'The Demise of Guys': How video games and porn are ruining a generation

[Nine_Two]

On the video game issue, I expected blowback from the “I’ve been playing video games for years and I’m perfectly normal” crowd. Heck, I’ve played video games for years and I consider myself to be pretty normal. Some studies have shown that video games cause an increase in aggressiveness, and other studies have shown that they don’t. I’m not looking to belabor that issue here - what fascinated me more was the notion of video games providing that neurochemical high that is so often associated with addiction.

As I have already said, studies consistently show that violent media cause an increase in aggressiveness. I’ve never seen a study that doesn’t show an increase in aggression after exposure to violent media, I’d love to see one if you have to show it, to show just how fuzzy things are. As I said, it is an area of academic interest to me. Either way the point is that by saying “violent video games” rather than “violent media” cause aggression, the guy is fudging the data.

As far as the poster who decided to pan the article after reading “Breivik, who “trained” on Call of Duty,” I think there’s an important distinction to be drawn here. This isn’t like Columbine, where friends and family said “Oh, yeah, those kids were always playing violent video games…must be why they decided to get a bunch of guns and kill people”…he actually testified that he used that as a method of “training.” Unless his weird political agenda includes a hatred for video games such that he would seek to discredit them, why would you dismiss this out of hand? The guy said he used a video game to train for his psychotic killing spree. I think there’s something to that.

I take it you have never played any of the Call of Duty games before. They are arcade shooters, not simulations. About the only thing it could ever help you with is teaching you how to lead a target. It would be like using the original Donkey Kong to train oneself how to climb girders.
Breivik can claim what he wants, but using the testimony of a delusional possibly psychopathic lunatic, does not make your case.

 

[lerapt78]

Another useless article that confuses the effect with the cause. Men turn to video games and sports because they are not allowed to act manly in the public sphere anymore.

Example: Some guy blares his radio on your street at midnight for a long time. ** In the olden days, a real man would have gone out and told him to turn that garbage off. ** If the offender didn’t comply, a real man would have wrecked the car radio. If that didn’t work, you would wreck the selfish guy blaring the radio. And the neighborhood would have thanked you. The police would have turned a blind eye.

Today, you’d be sued into bankruptcy, thrown in jail, and called a caveman. The guy blaring the radio would be left alone free to stick it to those trying to sleep (and God forbid if he is black because then you would be racist for correcting him). And we call this justice and civility. You’re supposed to cower in your home while the “authorities” do nothing.

This pretty much castrates manhood and the natural inclination of men toward fighting evil.

I could explain why this is the way things are, but I suspect the posters railing against my example will provide more than enough evidence of how weak, twisted, and rotten the entire culture has become.

So what is left for men? We take solace in things like sports and video games where we can at least freely simulate the conflict over an enemy, rival, or villain.

Porn is a separate matter dealing with the total rejection of family and collapse of sexual mores. It affects men and women.

Much truth in this (bolded emphasis mine)

When men are forbidden to be men in the public square, we go to places where our masculinity is valued. Hence, the allure of the men’s rights movement.

May I ask, are there any specific MRA organizations to which you refer? I ask, because I started a couple of years ago to look into these movements and I was very disappointed with most of them.

As for porn, humans have been creating images for the purpose of attaining arousal since forever. It’s more prolific and easier to access now.

But Lokabrenna, today’s porn is much, ***much ***different than the erotic images of times past, in terms of what is being presented in order to arouse. It has gone from a simple depiction of a normal sexual act between a man and woman to a celebration of violence, humiliation, degradation, and perversity, and that is why is it *far *more dangerous than a couple of paintings on a cave wall.

 

[bearer]

Porn and video games are part of a bigger problem among youth. Add those issues to broken families, devolving morality and social norms, rampant consumerism and entitlement culture, and a failing education system and you begin to see how kids are at risk of ruin.

