The Death of Alexander VI is scaring me!

[Image_of_God]

Certainly he was pretty scandalous. A lot of the wikipedia article, however, is rumour and scandalmongering at best, downright malicious at worst, including the account of his death. It’s not at all certain that he died so badly - though to be sure he had a lot of enemies who probably wished he would!

God bless, you’re in my prayers. Say some for yourself, get plenty of rest and exercise, and be sure to see a doctor if you need one.

I don’t think I need a doctor …but I should probably take everything typed to heart. Maybe I should read about the good Popes…like the one I would like to call my favorite saint…Gregory VII?

 

[Sola_Roma]

I think the way he died was intended by God. The fact that his body pretty much exploded into rott and decay is a stark contrast to the undefiled peaceful and incorrupt bodies of Saints.

Alexander VI was a demon in Papal clothing…and it was fitting that his body rotted like that.

Calls to mind King Herod’s death, how he busted into worms.

The unjust decay and wither…

I believe there is a psalm that says how the godly are incorrupt in death and the ungodly wither.

 

[Image_of_God]

I think the way he died was intended by God. The fact that his body pretty much exploded into rott and decay is a stark contrast to the undefiled peaceful and incorrupt bodies of Saints.

Alexander VI was a demon in Papal clothing…and it was fitting that his body rotted like that.

Calls to mind King Herod’s death, how he busted into worms.

The unjust decay and wither…

I believe there is a psalm that says how the godly are incorrupt in death and the ungodly wither.

Alexander did confess his sins…

What about Martyrdom?

 

[LilyM]

I think the way he died was intended by God. The fact that his body pretty much exploded into rott and decay is a stark contrast to the undefiled peaceful and incorrupt bodies of Saints.

Alexander VI was a demon in Papal clothing…and it was fitting that his body rotted like that.

Calls to mind King Herod’s death, how he busted into worms.

The unjust decay and wither…

I believe there is a psalm that says how the godly are incorrupt in death and the ungodly wither.

Boy you’re a bit harsh Sola - remember with what judgment you judge, you yourself shall be judged.

If you hope for mercy and charity from God (and who among us would dare to say that we require less than the utmost of His charity and mercy to save us?) then extend those same courtesies to others.

Ever read about Thomas Beckett’s execution? Pretty gory stuff (so don’t read it OP!) and he certainly didn’t remain incorrupt or undefiled.

 

[Sola_Roma]

Alexander did confess his sins…

What about Martyrdom?

I don’t know if Alexander is in Heaven or Hell…but I know for a fact he wasnt a Martyr.

To be a martyr means to die for the Faith…Alexander VI is in my opinion…hardly Catholic enough to be a Eucharistic Minister.

If he did confess, it could have been mere ceremony to him…I dont doubt that there could have been some kind of conversion at the last minute, but with the way he treated and destroyed the Church at that time…I doubt it.

But if God uses incorrupt bodies as a sign for cannonization…bodies that completely rot in such a way must be some sort of sign for the opposite.

Alexander VI’s rapid decomposition was supernatural…and since I dont believe in paranormal things outside of God’s influence…I believe God did it, and did it justly!

Alexander VI is the most infamous Pope in history…I prefer to just call him Borgia rather than Pope Alexander.

He dishonors Peter’s Chair so much…

 

[Sola_Roma]

Boy you’re a bit harsh Sola - remember with what judgment you judge, you yourself shall be judged.

If you hope for mercy and charity from God (and who among us would dare to say that we require less than the utmost of His charity and mercy to save us?) then extend those same courtesies to others.

Ever read about Thomas Beckett’s execution? Pretty gory stuff (so don’t read it OP!) and he certainly didn’t remain incorrupt or undefiled.

Im not judging Alexander at all…He is after all a baptized Catholic…theres always hope…even for this Pope. (hah…rhymes)

I just think that its more than coincidence that the worst Pope in history merited such a undignified death.

He spent all of his life clothed in luxury and pleasure…its only fitting that his empire be brought down at death.

