The deaths of the Egyptian fristborns

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This thread is moving too fast; it`s impossible to keep up!

These following comments are not aimed at all atheists and agnostics, but only at those who
are determined to mouth off their venomous hatred of, and contempt for, all things Christian.
The increase in its ferocity in recent years smacks of the demonic. There are plenty of
atheists who are quite happy with “live and let live”, and will even debate in a civilised way.
None of that sickening air of smug intellectual superiority. The Dawkins mentality.

The nerve of one of these gatecrashers to say: “I`m here to broaden perspectives…”!
Says a lot about HIS character and arrogance…and just how shrivelled his own perspect-
ives are…

Its obviously impossible to explain to an atheist that every time we sin, we damage our- selves, we damage others, we damage the whole of Creation. Right from the start, weve
been the cause of our own woes.

When Mary died, we can be certain that her death was peaceful and painless (Im not disputing her Assumption!). To ease the heartache of these two softhearted atheist/ agnostics, it would have been the same with the Egyptian infants amd older struckdown innocents. Their IMMORTAL souls would not have suffered after they died. The whole lot probably died in the same manner. Lets hope these two will now put away their
hankies until their next stint outside an abortuary.

Regarding atrocities committed in the name of God, the sins of individuals can`t be used
to brand the whole organisation. Judas was the first traitor, but certainly not the last.

Man is made in God`s image and likeness. The common atheist idea of the ideal “God”
as being some sort of blubbering boob is perverse.

Keep the banner raised, fellow Christians! Proclaim the Gospel of Truth, against the “gos-
pel” of ultimate nothingness.
Sometimes, we have to fight fire with fire; each of us has only two cheeks.

PS: We can read a lot of the “Mind of God” through the actions of our Lord on this Earth.
 
SunnaB16 said:
These following comments are not aimed at all atheists and agnostics, but only at those who
are determined to mouth off their venomous hatred of, and contempt for, all things Christian…The nerve of one of these gatecrashers to say: “I`m here to broaden perspectives…”!
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…And so on and so forth. There’s no need for you to beat around the bush here; you are directing these statements at me. Are you so pompous that you can’t address me directly?

In any case, I find the idea of broadening perspectives to be not only innocuous, but beneficial. When I talk with someone, I want to learn something, to experience something new, to see things differently, etc., so that when I eventually return to my original perspective, which may or may not change due to incoming knowledge, I can come back to it wiser than before.

But many here recoil when they’re forced to think, so I understand why they perceive something like this as threatening. After all, ignorance is the foundation of innocence, and when you learn that you’ve been doing wrong, you might just become guilty of something.
Says a lot about HIS character and arrogance…and just how shrivelled his own perspectives are…
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Indirect references, snide remarks, projections, paranoia; you’re full of problems, aren’t you? What’s worse, you’re full of problems that you refuse to recognize. I won’t lie: I love to win arguments, I love to meet outrageous characters, and I love to go to forums because of it. I also want to help people, and I want to avoid logical pitfalls because being logical makes life easier for myself and others. I recognize the positive and negative qualities I have, and so I don’t project very often, as you’re doing now.
The common atheist idea of the ideal “God” as being some sort of blubbering boob is perverse.
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That’s our common idea of what he would be like, but not our common ideal. The ideal God, in my opinion, would be a deity who uses the infinite qualities you ascribe to him; a deity who uses his omniscience to foresee future problems with his creation; a deity who uses his omnipotence to prevent foreseen problems. Is that too much to ask? Surely if a human wielded such power, you would never let him hear the end of your complaints if he grew so lax with his work.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
Pharaoh had a lot of warning. There were ten plagues, and God didn’t carry out his threat till Pharaoh had set his mind in concrete. And even then he still chased the Israelites once he’d settled down. As leader he’s responsible for what happens to his people.

God’s not soft. I sometimes think He sent the SE Asian Tsunami five years ago yesterday to stop a lot of the violence that was going on - in Aceh, in Sri Lanka etc. The number of people killed in the tsunami was around 230,000 so I believe.

For a while it did stop the violence. But human nature being what it is, it eventually flared up again, although I think the worst of the violence in Aceh has not resumed.

