that Fr Dubay has changed his mind about centering prayer over the years, and I don’t know where the passage you quote from fits in chronologically. His overall stance here seems to be one of caution. Certainly he wants to rule out the possibility that centering prayer might be something for everyone. His insistence that prospective centering pray-ers first master the complete works of St Bernard of Clairvaux, St Catherine of Siena, St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross would certainly narrow the field!

BTW there’s no need to seek to impress me with your credentials, as you already have. I am certainly impressed that you took the time to look up Francesco de Osuna’s writings. I had taken the story about The third spiritual alphabet at face value. I didn’t know there was more to it than met the eye.

Now, on to your most recent post. Here again we find one of these problematic critiques that misrepresents centering prayer and then criticizes the misrepresentation. All of Father Dubay’s misconceptions about centering prayer would have been corrected in the first half hour of the beginners’ workshop I attended.

The passage you quote from chapter 4 of the Life needs more study on my part, so I will stop here for now.

 

[Joysong]

Hi Buzzcut,

Buzzcut:

These critiques that tell me that “centering prayer involves repeating a mantra,” “you have to make your mind a blank,” etc. are not helpful because they’re at odds with the texts.

I think if you read my post #12 in this thread, you will see that I agree with you totally.

Joysong:

A friend just sent me the book on Centering Prayer by Pennington, and I have completed much of it. This author provides a wonderful method of helping the soul to focus on God - not on nothingness. We need to stress that he does not advocate the eastern practices of “emptying the mind.”

It is important to note though, that the practice of using a sacred word to help the person stay focused is a very good aid —HOWEVER, it is only for those who are very mature in their spiritual growth and have advanced in prayer. Otherwise, we see the problems that can occur, such as Grape mentioned.

My opinion is that those who attempt to promote the practice indiscriminately to anyone who will listen, have opened the door to irreparable spiritual harm if the person is a beginner.

Alternatively, I see how good the concept can be for the very few who possess all three spiritual signs mentioned by St. John of the Cross, as criteria for practicing it.

Fathers Keating and Pennington are monks whose entire life is prayer! They stumbled upon an excellent method that works for them, because they are far more advanced in prayer than the man on the street.

What I see as problematic and dangerous, and which has been my primary objection, is that this method is taken to those who are beginners, at best, who have no readiness to practice it. Pennington’s book is excellent until you reach the end, where he wrote that a Sister was teaching this in school religion class to children! He thought it was a good idea!!!

I truly question their discernment, for they have not acted with wisdom in their spiritual direction of others, IMO; whereas, Father Dubay has seen the dangers and spoken out about them. You may be right that he has changed his opinion about the practice, itself, but I would bet the farm he still does not believe it should be attempted by the majority of pray-ers.

There is also mention in Pennington’s book that a mother was practicing CP and was delighted to have her three-year-old trying the method — and Pennington agreed!!!

Oh my, I feel my dander rising again. Time to exit. Before I do, I commend the practice of CP, but only for certain people who are ready spiritually. You may be one of them, judging from the spirituality I see in your many posts.

Carole

 

[Joysong]

Dear Buzzcut,

Buzzcut:

Centering prayer, properly conceived, is nothing new. Without using the term, St. Teresa speaks of it.
**
I’d like to know where, as that might answer the questions I have.

His (Father Dubay’s) insistence that prospective centering pray-ers first master the complete works of St Bernard of Clairvaux, St Catherine of Siena, St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross would certainly narrow the field!
**

St. Teresa did not use the term “centering,” per se, because that is the new coin for an old twist. But she does allude to it in the quote from Ch. 4 and many places in Ch. 22 of the Life. I’m trying to remember where else I saw that she had attempted it, thinking it was a good thing to go around in a state of absorption, as she worded it. (I’ll try to find it) She was so aghast that she had erred regarding this that she gave written instructions about it to her prioresses in the book of her Foundations.