God may have done it as a sign of warning…after Alexander…maybe the Popes got a little sense knocked into them

For a body to decay at such a rapid pace that the three-layered solid Papal coffin would burst open within hours…I really believe it means something.

Bad apples every once in a while really bring out the sweetness of the good fruit.

When I think about St. Pius X, John Paul the Second, and Pope Benedict XVI…I really see the healing waters of God in action.

Domine, Glorificamus te!

 

[Image_of_God]

Sola, then I’d bet you think that the choosing of St. Charles Romerreo and the elevation of St. Pius V, was part of Divine Providence, like I do. I really do believe that God never let his Church down, even though Satan was attempting to destroy it.

 

[Sola_Roma]

Sola, then I’d bet you think that the choosing of St. Charles Romerreo and the elevation of St. Pius V, was part of Divine Providence, like I do. I really do believe that God never let his Church down, even though Satan was attempting to destroy it.

Yes, of course. God has never and will never allow Satan to destroy the Church.

Glad were on the same page there.

 

[LilyM]

Alexander VI’s rapid decomposition was supernatural…and since I dont believe in paranormal things outside of God’s influence…I believe God did it, and did it justly!

Alexander VI is the most infamous Pope in history…I prefer to just call him Borgia rather than Pope Alexander.

He dishonors Peter’s Chair so much…

Rot and rubbish - he died in the middle of August in Rome. I’ve BEEN in Rome in August - it’s stinking hot enough to make anything decay rapidly. Besides which, he was elderly and probably riddled with disease to begin with, which wouldn’t have helped matters. Or it could indeed have been the effects of poison if he had been poisoned.

All perfectly natural, possibly the result of a dissolute life surrounded by enemies. Supernatural? doubt it.

 

[Image_of_God]

Yes, of course. God has never and will never allow Satan to destroy the Church.

Glad were on the same page there.

I think that is why God permitted Alexander VI and the Rennisance Popes to do the things he did. So that when compared with the Saintly Popes to come, the Church would seem so much brighter.

 

[Image_of_God]

Rot and rubbish - he died in the middle of August in Rome. I’ve BEEN in Rome in August - it’s stinking hot enough to make anything decay rapidly. Besides which, he was elderly and probably riddled with disease to begin with, which wouldn’t have helped matters. Or it could indeed have been the effects of poison if he had been poisoned. Nothing supernatural in it at all.

Actually, I don’t think as harshly as Sola on this , but everything that happens, happens by Divine Providence. Every natural event, is made possible by God’s Divine Prescence. Without Divine Occurance in an activity, the thing would not be.

When you and I walk, we are walking because of Divine Providence. Isn’t great to be part of God’s love? Have you ever read Catherine of Seina?

 

[Sola_Roma]

Rot and rubbish - he died in the middle of August in Rome. I’ve BEEN in Rome in August - it’s stinking hot enough to make anything decay rapidly. Besides which, he was elderly and probably riddled with disease to begin with, which wouldn’t have helped matters. Or it could indeed have been the effects of poison if he had been poisoned. Nothing supernatural in it at all.

I doubt that every single dead person in Rome during the summer would decompose in such a way as to burst open a three-tiered Papal sarcaphogas. (sp) (especially in only 24 hours)

If so…I dont know why theyd bury them at all…warm or not.

Also…poison is out of the picture. There isnt a poison even today…and especially not back then…that could completely swell a body to such an extent the aforementioned sealed coffin would burst in so little time.

Same goes for diseases he might have possessed.

Why are you in so much disfavor for the possibility that Alexander, because of his sins against Mother Church…one of the most disastrous and horrible ones being turning the Apostolic Palace into a Brothel…may have been wrought into decomposition by God?

Its not like God hadn’t done it before…again the Herod example.

 

[LilyM]

Actually, I don’t think as harshly as Sola on this , but everything that happens, happens by Divine Providence. Every natural event, is made possible by God’s Divine Prescence. Without Divine Occurance in an activity, the thing would not be.