 

[lerapt78]

I suppose it’s good that I don’t subscribe to your “no true Scotsman” theory of manhood . If the guy didn’t turn his radio down after I asked him to, I’d call the police and let them handle it, seeing as disturbing the peace is illegal and that’s their job. You don’t have to engage in assault to be a “real man,” and the other poster comparing your example to St. Nicholas punching Arius in the face for heresy is erecting a straw man. “Fraternal correction,” in the spirit of love for others, is Christian charity. Simple assault because somebody’s doing something you don’t like is the opposite. You can show masculinity and tough love without necessarily having to resort to violence.

(bolded emphasis mine)

CJMclark, I agree wholeheartedly with the above statements, as well. What I glean from your post is that it is not acceptable to act out rashly any time one feels angry or offended. I believe there is a difference between real, strong men, and weak men who simply put on a manly facade (aka “macho men” or “chest beaters”), and that one difference is the “real” man possesses the good judgement to know that not all confrontations can or should be solved with violence - this truly is a mark of civilization.

However, would you not agree with any of nec5’s observations? If I can reinterpret his post (nec, please correct me if I’m wrong), I think what he means is not that violence is *always *the answer, but rather that physical force *is * sometimes necessary, and that the feminization of men has left them with no outlet whatsoever to express this. To always wait for police, or walk away from conflict because of fear that getting involved will bring about social or legal ramifications, is to leave a man feeling somewhat useless in situations he has the power to control for the sake of justice. Men have never had a problem carrying out justice in the past, and to turn this responsibility over completely to the government is to devalue the pride they take in protecting their families and/or communities.

 

[Crescentinus]

May I ask, are there any specific MRA organizations to which you refer? I ask, because I started a couple of years ago to look into these movements and I was very disappointed with most of them.

I’m talking about the men’s rights movement in general, not as organizations. They have fallen into the identity politics trap and the demonization trap that radical feminism had fallen into.

 

[cjmclark]

(bolded emphasis mine)

CJMclark, I agree wholeheartedly with the above statements, as well. What I glean from your post is that it is not acceptable to act out rashly any time one feels angry or offended. I believe there is a difference between real, strong men, and weak men who simply put on a manly facade (aka “macho men” or “chest beaters”), and that one difference is the “real” man possesses the good judgement to know that not all confrontations can or should be solved with violence - this truly is a mark of civilization.

However, would you not agree with any of nec5’s observations? If I can reinterpret his post (nec, please correct me if I’m wrong), I think what he means is not that violence is *always *the answer, but rather that physical force is sometimes necessary, and that the feminization of men has left them with no outlet whatsoever to express this. To always wait for police, or walk away from conflict because of fear that getting involved will bring about social or legal ramifications, is to leave a man feeling somewhat useless in situations he has the power to control for the sake of justice. Men have never had a problem carrying out justice in the past, and to turn this responsibility over completely to the government is to devalue the pride they take in protecting their families and/or communities.

Actually, I do agree with some of them…see the end of my post:

FWIW, I don’t disagree that there has been a great deal of masculinity (and femininity) removed from society under the auspices of “gender equality,” whatever we’re defining that as today. Young men today are left without many positive examples of masculine role models and often have to find solace and mentorship where they may. Young women are sexualized almost right out of the gate. There’s a lot that’s wrong, and I think a lot of the problems begin at home with responsible parenting.

We live in a society where the terms “masculine” and “feminine” have become dirty words, where gender is optional and if you think that gender roles have any validity, you stand a solid chance of being labeled as some kind of backwards, anti-woman bigot. Let me be absolutely clear here - I believe that women are equal to men in terms of what rights we should be accorded as human beings. I do believe that men and women were each designed with a specific purpose in mind and as such tend to be naturally suited to certain roles such that they complement each other, so women and men are not “equal” in that regard. A woman is not a man, and a man is not a woman. They are both humans.

Is physical force sometimes necessary? Absolutely. It’s necessary if the guy who was blaring the radio comes at me with a tire iron after I ask him to turn it down, or if he gives me reason to believe he is a danger to my family and our home. Is it necessary just because he ignores me when I ask him to turn it down? I think not. I don’t think me bashing his radio and then beating him up just because he was playing it loudly at night quite squares with “justice” or “protecting my family and/or community.”