The record is there, whether we like it or not. There are times, even as a Christian, when I don’t like God much. But I do know that He’s not soft. All the talk about Heaven, and it’s counterpart of Hell, is not fiction.

Atheists expect God to be some sort of grandfather if He’s there at all. He’s there, and He’s the author of the human family, the gentle butterfly, the beautiful sunset and the balmy day at the beach. He’s also the author of the black hole, the cyclone and hurricane, the earthquake and the tsunami, the crocodile and the stonefish, and everything else.

There are two sides to Him, includng a formidable wrath.
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Bob,

If you read the narrative God “hardened his heart”. God made it so that nothing would get through to Pharaoh. His free will was removed.
 
Oreoracle said:
.That’s our common idea of what he would be like, but not our common ideal. The ideal God, in my opinion, would be a deity who uses the infinite qualities you ascribe to him; a deity who uses his omniscience to foresee future problems with his creation; a deity who uses his omnipotence to prevent foreseen problems. Is that too much to ask? Surely if a human wielded such power, you would never let him hear the end of your complaints if he grew so lax with his work.
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Actually, as a professed Atheist, your opinion of what God should be like…doesn’t count…
 
Oreoracle:
your air of smug superiority is stlll there for all to see, isn`t it!

If you had bothered to absorb the first line of the post, you would have seen that I was
having trouble with the movement of the thread. At the time of submitting that post,
I didnt realise that your mate had long gone. If I had realised it, I certainly would have mentioned you by name. SO, CONSIDER IT DONE, AS OF NOW!!!. Its a pity we
dont have the same liberty to utter our convictions as they have on Damian Thompson,s Holy Smoke threads. If that were the case, Id give you the sort of serve you deserve.

“I love to win arguments…”. Your ego again. You wont trounce us, not because of our individual abilities, but because of the Church with Her 2000 years of Wisdom. But thats beyond your comprehension.

Re snide remarks, look over your own posts.

Anyway, continue to enjoy the prospect of total annihilation at the end of your life. As
children of God, we have something to look forward to, as long as we stick with it.

Sorry, fellow Christians. I only hope that I haven`t overstepped the mark, but enough
is enough.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Using the “special knowledge” argument kimmielittle?

What a cop out.
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Hiyas:)

Actually, that never crossed my mind.

I was merely pointing out his usage of logic. He is quick to use terms like "you can’t have it both ways’’…

Thank you for pointing it out…I can see where it would work effectively with those who care nothing …but for arguments sake.

Do you really think he cared about enlightening us?
Do you really think he’s 16?

I hope this helps
 
SunnaB16 said:
Oreoracle:
your air of smug superiority is stlll there for all to see, isn`t it!

If you had bothered to absorb the first line of the post, you would have seen that I was
having trouble with the movement of the thread. At the time of submitting that post,
I didnt realise that your mate had long gone. If I had realised it, I certainly would have mentioned you by name. SO, CONSIDER IT DONE, AS OF NOW!!!. Its a pity we
dont have the same liberty to utter our convictions as they have on Damian Thompson,s Holy Smoke threads. If that were the case, Id give you the sort of serve you deserve.

“I love to win arguments…”. Your ego again. You wont trounce us, not because of our individual abilities, but because of the Church with Her 2000 years of Wisdom. But thats beyond your comprehension.

Re snide remarks, look over your own posts.

Anyway, continue to enjoy the prospect of total annihilation at the end of your life. As
children of God, we have something to look forward to, as long as we stick with it.

Sorry, fellow Christians. I only hope that I haven`t overstepped the mark, but enough
is enough.
Click to expand...
Hiyas:)

As far as I’m concerned…no apology necessary, on your part.

Those that are quick to call believers, 'gullible " …“blind followers”…etc for the sake of “win”…and those who defend those who use such tactics… IMHO…need to revisit gullibility.

IMHO: Those who need to demean others to make a point are not in control of logic.