When you and I walk, we are walking because of Divine Providence. Isn’t great to be part of God’s love? Have you ever read Catherine of Seina?

Yes, everything that happens, the good and the bad, happens as part of God’s permissive will. I agree 100%. But it’s vanity to imagine that anyone has been specially targeted by Him simply because you particularly disapprove of them.

There are probably millions of equally sinful scoundrels who have died peacefully in their beds.

 

[Image_of_God]

Yes, everything that happens, the good and the bad, happens as part of God’s permissive will. I agree 100%. But it’s vanity to imagine that anyone has been specially targeted by Him simply because you particularly disapprove of them.

There are probably millions of equally sinful scoundrels who have died peacefully in their beds.

You are right. And I would never try to judge Alexander going to hell, although I don’t know whether he is in heaven.

On the contrary, the evil is of God’s permissive will, but the good is of God’s ordaining will.

 

[mommyof4]

You are right. And I would never try to judge Alexander going to hell, although I don’t know whether he is in heaven.

The article did say he went to confession, so there is definitly hope for the guy. Maybe just need a really LLLLOOOONGG time in purgatory???

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

Rot and rubbish - he died in the middle of August in Rome. I’ve BEEN in Rome in August - it’s stinking hot enough to make anything decay rapidly. Besides which, he was elderly and probably riddled with disease to begin with, which wouldn’t have helped matters. Or it could indeed have been the effects of poison if he had been poisoned.

All perfectly natural, possibly the result of a dissolute life surrounded by enemies. Supernatural? doubt it.

That doesn’t make sense. If you’ve read a lot of Papal History (the Borgia Pope tends to take up a lot of pages in those kind of books) the causes of his death…poison or not…could in no way naturally be responsible for the state of his dead body.

Ive seen a Papal Coffin (not the new one instituted by JPII…the old one)

It has three layers…the innermost is wood, the next is a silver-colored metal (I dont know the actually metal…it might be silver but that would be a bit pricey) and the outermost is bronze.

I dont know how much poison theyd have to funnel down his throat in order to bust such a lock overnight.

As for diseases…that must have been one HUGE and extremely rapidly growing tumor…so thats out of the question to…and if that was the case…then it would still be supernatural anyway.

If you read further in the descriptions…a lot of the problems with his body had symbolic meaning.

The sensual windows (his head, eyes, ears, hands, and groin)
were all swollen to a dire extreme…and nothing else afflicted the same way.

Perhaps a symbol of his swollen lust for sensual pleasure?

Ive read a few sources that stated his jewelry and papal regalia also decayed. A ghastly symbol of the fading of worldy power.

It sounds pretty supernatural to me.

And if not…its one darn big coincidence.

 

[Image_of_God]

The article did say he went to confession, so there is definitly hope for the guy. Maybe just need a really LLLLOOOONGG time in purgatory???

Hey, that is alot better than hell. I would prefer that be his fate than hell.

 

[mommyof4]

Hey, that is alot better than hell. I would prefer that be his fate than hell.

I agree!

 

[LilyM]

Why are you in so much disfavor for the possibility that Alexander, because of his sins against Mother Church…one of the most disastrous and horrible ones being turning the Apostolic Palace into a Brothel…may have been wrought into decomposition by God?

Its not like God hadn’t done it before…again the Herod example.

Read my last post - I think it’s vanity and presumption to assume that those ***you ***don’t approve of are equally abhorrent to God, and therefore that anything that goes wrong with them is His chastisement on them.

Do you thoroughly deserve every single good or bad thing that happens to you? Why then must you assume that other people do?

 

[Dale_M]

I hope they are all wrong. They speak horribly about these corrupt Popes. They make the Catholic Church look bad, even though I don’t think it is.

Some of the Renaissance popes were corrupt. Its been said, with a little humor, that the Church’s ability to survive them is proof of its divine support and guidance.

But dang, they did sponsor some pretty impressive art!