Now if I caught him trying to light someone’s house on fire, or assaulting a neighbor, or something like that, then I think use of force is justified to neutralize him before someone got hurt and while waiting for the authorities (hence the oft-misunderstood concept of citizen’s arrest, which is allowed in the US if one is witnessing a felony). Let’s be reasonable here.

EDIT: Case in point - “Grand jury: No indictment against father who killed daughter’s alleged abuser”. A Texas dad caught a guy in the act (allegedly) of raping his five-year-old daughter, beat the living snot out of him and when he realized the guy was dying, called 911 because he didn’t want him to die. I think there’s some real manliness there.

 

[LotusCarsLtd]

I’ll agree that porn is extremely harmful. I’ve read a lot lately about the issue and the evidence seems to prove it. But as for video games, I think I recall research showing that they are not harmful psychologically like porn is. You can certainly get addicted, but that also applies to a lot of other activities too.

 

[anp1215]

I suppose it’s good that I don’t subscribe to your “no true Scotsman” theory of manhood . If the guy didn’t turn his radio down after I asked him to, I’d call the police and let them handle it, seeing as disturbing the peace is illegal and that’s their job. You don’t have to engage in assault to be a “real man,” and the other poster comparing your example to St. Nicholas punching Arius in the face for heresy is erecting a straw man. “Fraternal correction,” in the spirit of love for others, is Christian charity. Simple assault because somebody’s doing something you don’t like is the opposite. You can show masculinity and tough love without necessarily having to resort to violence.

On the video game issue, I expected blowback from the “I’ve been playing video games for years and I’m perfectly normal” crowd. Heck, I’ve played video games for years and I consider myself to be pretty normal. Some studies have shown that video games cause an increase in aggressiveness, and other studies have shown that they don’t. I’m not looking to belabor that issue here - what fascinated me more was the notion of video games providing that neurochemical high that is so often associated with addiction.

As far as the poster who decided to pan the article after reading “Breivik, who “trained” on Call of Duty,” I think there’s an important distinction to be drawn here. This isn’t like Columbine, where friends and family said “Oh, yeah, those kids were always playing violent video games…must be why they decided to get a bunch of guns and kill people”…he actually testified that he used that as a method of “training.” Unless his weird political agenda includes a hatred for video games such that he would seek to discredit them, why would you dismiss this out of hand? The guy said he used a video game to train for his psychotic killing spree. I think there’s something to that.

Folks, I’m not here for a “men are screwing up society and here’s why” argument. I’m not even here for the “video games/TV/facebook/whatever are evil” argument. I came across this article, read it, and was intrigued by the broader-reaching implications of the potential neurochemical effects of today’s media (to include video games and pornography) on our kids, male and female (the article, after all, discussed young men, not men in their prime who turn to video games and sports because they feel emasculated in the public sphere). austenboston, I’m sorry the article isn’t more to your liking or that the authors aren’t ones you consider reliable. But it’s the article I happened to read, so it is what it is. I should have been more forthcoming about what I found interesting about the article in the OP.

FWIW, I don’t disagree that there has been a great deal of masculinity (and femininity) removed from society under the auspices of “gender equality,” whatever we’re defining that as today. Young men today are left without many positive examples of masculine role models and often have to find solace and mentorship where they may. Young women are sexualized almost right out of the gate. There’s a lot that’s wrong, and I think a lot of the problems begin at home with responsible parenting.

I agree with this. I didn’t know that real men are supposed to beat people up for playing the radio too loud. Sounds like a good way for the “real man” to get himself killed. I guess I’m glad I’m not married to a “real man.”

 

[ManOnFire]

I’m concerned that the speed-of-light stimulation of these video games conditions boys to crave this type of rapid stimulation, so they might be more likely to reject activities that need patience, like sacrificial love and responsible fatherhood, or other feelings that can not occur at this fast, instant gratification pace.

