The dangers of dabbling in the Occult, New Age, and NeoPaganism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Holly3278
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
which you just did, which the bbile has a different view on.
Quoting the Bible doesn’t change reality or the rules of logic. I ask you again, why should I fear someone who has to resort to isolated loony events called ‘demonic occurrences’ when it’s more efficient to just open a rift in space, send in an demon army, and promise power to those who side with him?

If Satan is soooo powerful and feared according to you and your little interpretation of the Bible, then that’s EXACTLY what he ought to be doing.

Oh and FYI?

Read your verses in context:
Matthew 10:26-28 - "Therefore do not be afraid of them. Nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known.
What I say to you in the darkness, speak in the light; what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops.
And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
The passages speak of courage in times of persecution. It deals with nothing on the subject of Satan’s power or whether I should fear him.

You give the Loser Downstairs too much credit.
your botched rendition your claiming of your post
And I just posted three quotes from the Catechism proving just that. (The fact that you just skipped over them proves who’s really in denial here.) The Church condemns superstition because it’s silly, it’s excessive, and a huge waste of time. Do you disagree with that?
but you know your wrong and i understand you find it hard to admit it.
Where am I wrong? Am I wrong to say that my criticism towards superstitious practices is backed by my Catholic belief? Am I wrong to say that Satan is just some spiritual wimp who can barely bend the laws of reality?

It’s obvious that you claim to ‘understand you find it hard to admit it’ because you’re the one who’s actually having a hard time admitting that he’s inconsistent, intellectually dishonest, and not to mention grammatically reprehensible.

Go find someone else to project yourself on.
 
seriously have you your own version of what i’m posting. ive never claimed superstision is okay. but i suppose its easier to change what i’m posting than it is to admit when your wrong.
by the the way thing about mattew 10 28 you expanded on it didn’t change the meaning in fact it strenghtened what i was saying fyi.

also wasn’t it you that thought giving satan a capital Him was worshiping him.😊
 
Quoting the Bible doesn’t change reality or the rules of logic. I ask you again, why should I fear someone who has to resort to isolated loony events called ‘demonic occurrences’ when it’s more efficient to just open a rift in space, send in an demon army, and promise power to those who side with him?

If Satan is soooo powerful and feared according to you and your little interpretation of the Bible, then that’s EXACTLY what he ought to be doing.

Oh and FYI?

Read your verses in context:

The passages speak of courage in times of persecution. It deals with nothing on the subject of Satan’s power or whether I should fear him.

You give the Loser Downstairs too much credit.

And I just posted three quotes from the Catechism proving just that. (The fact that you just skipped over them proves who’s really in denial here.) The Church condemns superstition because it’s silly, it’s excessive, and a huge waste of time. Do you disagree with that?

Where am I wrong? Am I wrong to say that my criticism towards superstitious practices is backed by my Catholic belief? Am I wrong to say that Satan is just some spiritual wimp who can barely bend the laws of reality?

It’s obvious that you claim to ‘understand you find it hard to admit it’ because you’re the one who’s actually having a hard time admitting that he’s inconsistent, intellectually dishonest, and not to mention grammatically reprehensible.

Go find someone else to project yourself on.
seriously have you your own version of what i’m posting you go off on loads of tangents nothing to do with my posts. ive never claimed superstision is okay. but i suppose its easier to change what i’m posting than it is to admit when your wrong.
by the the way thing about mattew 10 28 you expanded on it didn’t change the meaning in fact it strenghtened what i was saying fyi.

project on you :rotfl:
it seems your unable to post without insulting. maybe you should stop posting. or read up on forum rules. my limited knowledge tells me this is grammatically wrong as well.
It’s obvious that you claim to ‘understand you find it hard to admit it’ because you’re the one who’s actually having a hard time admitting that he’s inconsistent, intellectually dishonest, and not to mention grammatically reprehensible.
unless your referring to satan:rotfl:
 
ive never claimed superstision is okay.
Yet you botch up my post and boldly claim I am downplaying Satan by saying that the Church backs the position that superstition is ridiculous and frivolous.
by the the way thing about mattew 10 28 you expanded on it didn’t change the meaning in fact it strenghtened what i was saying fyi.
It speaks of persecution. It doesn’t justify your image of Satan being some big, evil boss monster that everybody should be afraid of.
my limited knowledge tells me this is grammatically wrong as well.
Well at least you have the humility to admit you have limited knowledge. 👍

