The Death of 'Me-Church'

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It could be the website. I’m finding things slow here too.

If you think the author’s point was hair style then you missed it. Please read the following in whole. Here is an exerpt:

“The Cardinals and Bishops members of the Congregation voted almost unanimously in favor of a greater sacrality of the rite, of the recovery of the sense of eucharistic worship, of the recovery of the Latin language in the celebration, and of the remaking of the introductory parts of the Missal in order to put a stop to abuses, wild experimentations, and inappropriate creativity.”

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2009/08/urgent-reform-of-reform-is-in-motion.html

The author’s point is the “Me Generation” litury post Vatican II is dying out with the Age of Aquarius baby boomers… I say good riddance and look forward to a return to our traditional liturgical culture and practice.
 
Ew…this was…painful to read…
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 I mean I have read some of what Steve has written in the past but this really turned me off! I mean I love the TLM and everything...but...why the lack of charity? Maybe they were confused? Maybe it was there first time at a TLM and they were not sure of what to do? I just don't get it.
Once my brother, Dad and I were in a regular NO mass and when everyone knelt for the consecration we were still standing. It was wierd. We always knelt when at mass! We never forgot. But today, all of a sudden, we all just were stuck on some kind of trance in a sense. It was very wierd. We were in the front row by the way so after a while we looked around and were pretty embarrassed. But I think for these two older ladies we ought to assume the best and not judge them. They wre at the TLM so I assume going to mass is important for them? Otherwise if they were part of “me-Church” they wouldn’t have bothered and just gone to some sympathetic pastor’s church.
 
The Death of ‘Me-Church’
by Steve Skojec
8/21/09

Steve Skojec is a columnist and blogger for InsideCatholic.com.

insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6727&Itemid=48
LOVE IT!! I hope you don’t mind if I copy & paste the rest of the article:
In other words, the liturgical experience in which they found themselves was** horizontal-proof. It resists by its very essence all efforts to make it conform to Man. Instead, within its confines, man (or womyn, if you prefer) must conform to God. **
As I watched the priest, his attention turned to the altar and, incidentally, away from their awkward and ineffectual protest, I felt certain that I was at last seeing the death of an ideology that had long outlived its time. The parish was full – not just with gray-haired hangers-on, but with young families teeming with small children, all of whom demonstrated a deep fondness for tradition, ritual, and respectful worship. The visitors’ triumphalistic “We Are Church” mentality was made irrelevant by a more humble, less self-conscious Catholicism. The people around them were far less concerned with having the attention focused on them, and far more concerned with keeping children quiet and well-behaved, and making it through the confession line before Communion time.

This reality is not restricted to the extraordinary form of the Mass, though it finds much substance there. As the Church turns with a view to the past, not just the future, and admits more of its once-abandoned orthodoxy back into its liturgies, the revolutionaries who sought to remake Catholicism are growing old and fading away. The Church is timeless and seems now, at last, to be maturing out of its bi-millennial identity crisis. It is a Catholicism that remembers what it was and where it is going – to Our Father’s house – where the choirs of angels sing not their own praises but His, forever and ever.
There are a couple of women just like this in every parish, these days. I know that some will think the article cruel, but that may be because they have not dealt with these white-haired hippies of the 60’s. They usually have a bit of a masculine appearance & manner, always dress in polyester pants (that stretch tight across thier ample backsides) & a shapeless shirt for Church. They absolutely LOVE the “new” terminology…presider, not priest: gathering space in lieu of vestibule, worship space instead of Sanctuary, etc., etc. & their favorite thing in all the world is serving somewhere inside of the “worship space”. However did the priest keep them away from the altar???

Their day is gone & they haven’t quite faced it yet.:yyeess:
 
I have to agree with the other posters that the tone of this blogger seems inconsistent with Christian charity. For example, " They stood like Amazon warrior priestesses at attention, forming a phalanx to defend the rear guard of fruit-loopy Catholicism’s last hoorah. " This sort of name-calling may appeal to the like-minded, but it does nothing but evoke pity for the target of this venom.

I found the phrase “horizontal-proof” particularly disturbing. The last thing I want is horizontal-proof “me and Jesus got our own thing going” Christianity. I do not think that is what the author meant, but it is misleading.