I have the same concerns over the new superheros cartoons. The old superheroes cartoons would develop and plot and drama before the action would occur. Check out these new superhero cartoons. They’re mostly nonstop action (stimulation) with little meaningful development of problem + solution. At this pace, I’m concerned that marriage and responsible parenthood might not be entertaining enough for my kids if they indulge in too much of this. Maybe it’s part of the more-men-will-become-too-weak-for-marriage-due-to-overstimulation-conditioning-so-more-women-will-become-dependent-on-big-goverment and depopulation plan.

 

[lerapt78]

Is physical force sometimes necessary? Absolutely. It’s necessary if the guy who was blaring the radio comes at me with a tire iron after I ask him to turn it down, or if he gives me reason to believe he is a danger to my family and our home. Is it necessary just because he ignores me when I ask him to turn it down? I think not. I don’t think me bashing his radio and then beating him up just because he was playing it loudly at night quite squares with “justice” or “protecting my family and/or community.”

Now if I caught him trying to light someone’s house on fire, or assaulting a neighbor, or something like that, then I think use of force is justified to neutralize him before someone got hurt and while waiting for the authorities (hence the oft-misunderstood concept of citizen’s arrest, which is allowed in the US if one is witnessing a felony). Let’s be reasonable here.

Well said.

I’m concerned that the speed-of-light stimulation of these video games conditions boys to crave this type of rapid stimulation, so they might be more likely to reject activities that need patience, like sacrificial love and responsible fatherhood, or other feelings that can not occur at this fast, instant gratification pace.

At this pace, I’m concerned that marriage and responsible parenthood might not be entertaining enough for my kids if they indulge in too much of this. Maybe it’s part of the more-men-will-become-too-weak-for-marriage-due-to-overstimulation-conditioning-so-more-women-will-become-dependent-on-big-goverment and depopulation plan.

Interesting observation, ManofFire. Being that I don’t play video games I wouldn’t be able to comment on the possibility of sensory overload. It makes sense, though! I definitely have observed and experienced the effects pornography has had on the male expectation of sex, and how for some of them, everything aside from the some of the most degrading and extreme acts is considered too “vanilla”

 

[crm0293]

I’m concerned that the speed-of-light stimulation of these video games conditions boys to crave this type of rapid stimulation, so they might be more likely to reject activities that need patience, like sacrificial love and responsible fatherhood, or other feelings that can not occur at this fast, instant gratification pace.

Good point, from my experience, I play video games and they are quite stimulating and addicting. When I was a kid, playing video games kept me out of trouble. They were fun but games were more inclined to self and it dose take away tons of responsibilities. I sometimes refuse to do chores like rake the leaves, wash dishes, or do homework because of I want to play games all day. Like without warning, video games became an addiction upon me, both a selfish and a costly addiction. That was my former self back then.

Then finally, I came back to the catholic faith and it was a real joy that through this faith, I am starting to become a more responsible and moral person. Although I did not gave up video games completely, I have to hold back playing them so I can do chores, pray, spend time with family, go to mass daily, most importantly to love God and Our Lord, Jesus Christ. I can play them to take a break but God and Christ ALWAYS come first before everything else. What I said could be just relativism. Overall games are a temptation of its own.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Sort of off topic, but not entirely. This thread reminds me of a saying Irish women used to have (and possibly still do) in commenting on Irish men.

“Offer an Irishman a woman or a bottle of whiskey, and he’ll take the whiskey every time.”

Different addiction, but same notion.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Case in point - “Grand jury: No indictment against father who killed daughter’s alleged abuser”. A Texas dad caught a guy in the act (allegedly) of raping his five-year-old daughter, beat the living snot out of him and when he realized the guy was dying, called 911 because he didn’t want him to die. I think there’s some real manliness there.