So much for the ‘last word’. :rolleyes:
 
Well at least you have the humility to admit you have limited knowledge
.my grammer and spelling is **** but again humility is christan. see its so easy, try it somtime.
It doesn’t justify your image of Satan being some big, evil boss monster that everybody should be afraid of
. like giving him a caplital H in him
So much for the ‘last word’. :rolleyes:/
decided against it. your posts become so uncharitable and twist so much i have to answer them.
persecution, yes as in don’t fear death, fear losing your soul.
the rest is more **** that at best is a warped view of my posts most are just downright dishonest take of them.while your posts are constantly metamorphosing but i expect that.
 
You have to be careful with some Christian Denomination…If you join there church and leave it, finding out there false, they might bother you at home or at work.
 
.my grammer and spelling is ****
Which explains why you’re also incapable of digesting the words of other people. Now, read the exchange again. And this time, try to realize that you’re sacred view of Satan is flawed.

I’ve cited both the Catechism and Scripture. You reply with nothing but foul temper and bare assertion.
like giving him a caplital H in him
Indeed, why did you do that? A slight typo I hope? You’re lucky I’m not quick to believe in Freudian slips. 👍
decided against it. your posts become so uncharitable and twist so much i have to answer them.
Right, this is coming from someone who demands evidence for a view, denies it’s been given to them (in the form of three Catechism citations and a passage from the Bible in context), and the cries foul and distortion when he’s proven wrong.

Honestly, stop projecting.

If you find facts offensive, then that’s not my problem. Do yourself a favor and cool off.
persecution, yes as in don’t fear death, fear losing your soul.
Yet the only way you’ll ever actually lose your soul is if you’re well, DEAD. Get it now? When it comes to the capacity to kill, I’d wager even donkeys can give you a higher body count.

All Satan and his minions do is possess a few misguided saps, make them spit nails (slowly at that and not at the more dangerous rate of, let’s say, an M-16), and then fly away after a dreary exorcism rite.

Yes Prince of Darkness, that is a veeeeeery strategic battle plan to have as many souls in your little pit. :rolleyes:
 
. Now, read the exchange again. And this time, try to realize that you’re sacred view of Satan is flawed.

:
my sacred view?,says who? why what is my view of satan, you have tried to project my view several times on different issues, as to what you think it is. I have not been foul mouthed nor do I need to calm down. I’m sorry you think I do. I asked for clarification and you went on a rant.
I don’t know why you keep posting that you have to be dead to lose your soul? I’ve never said otherwise. it has never been in contention.
Originally Posted by lost wanderer
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
i guess we need to rewrite the bible then
One problem with that little argument pal: 1. Physical Death----->2. Spiritual Death.
I guess you need to review your Catechism
this is of course where you brought in you need to be dead to go to hell, who knows why?

Never said this, again your twisting.
You might think some folks are hellbound but that’s not up for you to decide.
Originally Posted by Lost Wanderer
Originally Posted by NonServiam
There are no dangers, aside from wasting your time and money on a bunch of nonsense and doing a bunch of goofy things like wearing crystals, lighting candles, calling yourself something ridiculous like “Raven MoonShadow.”
The Church is actually closer to this position than some ‘spiritual warriors’ here would want to admit.
.)
One more time i was asking you to show where the church calls this superstitious not calling on preternatural forces. As in the thread we are discussing. I have never disagreed with the churches view on superstion no matter how many times you post it

your view on satan seems distorted as even Jesus told Peter get behind me satan. was he a poor misguided sap.
Indeed, why did you do that? A slight typo I hope? You’re lucky I’m not quick to believe in Freudian slips
i’m sure i answered this cut and paste from bible off the internet, if your not going to read what i post.🤷
 
Anyway… Back to the actual reason for the thread, Has any of the Christians here ever actualy incountered something occult? Even just used a Ouija board?
 