Back to Father Dubay. I realize hardly anyone is going to read all of those works prior to understanding “centering.” That’s his field of study and expertise; so much so, that he was able to sense quickly that something was just not correct in the teachings about it. He had a prior solid basis for recognizing error.

The works of Carmelite Doctors are my field of study, as well. With limited ability, since I have not authored a book , I can only hope to point out the problems as I am now doing, hoping that the Spirit will put a check in the hearts of those attracted to it, and who have not done any other study in order to obtain proper discernment. Perhaps they will seek out a competent authority in the Church who will help them to weigh and test everything before jumping in the water.

http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Carole

 

[buzzcut]

I am still getting to grips with the passage you quoted from Life 4.7-4.8.

I tried as hard as I could to keep Jesus Christ, our God and our Lord, present within me, and that was my way of prayer. If I reflected upon some phase of His Passion, I represented Him to myself interiorly.

Now in the same paragraph she goes on to say that she had no ability for either discursive thought, or the use of the imagination.

How is it possible to “represent Him to myself interiorly” without using either discursive thought or the imagination?

 

[buzzcut]

PS This Catholic Answers forum has been working very slowly today, and not for the first time. I’ve a good mind to set up my own forum on a decent server. “Buzzcut’s Carmelite Forum.” It has a certain ring to it, don’t you think?

 

[Joysong]

Hi Buzz,

Maybe this will help.

Chapter 6, The Foundations

I know some souls of great virtue who remained for seven or eight hours in absorption. What I understand about this occurrence is that since the Lord begins to give delight, and our nature is very fond of delight, the soul becomes so occupied in the pleasure that it does not want to stir or lose that experience for anything. When the experience takes place in a weak nature, or comes from one’s own natural inventiveness, nature will make souls know a thousand delightful lies.

In this absorption, the imagination does not wander, but in apprehending one thing, concentrates on it without distraction.

In absorption, although the body is captive, the will is not, nor is the memory or the intellect. But these faculties carry on their delirious activity. So I counsel the prioresses to make every possible effort to prevent the nuns from spending long periods in this daze. For to remain in this absorption is nothing else, in my opinion, than to allow the faculties and senses to become crippled and not carry out what the soul commands them.

If they have received some extraordinary favor from the Lord or seen some vision, then, especially, will their souls be left in such a condition that they will think they are continuing to see the vision; but this is not so, for the vision was seen no more than once.

Nor would I want whoever does not at first understand this to grow tired in reading it many times, especially the prioresses and the mistresses of novices who must guide the Sisters in prayer. If I were to write all that has come to my attention concerning this harm, they would see that I am right to insist so much on the matter.

During St. Teresa’s time, there was a type of centering being promoted by a group within the illuminist movement known as dejados. Their spirituality developed along unorthodox lines. I’m assuming the practice did not fail to catch her attention.

The basis, as I understand it from her words above, is to “apprehend one thing, concentrating on it without distraction.” Sound familiar? My feeling is that she tried to concentrate on Jesus Christ present within her when she prayed. It is a form of ‘centering’ contemplation that is being taught today, although a word is chosen to help the person stay with it.

BUT, she goes on to say this type of contemplation, where one does not labor with the understanding, is a very troublesome and painful process. She tried it, without success. (It is man’s effort, huh?) If you read on toward the very end of Ch. 4, she says, “For it was not usual with me to suffer from aridity: this only came when I had no book, whereupon my soul would at once become disturbed and my thoughts would begin to wander. As soon as I started to read, they began to collect themselves and the book acted like a bait to my soul.” We see how importantly our Saint values the aid of a book, not only in Ch. 4, but elsewhere, throughout her writings.

What I glean from this is that a beginner who has not yet received any form of supernatural prayer, nor has exercised their faculties properly with discursive meditation, would not even recognize that a so-called vision or revelation received in this centering state, would not be from God. How could they, when they have not even learned to recognize God’s voice or action, as they progress in prayer?

