The Death Penalty

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allisonP:
Is she in accord with the church?
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Based on what I quoted from the USCCB, I think her actions are completely in accord with the Church teaching of the death penalty.
 
She is in accord with the Church…and those who decide to support the Death penalty are in accord with the Church.
 
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Catholic2003:
Based on what I quoted from the USCCB, I think her actions are completely in accord with the Church teaching of the death penalty.
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She is entitled to her opinion. And she didnt claim she was speaking for the Church.

I was opposed to the execution of Tookie too but , unlike many of her compatriots, I believe he was a despicable human being who had no redeeming characteristics. I dont recall seeings her or Bianca Jagger or Jesses jackson the night they executed Karla Faye Tucker-a convcited killer who really did turn her life around while on death row. But then she was white and a born again Christian so we instead had Jerry Falwell and a host of other preachers and right wing celebrities who generally SUPPORT the death penalty there.

I was also present the night they executed Gary Graham in Huntsville Texas and we had the usual suspect there-Jackson, Jagger ,et al crying crocodile tears for a cop killing rapist(I opposed his execution too, BTW). A week later when they executed a poor hispanic who got on the wrong side of a drug deal gone bad they were noticeably absent. There were about a dozen of us there in silent protest. As much as I abhor the death penatly i despise the celebrity ghouls who show up only when the cameras are rolling. I am not, BTW, refering to the Sister who’s quote we are discussing. She is truly commited to the cause.
 
I was wondering about this…I had a friend watching the television that night who made the comment, “Doesn’t Bianca have anything else to do anymore?” meaning that the newsmedia ignored those (like estesbob) who are truly committed to the cause of ending the Death Penalty regardless of the recipient.

While I am still praying about this issue, and have not yet come to a definite conclusion (I find myself taking everything on a case-by-case basis), I deeply admire those who are there even when the TV cameras are not…God bless you.
 
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Sherlock:
This is news to me—care to cite the Catechism paragraph wherein it states that the “life and comfort of the body” is paramount?
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Liberal friend said “many in the church” believe that way. He wasn’t approving of the view. Sheesh, I just dropped in here and figured that out…
 
Jaypeeto:
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Jaypeeto3:
Actually, any claim that the death penalty is opposed to the laws of God, or is in any way presumptuous or sinful, is heresy, no matter who makes it.
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There is much more involved than just saying it before it can be applied, an effective heresy must come from the heart, and have intent to schism. Such Non De-Fide opinions are classified at the most Sententia Pia, and at the least Opinio Tolerata, especially since the author does not seek a podium, has not the intent to defraud, but conveys in the spirit of the Faith at least by desire.

But as an aside, I question if the intentional zeal to automatically label anyone, in such a serious accusation without a careful hearing and study, is considered in spirit against the basic foundational precepts of Catholic dogma as pertains to charity.
That being said, recent statements by John Paul II and most bishops request that the death penalty not be used in modern society unless it absolutely cannot be avoided.
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I think the misgivings of Peter’s Heir are close enough to Spiritual Inspiration for Catholics to at least adopt the principle of mercy, especially since new findings through DNA have revealed the innocent were also executed.

ref: Death Penalty, Pope John Paul II’s The Gospel of Life (Evangelium Vitae).

There is more to gain to keeping them alive than for them to be dead.

Andy
 
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DreadVandal:
Statements made by the USCCB are not authoritative Church teaching. The USCCB has no legitimate magisterial authority; thank God!
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Then how about the Catechism of the Catholic Church as quoted in the first reply here?

The teaching is quite clear. The death penalty should only be applied when required for public safety. Not for deterence, not for (human) justice because the person deserved it, not to make the victims feel better, … nothing.

I don’t see Jesus as the kind to “pull the switch.”

What was his take on capital punishment? “Let him without sin cast the first stone…”
 
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FutureSaint:
The Church’s stance boils down to this:
Killing of another person is only allowed in self-defense.
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This is incorrect. Prior to 1960 this opinion would never have been viewed by a Catholic…oh the joys of modern liberalism.

Capital punishment has always [prior to the 1960s]been understood by God and His Church to be a valid form of justice not just self-defence.
 
liberal friend:
This is incorrect.
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I am merely following the current Catechism of the Catholic Church. To enlighten me, perhaps you would be kind enough to produce some official Church documents for reading material to further your argument of the Church advocating the killing of guilty prisoners in the name of justice. Or perhaps your opinion simply reflects the interpretation of those around you at the time.
 