Anyway… Back to the actual reason for the thread, Has any of the Christians here ever actualy incountered something occult? Even just used a Ouija board?
33 years ago I read tarot cards and used a plain deck of cards to do readings. I quit when I was telling people things about their pasts that I had no way of knowing. It wasn’t a case where I just guessed well. My best friend at the time had what I considered a marriage I would want one day. We would laugh and laugh b/c I started telling her that he was having an affair with a blonde woman at work. After about 3 months she decided to tell him. She was laughing while telling him until she saw him go pale. It turned out it was true. I started having dreams that scared me so much that I threw them away and prayed for forgiveness.
 
I’m sorry you think I do. I asked for clarification and you went on a rant.
You’re the one ranting when I pointed out how you often mutilate other people’s posts and give the most off-the-mark replies.
Never said this, again your twisting.
Again, no. I’m not twisting. It’s only the most logical conclusion to your constant yammering about me downplaying Satan.

I repeat, I’d sooner fear a giant monster that’s rising out of a literal mouth of hell than some obscure spiritual entity who can barely keep up a consistent rate of possession.

I mock Satan for his lack of power over this world. You call it downplaying. I present proof of the contrary. All you do is bring up a quote out of context. (And may I add, it’s the same quote I’ve heard over and over again from the overrated ‘spiritual warfare’ crowd.)

You can’t accuse me of downplaying Satan and then quote a verse that doesn’t even prove otherwise. “Kill the body and the soul in hell.” Uh-huh. Yeah. Sure. Where’s his all powerful demon army then? :rolleyes:
One more time i was asking you to show where the church calls this superstitious not calling on preternatural forces.
And I did, which you ignored and even went as far as to call it downplaying the devil.
As in the thread we are discussing. I have never disagreed with the churches view on superstion no matter how many times you post it
You do disagree if you have a problem with the way the Church agrees with this viewpoint.
… wasting your time and money on a bunch of nonsense and doing a bunch of goofy things like wearing crystals, lighting candles, calling yourself something ridiculous like “Raven MoonShadow.”
your view on satan seems distorted as even Jesus told Peter get behind me satan. was he a poor misguided sap.
Who? Peter? If I remember that situation correctly, yeah Peter was a poor misguided sap.
And so are you if you can’t tell if someone is speaking metaphorically.

Once more, your lack of reading things in context shows you have more in common with fundamentalists than Catholics.
Mathew 16:21-23From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer greatly from the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed and on the third day be raised.
Then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, “God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you.”
He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do.”
So… talk of the preternatural here is… where? :rolleyes:
 
Anyway… Back to the actual reason for the thread, Has any of the Christians here ever actualy incountered something occult? Even just used a Ouija board?
My sister had a cursed doll once actually. She got it as a ‘gift’ from an old housemaid that we had to lay off because she was too deaf.

Creepy stuff happened around it. Never saw it again though, thank goodness.

However, on a macro-level, I can’t say those things aren’t much of a threat. I mean, why don’t we see terrorists hiring mangkukulams and voodoo witch doctors to assassinate folks? A string doll and a bunch of pins sound a lot cheaper than ordering a hit. BP

looks down

So sorry Satan, I’m not superstitious enough to give you the credit you ask for. BP
 
So… talk of the preternatural here is… where? :rolleyes:
There are no dangers, aside from wasting your time and money on a bunch of nonsense and doing a bunch of goofy things like wearing crystals, lighting candles, calling yourself something ridiculous like “Raven MoonShadow.”
The Church is actually closer to this position than some ‘spiritual warriors’ here would want to admit.
Check out the thread title and your remark about spiritual warriors here would want to admit,
Your post infers that the new age occult etc from the thread title is superstition I asked for clarification that the church agrees with you and since then its insult after insult.you can call it superstition if you want,the people involved may feel they are calling on preturnatural forces. Many times I said the superstition angle you offered was out of context of my post but all you wanted to do was talk about mutilating your post and i don’t agree with the church.🤷
no such thing. God bless.
 