I do remember that CP only asks for two twenty-minute periods daily, so if the person stays within this limit it would not cause as much harm. When I read that Weeorphan was centering for three hours, I simply remember the words of St. Teresa. I shudder to think this could be extended by a beginner much longer than 20 minutes, due to a pseudo delight, which she mentioned above.

I’m afraid to type any more here, for I know the posts are limited, and I don’t know whether this is making any sense to you. I may not have organized my thoughts adequately.

http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Carole

 

[buzzcut]

Hi, Joysong, I don’t think it’s that you’ve not organized your thoughts sufficiently, I think it’s just that this material is intrinsically extraordinarily difficult. At least it is for me.

Your quote from the Foundations is interesting. I don’t have that book and so hadn’t come across it before. I think it’s volume 3 in the set and I didn’t buy that one. But I think St Teresa is here talking about a different danger, as an effort to focus on one thing only is definitely not centering prayer. So, though a discussion of absorption and its dangers might be interesting in its own right, I don’t think it belongs here, as this discussion is intricate enought as it is.

I didn’t know who the dejados were, never heard of them before, so I Googled them and by chance happened to come up with this essay by Ernest Larkin, OCarm:

St. Teresa of Avila and Centering Prayer

Larkin has some interesting things to say about the background to St Teresa’s prayer in Francesco de Osuna. Unfortunately he conflates centering prayer with the Maranatha meditation of John main, which just adds to the confusion. Apart from that I find other contradictions in Larkin’s account. In one place he says that “it is doubtful if the psyche can even function without an image, even in the contemplative state.” Then a bit later he asserts: “The contemplative exeriences are imageless.” Isn’t he contradicting himself? No wonder I find it difficult to make sense of this material! Still, he covers some interesting ground.

You say that St T had tried “this type of contemplation, where one does not labor with the understanding” without success. I don’t think she was without success. She says “one reaches contemplation more quickly along this way.” So I think she was successful. It’s just that she found it very hard as she was distracted by many thoughts. Hence her preference for using a book to recollect herself.

Well, this material is all hard going for me. I notice that we’ve had no other posters on this board today apart from you and me. Wonder why not.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Buzz,

I just lost my post for the second time and have no more patience left to type it a third time , but tomorrow’s another day, thank goodness!

Well, this material is all hard going for me. I notice that we’ve had no other posters on this board today apart from you and me. Wonder why not.

Might it be because their brain is fried, like ours?
Or might it be due to the forum’s slow delivery?
I took the Administrator’s advice and shortened the # of posts to 10 per page, and only requested 2 days of history, and it really sped things up considerably!

I’ll look up your referenced link to Larkin and check with you tomorrow. BTW, are you a man or a woman?

Carole

 

[buzzcut]

Joysong, I’m sorry to hear you lost your post. I was seriously thinking about setting up another forum if this one continues to prove so frustrating. I printed off the instructions on how to do it. It doesn’t sound too difficult. The hardest part is choosing a name, as all the obvious choices – buzzcut.com, contemplative.com, etc. – are already taken. I’ve set my options to 10/-2 as you suggest and that is better.

I’m glad I’m not the only one whose brains are fried. I think of myself as a reasonably intelligent person. but I find this material extraordinarily difficult to get to grips with. I was beginning to think I had some kind of mental deficiency. Having slept on it, and having absorbed everything that’s been said, and all that’s been quoted from the saints, plus my experience at the workshop on centering prayer, it is now beginning to make sense to me. However it will take me some time to arrange my thoughts into a coherent order.

LOL I’m a man but I’m curious to know why there was some doubt about this! Anyway I put it in my profile in case any one else has this same question.

 

[Joysong]

Hi Buzzcut,

LOL I’m a man but I’m curious to know why there was some doubt about this!