"It resists by its very essence all efforts to make it conform to Man. Instead, within its confines, man (or womyn, if you prefer) must conform to God. " This denies the beauty of Philippians 2 and the incarnation. God conformed to our image precisely because we could not conform to His. Do all Traditionalist discard St. Paul and his message that we should go to extreme measures for the sake of our brothers, especially when they are weak in Faith. Removing our “horizontal” relationship in the Church will hinder our relationship to God.

These two women, as out of place as they were, still deserved the charity due any stranger in our midst.

Matthew 21: 41 - 45
Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’
45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’
 
If any of this leads to making abortion illegal then I’m for it.

Seems like only a superficial change from reading the OP, but I hope it reaches way deeper. Because I used the word “seems” I meant to imply that sometimes deeper changes are signified by exterior ones. I guess change needs to start in our own hearts.

I do wish the OP had focused more on how the changes will help with increased reverence instead of how these two women comported themselves and how they dressed.

my two cents…
 
It could be the website. I’m finding things slow here too.

If you think the author’s point was hair style then you missed it. Please read the following in whole. Here is an exerpt:

“The Cardinals and Bishops members of the Congregation voted almost unanimously in favor of a greater sacrality of the rite, of the recovery of the sense of eucharistic worship, of the recovery of the Latin language in the celebration, and of the remaking of the introductory parts of the Missal in order to put a stop to abuses, wild experimentations, and inappropriate creativity.”

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2009/08/urgent-reform-of-reform-is-in-motion.html

The author’s point is the “Me Generation” litury post Vatican II is dying out with the Age of Aquarius baby boomers… I say good riddance and look forward to a return to our traditional liturgical culture and practice.
Good morning! I know it was not about the haircuts I was being facetious. I did go & read the article again this morning I also read the comments on that article and some of the reactions were the same as here. His message was lost in his attitude…the picture that came to my mind was a sneering pharasee looking down on another. From his writing it was pretty obvious that yes he did make a judgement based upon their haircuts…he mentions it twice…within a glance he pretty much state they were militant feminists as he continued to mock & derided these women on paper but firstly in Mass…but he couldn’t help himself. Don’t defend that man who wrote that article. He should be fired. As a catholic commentator he is held to a higher standard which he failed miserably…

My point is that he has lost all integrity trying to get his point across in such a manner…that could have been handled so much better with eloquence & panache…if you have to cut another down whether it be a person’s faith, a person etc…then you really don’t have much to begin with and that is not a reflection on the Mass or traditionalists but rather that one man.
 
I think it’s fair comment about what the ladies were actually doing.

If you didn’t know the drill, you’d copy what others were doing. If you were a non-Catholic, you’d just just remain seated. If you were a Catholic and you did know the norm and you persisted in standing up at the consecration, well …

One thing I like about the TLM is that it facilitates leaving your egotism at the door of the church. If you decide to do something individualistic or contrarian, you’re going to be embarassed.
 
pnewton;5606915]I** have to agree with the other posters that the tone of this blogger seems inconsistent with Christian charity.** For example, " They stood like Amazon warrior priestesses at attention, forming a phalanx to defend the rear guard of fruit-loopy Catholicism’s last hoorah. " This sort of name-calling may appeal to the like-minded, but it does nothing but evoke pity for the target of this venom.
We human-beings are so predictible. Here you are criticizing this blogger because he/she criticized a type of woman that he felt was responsible for the feminization of the Catholic Church, amongst other things. Now, here I am about to criticize you because you have judged him. God must laugh a LOT while observing us.

These two hypothetical women (& they are probably just that…hypothetical women that he is using to make a point) are usually priest wannabes, feminists who believe among other things…that one must DO what men DO in order to be “equal” & have done a lot of harm to our Church. They have belittled the nuns, the Catholic women who actually LIKE being women. This doesn’t mean that Christ expects all women to stay home & be proper little housewives. It means that a woman’s femininity should be part of everything she does…be she “simply” a Mom or the chairwomen of the board. OH,oh that remark seems “inconsistent with Christian Charity”. Oh well, Christ knows at least that He won’t need to say to me, “So then, because thou art luke-warm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit thee out of my mouth”. He’ll need to judge me harshly on some things, but not that one.