Your post infers that the new age occult etc from the thread title is superstition I asked for clarification that the church agrees with you and since then its insult after insult. Many times I said the superstition angle you offered was out of context.
No, it’s not. Stop replying with bare assertion.

Do you disagree with the Church?
2110 The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people. It proscribes superstition and irreligion. Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion; irreligion is the vice contrary by defect to the virtue of religion.
2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.
The bolded portion describes the silliness of the occult veeeery nicely. 👍
 
Okay, Time Out :slapfight:, Take a Deep breath :coolinoff:

Now, I’ve been hesitating getting into this mess, but I can’t leave it anymore, my conscience won’t let me.

//Begin Rant//

Now, looking at occult practices, this section from the catechism is more appropriate:
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
Now onto mocking the devil. That is not a very good idea. We shouldn’t be afraid, but scripture warns us against mocking him:
(Jude 1:9-10) - 9 Not even the archangel Michael, when he was engaged in argument with the devil about the corpse of Moses, dared to denounce him in the language of abuse; all he said was, ‘May the Lord rebuke you.’
10 But these people abuse anything they do not understand; and the only things they do understand – merely by nature like unreasoning animals – will turn out to be fatal to them.
The balance between mocking and fear is illustrated very well in the Catechism:
395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.”
For more information on the Church’s teaching on the New Age, read Jesus Christ The Bearer of the Water of Life.

//END RANT//
 
Anyway… Back to the actual reason for the thread, Has any of the Christians here ever actualy incountered something occult? Even just used a Ouija board?
This thread has gotten quite derailed but perhaps there is hope. I am a reverted Catholic, I left the church in my late teens due to protestant theology then ended up leaving Christianity all together. I still had some belief in Christ but didn’t know nearly as much about him as I do now. I was into the goth and industrial scene for over ten years starting near the end of highschool through college. Almost all the women I’ve dated have been Pagan only one of them was a non practicing Christian. I ended up doing a lot of drugs and experimenting with a lot of Pagan ideas and practices. I went to Burning Man and the one day I was sober I ran off from my fiance at the time that is where I ended up leaving the party climbing over the mountains and having a profound experience with the Christian God, I also had some experiences with the devil tempting me to worship him, and he seemed so strong I could barely resist but the Holy Spirit revealed to me he was there to help me and with his help I drove the devil away. I almost died out there in the middle of the desert from dehydration and the alkalye poisoning from the ground. I found my way to a house in the desert and they called an ambulance and I was in the hospital for seven days. I quit using drugs and alcohol and radically changed my life through my experience and everybody thought I was crazy but this is my testimony. I have left out many details and the only thing I regret is not being able to help my Pagan girlfriend get off drugs because I still love her and pray for her everyday. We were together for another year after that but things didn’t really work out. Other than my loss romantically my life has been so much better since I accepted the Holy Trinity. I am now a knight in the Catholic Church. I do empathize with all the Pagans though because of my experiences but ultimately i came to the conclusion that it wasn’t for me. For a long time I felt like I had lost my identity but I have learned to love the person I have become.

My prayers and love are with you all regardless of religion.

👍
 
Now onto mocking the devil. That is not a very good idea. We shouldn’t be afraid, but scripture warns us against mocking him:
Yet this is the same Bible where another person here quotes justification of such fear:
Matthew 10:28 - And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Setting scripture aside, let’s just look at the facts.

The second citation from the Catechism actually proves that the occult is not as fearsome because of this phrase right here:
even of a physical nature
Seeing as how physical death is necessary for any form of ‘spiritual death’ to occur, the presence of the word ‘even’ in terms of physical harm denotes only stress on the devil’s part. Simply put, for someone who wants to take as many souls into his pit, Satan sure has to put a lot of work into the supernatural department just for one measly soul.