I pictured you in my mind as a male, and have this image of a person who uses a chain saw or is a carpenter, or even someone with a haircut that is a “buzz.” It is funny how a name triggers things in the imagination. But just in case you were female, I thought I should find a new mental image. http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

To add to the confusion, I tried to read your link today, and got an error message that Acrobat Reader has no external link in Windows (or something to that effect). It would not load for me, so I have to explore the reason and get help figuring it out.

Before I lose another post due to “time out” here, I will finish in Wordpad and copy it to a new post.

Later,
Carole

 

[DBT]

Joysong:

Might it be because their brain is fried, like ours?
Or might it be due to the forum’s slow delivery?

Hi Buzz and Carole -

Right on both counts! I love following these discussions and participating when I can . . . but when my brain gets fried (which is pretty often) I just need to step back for a while.

I’d like to go back to something you both were talking about a while ago . . . about whether St. Teresa ever directly or indirectly references the kind of “techniques” found in the centering prayer movement today.

I don’t have the quote handy so I’ll probably mess it up by trying to paraphrase from memory. Anyway, Teresa was talking about the early stages of infused contemplation . . . when our active efforts begin to give way to the passive.

She said at that point the most we should do is say a brief “word” at the onset of distractions as a sign of our intent. To do more . . . to try and pray long litanies in an effort to be “doing” something would actually be working against the grace the individual was being given at that point in time. The “word” was to be like gently “puffing on a candle” to keep the flame alive. Anyway, that was the basic gist.

Setting aside all other issues about centering prayer/infused contemplation for the moment, does this sound, at least a little bit, how Fr. Keating describes the use of the “sacred word?”

I most recently saw the quote I’m referring to here in Fr. Dubay’s discussion of the Teresian Mansions (the 4th I believe) in “Fire Within.”

BTW . . . I’m thinking buzzcutt as in Flat Top Anyway, that’s the “image” that’s in my mind.

 

[buzzcut]

DBT:

She said at that point the most we should do is say a brief “word” at the onset of distractions as a sign of our intent. To do more . . . to try and pray long litanies in an effort to be “doing” something would actually be working against the grace the individual was being given at that point in time. The “word” was to be like gently “puffing on a candle” to keep the flame alive.

Something else to read up on! Thank you for the reference DBT but prompted by the Larkin article I was about to re-read the middle chapters of Book 2 of Ascent. Now I have your reference to follow up on too!

Now I see why centering prayer has proved so popular. If you want to follow in the footsteps of St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross you have to read piles and piles of very dense books. I looked into OCDS at one point but it was like a 7-year formation program! That’s out of the question for me and probably for 99% of other people too. Whereas the centering prayer people have formulated their instructions into half a dozen brief paragraphs, and then organized simple workshops in local parishes. They’ve made it accessible. Someone should do the same for the Carmelites.

Your pal,

Flat Top.

 

[DBT]

buzzcut:

Now I see why centering prayer has proved so popular. If you want to follow in the footsteps of St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross you have to read piles and piles of very dense books. I looked into OCDS at one point but it was like a 7-year formation program! That’s out of the question for me and probably for 99% of other people too. Whereas the centering prayer people have formulated their instructions into half a dozen brief paragraphs, and then organized simple workshops in local parishes. They’ve made it accessible. Someone should do the same for the Carmelites.

Your pal,

Flat Top.

Hey Buzz -

Oh, so many ways I could go with this . . . but I’ll just let it go, well most of it

What’s that old expression “Never say never?” It wouldn’t suprise me in the least bit to see you in OCDS someday.

I was once an intense “searcher” . . . much like you. But at some point I realized my searching lacked focus and direction. Carmel provided that for me. In someways it has “saved me from myself.” I don’t know if that makes any sense or not . . . but I see there’s a kind of “danger” in a directionless search . . . at least there was for me.

Also, it never ceased to amaze me that whatever direction my searching took me . . . I always kept coming back to things Carmel. Sound familiar?? Nudge, nudge.