Here are a few examples of the type of women he speaks about:

***Dominican Sisters Host Lesbian Retreat! A few issues ago we reported on the Dominican Retreat House in McLean, VA hosting a spirituality series with **lesbian partners Mary Hunt and Diane Neu of WATER **Women’s Alliance for Theology, Ethics, and Ritual.

lesfemmes-thetruth.org/v63twilight.html

For many years, **Monika Hellwig **has distinguished herself as one of the leading spokesmen for the “para-magisterium” in the Church, lecturing especially to religious educators, priests, and many adult groups.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=270&CFID=13846475&CFTOKEN=89473858

Then we find "Sister" Joan Chittister Sojourner’s ]Executive Director Jim Wallis was the moderator for several panel discussions at the 2008 Democratic National Convention, including one entitled “How an Obama Administration Will Engage People of Faith.” And among its Contributing Editors, Sojourner lists notorious dissenters Joan Chittister and Rosemary Radford Ruether, **both of whom have been censured by the Vatican./****B]

freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2118151/posts
TI found the phrase “horizontal-proof” particularly disturbing. he last thing I want is horizontal-proof “me and Jesus got our own thing going” Christianity. I do not think that is what the author meant, but it is misleading.
Horizontal-proof is EXACTLY what he/she meant. That simply means that before we can connect to God as a group, we must connect as an individual. If every person at Mass is so deeply involved in worshipping God that he is completely unaware of his surroundings, the person sitting next to him, what he’s wearing, etc., ETC. …only then can the prayer that flows from this congregation be totally vertical. If it doesn’t flow vertically, what good is it?? If you think that this is impossible, come to my parish & attend the TLM. It’s hard, but it happens

" This denies the beauty of Philippians 2 and the incarnation. God conformed to our image precisely because we could not conform to His. Do all Traditionalist discard St. Paul and his message that we should go to extreme measures for the sake of our brothers, especially when they are weak in Faith. Removing our “horizontal” relationship in the Church will hinder our relationship to God. **

The man was not talking about our “relationships in the Church”…but about the Mass.
Your remarks above can only be true if one’s Catholicism starts & ends with Sunday Mass. At Mass we worship GOD. Then we must live “for the sake of our brothers” etc., during the other 167 hrs. each week…The Mass is for God.

Matthew 21: 41 - 45
 
Posting here what I posted there…
If I cannot kneel, what is the next most reverant posture. Is not standing (as the Orthodox do) better than sitting?
Since we know nothing about the women other than that Steve didn’t like their haircuts, why are we presuming eveil motives to them?
Perhaps they did know the Latin responses and weren’t all fired up to hold hands during the Our Father. Since they were women “of a certain age” it’s likely that they learned them long ago.
An elderly woman in pull on pants and with a short haircut is most likely just trying to make life easier on her arthritic joints and for that same reason she’s not likely to be comfortable kneeling.
I think it would behoove us all to follow the adivce in the CCC and not ascribe to malice that which can be explained very easily in charity.
 
I think it’s fair comment about what the ladies were actually doing.

If you didn’t know the drill, you’d copy what others were doing. If you were a non-Catholic, you’d just just remain seated. If you were a Catholic and you did know the norm and you persisted in standing up at the consecration, well …[/qutoe]

Actually, I know a Deacon who does that, and it’s not because he’s in a state of “Me Church” - it’s because he is sincerely under the impression that the Bishop requires it. He is being obedient in the best way he knows how.

Since it’s not my place to correct him, I don’t.

But I can certainly see how these ladies, if they had been taught that the Bishop is requiring standing during the Consecration, might feel that it is better to obey the Bishop than to do whatever everyone else is doing. (St. Ignatius, letter to the Smyrnians, 107 AD).
 
Wow, it seems to me that if anyone is guilty of a “Me-Church” mindset here, it’s the author of this rather self-centered, self-righteous, and overwritten blog article who appears to have spent the bulk of time at Mass in judgmental search of material to write about, and not so much in the act of divine worship. Or maybe I didn’t get the memo that attendees at the TLM get to judge others by their hairstyles.
Huh.