Meanwhile, many religious say that today’s culture is already winning enough souls to his side. Why does he need the supernatural? Therefore, why fear him and give him any credence in that regard?

Of course, every now and then you get a spiritual freak accident because someone thought it funny to play with a Ouija board.

But again, why is such phenomenon not weaponized? If the evil one is so eager to take over the world, why does he not simply charge out the gates of hell with an army of archfiends?

As far as I’m concerned, a few isolated incidents of tampering of the occult is not enough to convince me that the devil is to be feared on the level that ‘spiritual warriors’ suggest. I don’t see the rise of the occult as a threat as the ‘spiritual warriors’ do because a good deal of common sense is enough to avoid its dangers.

It’s also pretty darn stupid (hence, my citations regarding superstition). Much, if not all, occult practices are in fact superstition.
 
The way I see it, all debates I’ve seen on these forums make this one common mistake: it’s on the assumption that it’s only a two-way debate. The truth though is it’s actually three-way. The three contenders are:

1.) Catholicism
2.) Occultism
3.) Atheism

No doubt, I get the feeling there’s influence from the Screwtape Letters in my head as I type this but I also know which ideas are strictly my own conclusions.

As Catholics, we are called to reject both 2 and 3. Atheism denies the spiritual reality whilst occultism attempts to tame the powers of that reality through dangerous means.

However, and this is my own conclusion right here, Catholics are so preoccupied with antagonizing 2 and 3 that they don’t realize that both of them are in complete opposition to each other as well!

Atheism rejects the occult. To the die-hard atheist, New Age, Wicca, and Neo-Paganism are just more branches of the great superstition they call religion.

Now while there are flaws in their materialistic and empirical viewpoint, they make their own strong case against the occult. Evidence supporting the ‘power of the gods’ is no less scrutinized than evidence for our own beliefs.

Yet, these are the same people who many religious claim to be a danger to people’s souls as well. Granted, atheism comes with its own flaws but there is something you might miss here.

How can Satan advocate disbelief in the same era where people are claiming that they are resorting to him? It’s like sucking and blowing at the same time.

You can’t claim that fewer people are believing in God and the devil then at the same time, believe that people are resorting more to the latter. The latter requires belief and therefore, rejects the atheistic premise.

Furthermore, our material reality is by default, closer to our perception than our spiritual reality. The spiritual reality is distant, separated, and otherwordly. We have little to no clue about it. Our knowledge and understanding of the material reality on the other hand is higher. We know why things fall. We know how electricity works. We’ve developed more advanced ways to predict the weather (unlike your local rain dancer :rotfl:).

Let’s face it folks. Supernatural explanations are dying out. Occult practitioners have a lot more to lose on that regard. This is where I bring the Church’s condemnation against superstition. This is one thing that separates us from Occultists. We’re one of the few religions to admit (generally at least) that science plays a significant role in understanding our universe, not the occult. As a result, we’re more open to scientific explanations before supernatural ones (ideally at least, or else Bayside would’ve been an approved apparition). Our Faith also doesn’t depend too much on signs and wonders. Remember Jesus’ words?
John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”
What we’re ignoring here is the fact that maybe, as far as our own reality is concerned, one of our two opponents has a better understanding of how this reality, the material reality, works. Now when people are possessed, what does science see? It just sees someone suffering convulsions and hallucinating episodes.

Secondly, let’s take into consideration a macro-perspective. Is this an epidemic? Do you see people rushing their kids to the hospital? Are these ‘demonic occurrences’ responsible for a major disaster like a city-wide fire?

No matter what you say, the evidence is right there: This is does not happen a lot.

Despite the increasing hostility I’ve observed from ‘spiritual warriors’ towards science, it’s science that’s painting out a clearer picture of the devil’s limits. He may be all powerful in the spiritual reality but in this reality, even some random thug with a knife is more dangerous than he is.