As always, just my thoughts
 
Oreoracle said:
In general, something is ironic when it’s the opposite of what you’d expect. For how certain you seem, it’s unexpected that your own argument (or rather, assertion) would be more effective against your position than your opponent’s.
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Well, I disagree with your assessment that my assertion (because it certainly was not intended to be an argument) is more effective against my position. It is really equally effective both ways. But it depends on the underlying world-view. Unfortunately, that’s what alot of this stuff comes down to. If some underlying assumptions are rejected out-of-hand, then the correct conclusion will never be reached.

And, since I knew this to begin with, there is no irony.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Bob,

If you read the narrative God “hardened his heart”. God made it so that nothing would get through to Pharaoh. His free will was removed.
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Actually, if you read the narrative, you would see that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart four times, four times Pharaoh’s “heart was hardened”, and twice “Pharaoh hardened his heart”.

The cycle is the same each time. Moses gives a plague, Pharaoh’s heart softens, he says the Israelites can go, the plague stops, Pharaoh heart hardens. But the key is that his heart started off hard. God is not directly responsible for the re-hardening of Pharaoh’s heart, because that’s how it usually is. Even in the four plagues where it says God hardened his heart, God did it for three of them by lifting the plague, and in the 10th plague, by making the plague such that Pharaoh would naturally want revenge. Pharaoh’s heart was not hardened by any supernatural means.
 
SunnaB16 said:
If you had bothered to absorb the first line of the post, you would have seen that I was having trouble with the movement of the thread. At the time of submitting that post,
I didn`t realise that your mate had long gone. If I had realised it, I certainly would have
mentioned you by name. SO, CONSIDER IT DONE, AS OF NOW!!!.
Click to expand...
Haha. No need to shout, dude.
Its a pity we dont have the same liberty to utter our convictions as they have on Damian Thompson,s Holy Smoke threads. If that were the case, I`d give you the sort of serve you deserve.
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While you can’t say much on these forums, there isn’t any censorship involved with private messaging. In fact, if you don’t want your fellows to think you’re stepping over any lines or anything, messaging me would be the ideal thing to do. That way, you can offend precisely who you intend to offend without doing anything socially awkward. So by all means, give me what I deserve, big shot. I’ll be waiting. 👍
“I love to win arguments…”. Your ego again.
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I’m just being honest. We all love to win, some more than others. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. Saying you have never done something for the sake of winning, at least a little bit, is like saying you’ve never had lustful thoughts. Despite what Christians think, it’s not something you can just “get over” or “reject.” You can override those desires, but often only with desires that are even more dangerous.
Anyway, continue to enjoy the prospect of total annihilation at the end of your life. As children of God, we have something to look forward to, as long as we stick with it.
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Acting as though I enjoy not believing in an afterlife is cruel of you. But I can’t believe in something simply because I want to. Grow up. :tsktsk:
 
StrawberryJam said:
Using the “special knowledge” argument kimmielittle?

What a cop out.
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No, Kimmie’s point is that the typical atheist view of what God “should have done” is create a race of robots. They fail to see that free will is a loving gift because it allows love to be given back to the Creator. They also fail to see that God has given us example after example of how to live, even coming to Earth himself and showing us how to lay down our lives for our neighbours.
 
kimmielittle said:
Thank you for pointing it out…I can see where it would work effectively with those who care nothing …but for arguments sake.

Do you really think he cared about enlightening us?
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This is a popular tactic I see from the religious all the time: “He doesn’t care about the truth, therefore he can’t discover it.” However, if it is true that I only care about winning, and it certainly isn’t, then knowing the truth is instrumental to winning arguments, so I must care for it to some extent.

Anyway, if I had to choose between loving winning and loving a certain outcome I have faith in, I would rather love winning. At the very least, I won’t be afraid to deny something that isn’t likely given the evidence, i.e., I won’t be religious. If the world were filled with arrogant intellectuals, then at least we would have progress. If we only had passionate superstitious sheep, then we’d still be in the Dark Ages.
Do you really think he’s 16?
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How old do you think I am?
 
Spirithound said:
What do we say when a loved one dies at age 83? “God has called him home”.

I wasn’t intending to speak of hell…
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I don’t think allowing natural death is the philosophical equivilent of the affirmative mass murder of Egyptian infants, do you? Such an act of vengance is a very human like act, which is one more reason we can be assured the story was invented by humans 🙂
 
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