And here I thought it was pretty funny. 😉 Note, if you had paid attention to the author’s emphasis, the issue had nothing to do with the womens’ hairstyles, and everything to do with their desire (albeit a futile one) to intentionally disrupt the Mass.

(I had a very similar experience last year - except that the women involved marched out in protest right before the consecration).

The ultimate point of the article is very good, and I think the author is spot-on about the nature of the TLM being, in itself, a protection against silly “protests” like that.
 
Wow, it seems to me that if anyone is guilty of a “Me-Church” mindset here, it’s the author of this rather self-centered, self-righteous, and overwritten blog article who appears to have spent the bulk of time at Mass in judgmental search of material to write about, and not so much in the act of divine worship. Or maybe I didn’t get the memo that attendees at the TLM get to judge others by their hairstyles.
My sentiments exactly, and this is one of the things I often find off-putting about all too many traditionalists: they can be just as shallow as the people they judge based on their appearances. Sad to say, I love the Latin Mass, and this is the price I have to pay.
 
The man was not talking about our “relationships in the Church”…but about the Mass.
Your remarks above can only be true if one’s Catholicism starts & ends with Sunday Mass. At Mass we worship GOD. Then we must live “for the sake of our brothers” etc., during the other 167 hrs. each week…The Mass is for God.
Likewise, it can only be false if, in some strange twist of irony, or Catholicism ends when Mass begins. Mass is the representation of Calvary. Jesus did not die for Himself. He does not give us His body and blood today for Himself. Mass has always been *communal *worship. The idea zero horizontal element to Mass is a backlash against what has been called here the “Me-Church” and elsewhere has been given other names. Names-calling does not make good arguement though. Rejection of communal worship completely is just as wrong as making the focus mosthly on each other.

Yes, we are there to adore and worship our saviour as a primary function and to secondarily receive grace. However, this focus should never negate the communal aspect of worship completely just because we see it out of balance.
 
QUOTE=pnewton;5608865]Likewise, it can only be false if, in some strange twist of irony, or Catholicism ends when Mass begins. Mass is the representation of Calvary. Jesus did not die for Himself. He does not give us His body and blood today for Himself. Mass has always been *communal *worship.
No, it hasn’t. By the seventh century monastic priests began to simply celebrate Private Masses daily. They usually celebrated them at the side altars, in a low voice and regardless of the presence of a congregation or religious community. These Masses were celebrated because the priests were concerned with their own salvation. They regarded the Mass as the most effective means to gain personal sanctity and a guarantee of salvation. IOW., the Mass is an entity in itself. We can neither add anything or in any way make it “better” by our presence.

In the 16th century, the Protestant Reformers expressed opposition to any Mass without a congregation, preferring to stress the communal character of Christian worship. Luther drew on Scripture to justify this opposition: “The closer and more similar a Mass is to the first Mass which Christ celebrated at the Last Supper, the more Christian it is.”

In turn, the Council of Trent defended the practice of holding Private Masses or concelebrating at another priest’s Mass & this teaching remained up to the time of Vatican II.

Actually, it still remains but has a different title. With the reform of the Roman Missal following Vatican II, a new rite was introduced called** Mass without a Congregation**, replacing that of Private Mass. Some prayers were added, some subtracted. However, since Christ said, "I say to you, if **two of you **agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father. “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

Notice that He didn’t say where 200 or 300 are gathered, though I think a large congregation celebrating together is the best way.

The Mass is a renewal of Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross & it is pleasing to Him, with or without a congregation. It is as valid, it’s grace as efficacious whether the priest & server are alone or surrounded by hundreds of people.

The concept of the Mass being the renewal of Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross is important if we are to understand why the Mass is called a “memorial.” It is not a memorial in the sense that we commemorate the death of the unknown soldier, or even the death of a loved one. This is the Protestant view, namely, that the Mass is a “memorial” of the historical Crucifixion.