Why? Frankly, the lack of impact he’s been having is minimal. For example, people report demonic occurrences and these occurrences don’t affect anyone beyond the possessed. Once more, the rarity of these cases speaks volumes of how effective it is to demonstrate supernatural demonic power. This is where my little ‘spitting nails’ example comes in. You all know that scene from The Rite? It’s easy to imagine a skeptic asking, if Satan can do that and is so powerful, why can’t he just make the girl spit nails like a lethal projectile?

Another piece of evidence I’ll presence is the existence of organizations like the famous James Randi Foundation. They’ve been in existence since 1996. You think their cash prize challenges only applies to Christian believers? Don’t fool yourself. Other faiths make their own claims as well. So, why haven’t any of them triumphed? Why is James Randi short of a million dollars? If Satan could rule the world through the use of occult power and worshipers, his cult would have a financial backer right there already!

See, unlike us Christians, who are discouraged from monetizing the supernatural, you’d think the embodiment of pure evil would be all about fueling man’s greed. Why aren’t occultists lining up in front of the Foundation’s headquarters and coming home with a cash prize?

As you can see, science covers much knowledge over our reality. When ‘spiritual warriors’ and occultists alike make claims of supernatural phenomenon, they’re basically claiming that the spiritual reality has bent the material to its own whim. Science however, with its knowledge of how our material reality works, just goes to show such occurrences are minimal at best. Negligible. Weak.

Once more, I say: “All fear the dreaded Prince of Darkness. :rolleyes:
 
Yet this is the same Bible where another person here quotes justification of such fear:.

It’s also pretty darn stupid (hence, my citations regarding superstition). Much, if not all, occult practices are in fact superstition.
no all occult practices are in fact superstition, re the cathacism, i knew you didn’t understand what you were quoting. you use superstition from a secular view in your posts, yet the cahacism has a different view.

had you followed forum rules and simply cited what i asked at the start we not have needed so long to clear it up, yet you needed to insult claiming i can’t read so your not going to show the ref.
similar to your use of supernatural, it has a secular meaning and a catholic meaning.
on a catholic forum your use of supernatural gives honour to satan, yet you chide me for giving him a capital H
 
Yet this is the same Bible where another person here quotes justification of such fear:
Actually, that was another point I wanted to address, but it was very late and I needed sleep so I could get to early Mass before it got hot out today.
Matthew 10:28 is not actually referring to the devil. The HE, or in some translations One, is actually referring to God. I did some searching in my commentaries, and the consensus on this passage is that it is saying that we should not be afraid of those on earth who can only kill us, but rather fear (reverence or respect) God, who decides the fate of our immortal souls.
Therefore, as I see it, this verse is not actually applicable to the discussion.
The way I see it, all debates I’ve seen on these forums make this one common mistake: it’s on the assumption that it’s only a two-way debate. The truth though is it’s actually three-way. The three contenders are:

1.) Catholicism
2.) Occultism
3.) Atheism

No doubt, I get the feeling there’s influence from the Screwtape Letters in my head as I type this but I also know which ideas are strictly my own conclusions.

As Catholics, we are called to reject both 2 and 3. Atheism denies the spiritual reality whilst occultism attempts to tame the powers of that reality through dangerous means.

However, and this is my own conclusion right here, Catholics are so preoccupied with antagonizing 2 and 3 that they don’t realize that both of them are in complete opposition to each other as well!

Atheism rejects the occult. To the die-hard atheist, New Age, Wicca, and Neo-Paganism are just more branches of the great superstition they call religion.

Now while there are flaws in their materialistic and empirical viewpoint, they make their own strong case against the occult. Evidence supporting the ‘power of the gods’ is no less scrutinized than evidence for our own beliefs.
Actually, this part I agree with you on 🙂
Yet, these are the same people who many religious claim to be a danger to people’s souls as well. Granted, atheism comes with its own flaws but there is something you might miss here.

How can Satan advocate disbelief in the same era where people are claiming that they are resorting to him? It’s like sucking and blowing at the same time.

You can’t claim that fewer people are believing in God and the devil then at the same time, believe that people are resorting more to the latter. The latter requires belief and therefore, rejects the atheistic premise.