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FutureSaint:
I am merely following the current Catechism of the Catholic Church. To enlighten me, perhaps you would be kind enough to produce some official Church documents for reading material to further your argument of the Church advocating the killing of guilty prisoners in the name of justice. Or perhaps your opinion simply reflects the interpretation of those around you at the time.
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The Church allows for the Death Penalty-always has. I wish it were not true but it is. And you and i can quote all the opinions of Bishops, Clergy and Popes etc we want and it will not change the teachings of the Church.
 
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estesbob:
The Church allows for the Death Penalty-always has.
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I also agree that this is true, and I don’t think a single person here has said otherwise. I just question that its use is permitted as broadly as some here claim.
 
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Athrond:
The death penalty has many problems. One is this; The courts are not perfect and it occationally kills innocent people.

Athrond
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This is not true. There has yet to be one case where an executed person was found to have been innocent. This false claim is based on the fact that some people have been found innocent while on death row which is exactly why the appeal process is so long and thorough. The fact that the system is working as designed and preventing innocent people from being executed does not make it correct to assume that the system is missing just as many innocent people as it finds.
 
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thistle:
In the 25 countries of the European Union the death penalty has been abolished.
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Yes, and in many of the 25 countries of the European Union people are regularly thrown in jail for years for simply saying something that the government does not like to hear. In many of the 25 countries of the European Union the people pay more than 50% of their income in taxes. Many of the 25 countries of the European Union are socialist.

I do not consider the European Union as a good example to follow, they are more of a “don’t let this happen to you”.
 
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FutureSaint:
I am merely following the current Catechism of the Catholic Church. To enlighten me, perhaps you would be kind enough to produce some official Church documents for reading material to further your argument of the Church advocating the killing of guilty prisoners in the name of justice. Or perhaps your opinion simply reflects the interpretation of those around you at the time.
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Just look at the first reply to this thread. The document you seek is there.
 
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2shelbys:
Just look at the first reply to this thread. The document you seek is there.
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You mean this part:

the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.”

I’m sorry, regardless of anyone’s beliefs here, the position of the Church is quite clear. While the death penalty is permitted in cases where it is required for public safety, these instances “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.”

This is in the official CATECHISM of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. If you choose to disregard this document, that is your business, but what you believe is NOT following the position of the Catholic Church.

I’m done with this thread. This is the last place I’d expect to see these arguments.
 
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FutureSaint:
You mean this part:

the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.”

I’m sorry, regardless of anyone’s beliefs here, the position of the Church is quite clear. While the death penalty is permitted in cases where it is required for public safety, these instances "are

This is in the official CATECHISM of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. If you choose to disregard this document, that is your business, but what you believe is NOT following the position of the Catholic Church.

I’m done with this thread. This is the last place I’d expect to see these arguments.
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So, someone who points the Catechism out to you is ignoring it?
And just who are you to violate forum rules and decide what anyone else is thinking or believes? The undeniable fact is that the Church does recognize and acknowledge that there are certain rare instances when the use of the death penalty is justified. I agree with them that those instances are exceedingly rare but judging by your comments you seem to want to believe quite incorrectly that “very rare, if not practically nonexistent” means they oppose it in all cases which is CLEARLY not the case. This is one of the issues where the Church recognizes and allows a difference of opinion and it is not up to you to decide who is and is not “following the position of the Catholic Church”. Your last statement: “This is the last place I’d expect to see these arguments” which implies that somehow those who do not agree with you are not Catholic is rude, arrogant, and exactly the kind of comment that will get you suspended if you keep it up.
 
I am against the death penalty strongly. But on the other hand, as Thomas Fuller once said, ‘he that spares the bad, injures the good’.
 
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2shelbys:
Yes, and in many of the 25 countries of the European Union people are regularly thrown in jail for years for simply saying something that the government does not like to hear. In many of the 25 countries of the European Union the people pay more than 50% of their income in taxes. Many of the 25 countries of the European Union are socialist.

I do not consider the European Union as a good example to follow, they are more of a “don’t let this happen to you”.
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Some evidence of the first claim please?

Seems to me that imprisoning people without just cause is a trend of wich USA is a strong proponent, atleast in later years…

Athrond
 
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Athrond:
Seems to me that imprisoning people without just cause is a trend of wich USA is a strong proponent, atleast in later years…

Athrond
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We have just cause, please state specific examples along with the circumstances of their detention.
 
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