Rather, the mass is a memorial in the sense that it “recalls to mind,” a recollection of something that has **a self-existing, everlasting and eternal reality of its own **in heaven. It is in this manner that the Mass makes present once again what happened at Calvary and what is occurring eternally and perpetually in Heaven.
The idea zero horizontal element to Mass is a backlash against what has been called here the “Me-Church” and elsewhere has been given other names. Names-calling does not make good arguement though. Rejection of communal worship completely is just as wrong as making the focus mosthly on each other.
I have said nothing about a “zero horizontal element”. I have explained that the **primary **function of the Mass is NOT the “community”, it is the Sacrifice. It’s secondary benefit is the grace received by any & all who assist.
Yes, we are there to adore and worship our saviour as a primary function and to secondarily receive grace. However, this focus should never negate the communal aspect of worship completely just because we see it out of balance.
IMO., the “communal aspect” has been out of balance. It has nothing to do with “how we see it”…& everything to do with the fact that the Sacrifice has been given the secondary spot & the “communal meal” has been relegated to the primary.
 
I really don’t understand this thread at all. There is something wrong with the tone of the writer. What point was he making which relates to the love of Christ? ‘Me-Church’?
 
I was going to reply to this post then decided not to because we are supposed to show charity in our replies and I thought that may not be possible. I have spent a little time thinking and now feel that I can reply to some of the previous posters.
Some have posted “When In Rome do as the Roman do”. That is fine except when Rome is the Holy Roman Catholic Church. When this is the case we do what we are instructed to do, for example We Kneel at the Consecration, This is Truly Jesus present with us. Standing or sitting for able bodied persons is not respectful at all. Just do what you are supposed to . Is it that hard?
 
I have said nothing about a “zero horizontal element”. I have explained that the **primary **function of the Mass is NOT the “community”, it is the Sacrifice. It’s secondary benefit is the grace received by any & all who assist.
Then maybe we are just talking past each other. “Zero horizontal element” is what I take from “horizontal-proof.” I simply agree with most of what you say, including the fact that I forgot about the priest and religious who do say private Mass as a devotion. In my defense, I have met some that truly believe (or have said) that Mass is *soley *about the individual and God. I even read in Cardinal Ratzinger’s book that the Mass today was partly ordered to help correct this misunderstanding.

I do not doubt that some have seized on the changes to make the community the primary focus, but they are simply wrong.
 
Wow, comments like that are precisely why I wonder if I should ever dare enter a TLM. I was thinking of it, but I have short hair, I don’t dress to the nines (since I don’t have a job that requires me to…my sons have never worn suits, and neither did Jesus, come to think about it), and I have never spoken Latin in my life. Those women might have gone to the mass to see what it was like, but if most people who attend such masses are as uncharitable as this writer appears to be, then no doubt they did not feel welcome and will never return.
Your sons have never worn a suit? What a shame. Let me ask you this, would you dress like a slob at a high priced posh restaurant? And so what is the people in Christs time did not wear suits. Ever hear of dressing modestly?
 
Your sons have never worn a suit? What a shame. Let me ask you this, would you dress like a slob at a high priced posh restaurant? And so what is the people in Christs time did not wear suits. Ever hear of dressing modestly?
Oh MY! That was rude! So there is nothing between wearing a suit and being a slob or immodest?

Many boys will have had no reason to wear a suit–slacks and a dress shirt are acceptable for any Mass. And probably any resturant for a boy. :rolleyes:

A woman can be perfectly modest and even well dressed without being “dressed to the nines” as she described. I’m sure there are plenty of women at the EF Mass you attend who are not wearing a dress suit, high heels, and stockings which is what I’m sure she was thinking of.

Ailina,
What you wear to work will probably be very appropriate for an EF Mass. And bring your sons in khakis and polos and they’ll be fine also! :hug3:
 
I’m really glad that when I went to my first TLM, and looked like I was new to the experience, people welcomed me, made sure I knew where to find the Missals, and coached me on what was going on, instead of smirking at me from behind and writing articles making fun of me. :rolleyes:
I was hoping this was the normal response people would get. I attend only the TLM and always feel a desire to help those who seem lost and try to talk to them afterward. Usually, though I notice they leave as quickly as possible and it takes me a while to get me and my son put together enough to find them. I also worry that they will feel I’m being intrusive if I try to help.
Maybe I worry too much:rolleyes:
 
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