Furthermore, our material reality is by default, closer to our perception than our spiritual reality. The spiritual reality is distant, separated, and otherwordly. We have little to no clue about it. Our knowledge and understanding of the material reality on the other hand is higher. We know why things fall. We know how electricity works. We’ve developed more advanced ways to predict the weather (unlike your local rain dancer :rotfl:).

Let’s face it folks. Supernatural explanations are dying out. Occult practitioners have a lot more to lose on that regard. This is where I bring the Church’s condemnation against superstition. This is one thing that separates us from Occultists. We’re one of the few religions to admit (generally at least) that science plays a significant role in understanding our universe, not the occult. As a result, we’re more open to scientific explanations before supernatural ones (ideally at least, or else Bayside would’ve been an approved apparition). Our Faith also doesn’t depend too much on signs and wonders. Remember Jesus’ words?

What we’re ignoring here is the fact that maybe, as far as our own reality is concerned, one of our two opponents has a better understanding of how this reality, the material reality, works. Now when people are possessed, what does science see? It just sees someone suffering convulsions and hallucinating episodes.

Secondly, let’s take into consideration a macro-perspective. Is this an epidemic? Do you see people rushing their kids to the hospital? Are these ‘demonic occurrences’ responsible for a major disaster like a city-wide fire?

No matter what you say, the evidence is right there: This is does not happen a lot.

Despite the increasing hostility I’ve observed from ‘spiritual warriors’ towards science, it’s science that’s painting out a clearer picture of the devil’s limits. He may be all powerful in the spiritual reality but in this reality, even some random thug with a knife is more dangerous than he is.

Why? Frankly, the lack of impact he’s been having is minimal. For example, people report demonic occurrences and these occurrences don’t affect anyone beyond the possessed. Once more, the rarity of these cases speaks volumes of how effective it is to demonstrate supernatural demonic power. This is where my little ‘spitting nails’ example comes in. You all know that scene from The Rite? It’s easy to imagine a skeptic asking, if Satan can do that and is so powerful, why can’t he just make the girl spit nails like a lethal projectile?

Another piece of evidence I’ll presence is the existence of organizations like the famous James Randi Foundation. They’ve been in existence since 1996. You think their cash prize challenges only applies to Christian believers? Don’t fool yourself. Other faiths make their own claims as well. So, why haven’t any of them triumphed? Why is James Randi short of a million dollars? If Satan could rule the world through the use of occult power and worshipers, his cult would have a financial backer right there already!

See, unlike us Christians, who are discouraged from monetizing the supernatural, you’d think the embodiment of pure evil would be all about fueling man’s greed. Why aren’t occultists lining up in front of the Foundation’s headquarters and coming home with a cash prize?

As you can see, science covers much knowledge over our reality. When ‘spiritual warriors’ and occultists alike make claims of supernatural phenomenon, they’re basically claiming that the spiritual reality has bent the material to its own whim. Science however, with its knowledge of how our material reality works, just goes to show such occurrences are minimal at best. Negligible. Weak.

Once more, I say: “All fear the dreaded Prince of Darkness. :rolleyes:
See, I think that people make two mistakes regarding the devil; either
  1. they believe in him not enough or
  2. they believe in him too much
It’s ridiculous that some people see the devil or demons hiding around every corner. We in our own sin cause enough troubles without Satan having to do anything. We also must remember that God Himself restrains what Satan can do, or we’d all be in a lot of trouble. If you study Scripture, before he fell, Satan was the best and brightest of all the angels, the “Son of the Morning Star.” And let’s face it, angelic beings are way smarter and stronger than us. But again, Jesus defeated Satan, and holds his powers in check, so we have no reason to go around trembling in fear.

I don’t expect that I will convince anyone to change their minds, I only hope to sway the fence sitters who may be lurking. I have spent 20 years of my life vacillating between Christianity and the occult/paganism. All I can say is that I have seen and experienced things that cannot be explained by reason and logic. But then, I’m just a random stranger on the internet, so you really have no reason to trust my personal accounts anyways. That’s why I try to stick with less disputed sources 😉
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top