Yes, the formation process in OCDS can seem daunting . . . it scared me too (still does sometimes). In fact, I probably have every possible reason/excuse NOT to be in OCDS . . . a father of 4 young children involved in every possible kind of activity, family illnesses - my mother and son taking chemo at the same time, a business with 20 or so employees to take care of. The list goes on and on . . . and the demands on my time is pretty much 24/7. But you know what - it’s precisely BECAUSE of those demands on my time that I KNOW OCDS is right for me. And all I had to do to make it all work is to change the way I think about time.

Hmm, “time.” Now maybe that’s something to think on for a while. All of this is my way of saying that Carmel is a “calling” and not just some kind of club or prayer group . . . but I know you know that already. And I DO think you are being called to something.

Well, enough of this rambling for now . . .

Your pal too.
DBT (Dave)

BTW, I’ll try to dig up that quote that started all of this.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Buzzcut,

To say that I caught your “headache” would be an understatement. If I thought my brain was fried yesterday, then today it is burnt toast!

After downloading Acrobat Reader V.7 (1 hr. 40 min.) and spending a lot of time thereafter trying to figure out how to get it to read your link, I opted to print out the entire 12 pages to digest at my leisure. And to even imply that it was leisure is a misnomer! I almost threw up my hands and quit when I was half-way.

Then I discovered the meat and potatoes beginning on page 396, “Teresa’s Method of Centering Prayer.” I sensed that most of our searching is pretty well summed up in that section, and it amused me to see that some of the references we discussed above were there in the text also. Did you actually get through it to the end? Does it provide enough solid instruction to ease your searching? Is there any need to reply to the questions we had in the thread above, other than in light of the treatise?

I noted on page 399 left top side, that:

Her delight in mystical absorptions was so great, that “there was no one who could have made me return to the humanity of Christ.” This was a temporary and much regretted departure from her Beloved. This error was not only prejudicial to the Risen Lord, it fostered an illusory prayer unconnected with her life. Such prayer lacked foundation, the foundation or real life mediated by the image of the Sacred Humanity."

This clarifies, for me, at least, why she was so adamant that her prioresses keep a watchful eye to prevent the practice in her convents. It seems to be a product of improperly laid foundations in prayer, such as a beginner might encounter in CP. This beginner might unwaryingly be exposed to pseudo delights (mystical absorptions) that we spoke about a few posts ago.

Man O man, am I going to sleep good tonight after this grueling study! Larkin is hard to pore through, huh?

Flattop’s friend,
Carole

 

[DBT]

Here is the quote I was referring to in post # 36. It’s from Fr. Dubay’s summary of the 4th mansions in “Fire Within.”

The most we should do is occasionally, and quite simply, to utter a single word, like a person giving a little puff to a candle, when he sees it has almost gone out, so as to make it burn again; though, if it were fully alight, I suppose the only result of blowing it would be to put it out. I think the puff should be a gentle one because, if we begin to tax our brains by making up long speeches, the will may become active again. (p92 Fire Within - him quoting the Way of Perfection)

There are many similiar type of quotes from Fr. Keating’s “Intimacy With God” as the whole notion of a “sacred word” seems to be a very big part of his presentation of centering prayer. Here’s a typical one:

The principal practice in Centering Prayer is to choose a word that represents our intention to consent to God’s presence and action within us – it could be God, Abba, Jesus, peace or some other word - and to return to that word whenever we feel our intention growing fuzzy (p57 Intimacy With God).

I’m not one who sees a whole lot of commonality between centering prayer and infused contemplation as taught by St. Teresa and St. John. In fact, Fr. Dubay goes on to say after the first quote above that "Teresa is careful not to suggest it (centering prayer) for all stages of the spiritual life (p92 Fire Within). This is a major point that Carole has been making in her posts.

That having been said, this seems to be one point where centering prayer and Teresian prayer intersect at least to a certain degree. But, in my way of thinking, this similarity is small . . . dealing with only one tiny part (handling distractions during prayer) at a very specific point in one’s prayer life (the 4th mansion).