I presume you were being sarcastic in referring to the assailant as possessing manliness. There’s no excuse for being a vigilante and making oneself judge, jury, and executioner. Sure, it is appropriate to hold a person for the authorities, even by force, but beyond that, no. Perhaps going beyond the pale is excusable in Texas (I believe that Texans until relatively recently believed in the “unwritten law” allowing a man to kill his wife and her lover if caught in flagrante delicto, without fear of prosecution), but it ought not to be so.

 

[ManOnFire]

Good point, from my experience, I play video games and they are quite stimulating and addicting. When I was a kid, playing video games kept me out of trouble. They were fun but games were more inclined to self and it dose take away tons of responsibilities. I sometimes refuse to do chores like rake the leaves, wash dishes, or do homework because of I want to play games all day. Like without warning, video games became an addiction upon me, both a selfish and a costly addiction. That was my former self back then.

Then finally, I came back to the catholic faith and it was a real joy that through this faith, I am starting to become a more responsible and moral person. Although I did not gave up video games completely, I have to hold back playing them so I can do chores, pray, spend time with family, go to mass daily, most importantly to love God and Our Lord, Jesus Christ. I can play them to take a break but God and Christ ALWAYS come first before everything else. What I said could be just relativism. Overall games are a temptation of its own.

Glad to hear it! There ‘s nothing wrong with games as long as they don’t run people’s lives without their consent. I wonder if there’ would be less ADHD medicines prescribed if there weren’t so much portable stimulation. Some people are flat out addicted to it. Everything in moderation.

 

[didymus]

It makes more sense to separate Porn from Video Games because now, when someone says they play Video Games, you automatically assume they watch Porn. That makes no sense at all.

I agree that the two are separate but they do have much in common; the player/viewer becomes accustomed to a level of stimulation unavailable in the real world; both (porn especially) are a- or anti-social.

Is it a real addiction? It’s at least a really hard to break habit.

The high level of stimulation is a problem for everyone,
I think. Years ago we had a huge blackout & went w/o power for two weeks. My wife & I listened to radio, read books by lantern & actually talked to neighbor. Our son was freaking out. No cable! No TV at all, no Nintendo! What was he supposed to do?

Maybe we need a study of all online activity (incl. texting, tweeting, &c) on human behavior.

 

[iamcatholic100]

I know this thread is two years old, but I would like to share with you some disturbing statistics regarding the state of young men in America written by the same psychologist from the CNN article. Here are some of the Statistics:

-Females currently outperform males at every level, from grade school to graduate school. Boys are 30 percent more likely than girls to drop out of high school and college, according to the National Center of Education Statistics.

-In 2011, young men’s SAT scores were the worst they had been in 40 years.

-Even Hollywood has caught on: films like Failure to Launch, Knocked Up and Jackass mock the ineptitude of this generation.

-Boys account for 70 percent of D’s and F’s given at school.

-Research shows guys aren’t interested in being husbands, fathers or the head of the household.

-Boys are four to five times more likely than girls to have Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. Two-thirds of students in special education programs are guys.

-The average boy spends 13 hours a week playing video games. The average girl spends 5. The average young American will spend 10,000 hours playing video games by age 21. That’s twice the time it takes to earn a bachelor’s degree.

-The average high school boy spends two hours watching porn every week. Men can’t escape porn: 13,500 full-length commercial porn films were released in 2011, compared with 600 Hollywood films.

-Researchers claim that internet pornography is hurting young boys’ ability to form meaningful romantic relationships because they objectify their partner.

-It’s predicted that 60 percent of bachelor’s degrees will go to women by 2016.

-63 percent of men surveyed said they had a lack of motivation because of mixed messages from the media and society on their role.

-70 percent of young men surveyed said their generation wouldn’t be as smart or innovative as their peers in other First World countries.

Link businessinsider.com/the-demise-of-guys-by-philip-zimbardo-2012-5

As you can see, porn and video game addiction are all part of a bigger problem that young men face today. I believe the *root *of all the aforementioned problems is the feminization of American culture, the removal of God from the public institutions, lack of good fathers (including spiritual fathers), lack of discipline, moral relativism, and by a lack of courage and tough love from leaders both inside and outside the church.