The denial of Hell-by Christians?

[GaryTaylor]

Now see Gary this is where I was completly confused on Purgatory also. But it CAN be acomplished here on earth. But not MANY do it. But remember by the Sacraments God did make it possible for us. Remember nothing can not be obtained by his grace. But I admit I do not see many getting a NON-STOP FLIGHT BUt its possible now. The Catholic Church is what made that possible.

Scripture tells us we are all called to be Saints and Jesus did make that possible.

Hi Rinnie, I enjoy reading you perspective’s in general. As I mentioned to Anna. I didn’t even go into the differences of the physical world or purgatory. Only how they relate to purification of the Soul.

Yes it is possible I agree. There are living Saints on earth today and Catholic mystics who are hidden away do to public nonsense and danger. My only point with them, is being of the flesh commits them to this physical world still. Just like our Pope.

Saints, when we really examine their life’s. They find their faults just in a passing thought for example and then confess. Not even in what they say or do by large. Although this can also be true

You know whos’s great to read on this, Teresa of Avila. Starr who’s the translater and author of “The Book of MY Life” did a wonderful job with that. But you see not just a very very Gifted Saint. But also a very human and real side. I read everything by Teresa of Avila. All are good. But this one has a particular human side to it since Teresa of Avila’s life is the topic by herself. So instead of speaking constantly of the Mystic realm of the Soul. Her personality shines thorough on amny issues in life. Fears, sometimes feeing she is speaking and acting much to bold and so on.

God Bless my sister, Gary

 

[edowitz1]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

[rinnie]

My post from the thread entitled, “Is Hell Eternal?”

Hi Anna, I understand your concern about other souls who may reject God and how you worry about them. But remember that is why we have prayer and hope they will change their ways.

But you need to look at this from another point of view. When you worry about souls that are in eternal hell think about the devil. Think about the hell on earth he went out of his way to see happen.

Think of kids today who are inocent and people who sold these inocent kids drugs and got them hooked and then turned them into slaves for a drug that they crave so badly that they will do anything. And then thiink of the sick things these drug dealers do to use them to give them a stupid drug that their body is craving so bad.

You must think of the evil and how some people really have no good in them. Again I know it is hard to imagine, but is it really? Look at the rich CEO’S who make millions at the expense of the working man who can barely feed his family. Look at the people who cheated these poor people out of their pensions. (ENRON). People who worked all of their lives and are 80 today working at Walmart as a greeter just to pay the rent. Thing’ s like that. People who can enjoy that money can’t be from God.

Not that all CEO’s are wrong but you get my point. There are so many people who have a different God from us Anna, that false god is called by many names, the devil has many names. Remember the master of disquise. He hides behind Money, Power, etc.

How about crooked Judges? Cops? Even bad Priiests Anna. How one bad can ruin it for all of the good. And who suffers? The good Priests, the good Cops, the Good Judges, the good CEO"S etc.

My Dad always told me when you see people who do evil and continue to do evil and never pay not to worry. He said let them go. This is their world. Let them enjoy it. This is the only happiness they will get. Do you understand now? God gives them every single waking moment to turn back and make right. But they don’t need or want God.

Anna Think about this!! If you don’t want God with you in this world, what makes you think you will want him in the next? See what I am saying?

If they don’t turn back and feel the need for God now they won’t at death either. How can one be happy and contented w/o God in this world. Isn’t that hard to imagine, But yet many are. So there are many who don’t want him in the next either.

And Anna People w/o God in this world. Do you now see the burning now? Deep in their soul. How they are lost, deep down longing they cannot feel. So they turn to false gods. Some cults, some drugs, some power. some money. See the connection.

I am not saying making a good money or having it is bad. I am saying what did you have to do to get it. Thats when you know. To work hard and have good things is a wonderful thing. God told us to work hard and he will help us. But if we don’t get the money we think we should God has his reasons also. We trust God not money. There are many no like that Anna.

 

[fred_conty]

Hi,
This is directed to Anna.
I know this is an old thread, but going back I believe I missed one of your questions directed my way. The question was, if I don’t pray for those in heaven (which do not need my prayers), and I don’t pray for those in hell (which cannot use my prayers), then how do you know who to pray for since we don’t know for sure who is where in the after life?

If someone who I know dies, I always assume they would want me to pray for them.
Even tho noone knows where anyone exists after death, I feel its best for their sake if
I pray for them as tho they are in purgatory. If I am mistaken, then no prayer is wasted,
and the prayers would be applied elsewhere where they will do the most good.

Mary is higher than anyone in heaven and closest to her Son. She is one with her Son and her intentions are His, because they are that close. Therefore I pray always thru her and offer her everything since she has a way of exploding all good things in her approach
of love, just as she did at Cana. Her intentions come first, but she then takes care of all my needs as well of all those who I care about in a better way then if I used only my feeble attempts of distribution. In other words, more is accomplished thru her than in any other way, especially for those who we have loved in this life and have passed on to the next.​

Ave Maria!

 

[Anna_Scott]

Hi,
This is directed to Anna.
I know this is an old thread, but going back I believe I missed one of your questions directed my way. The question was, if I don’t pray for those in heaven (which do not need my prayers), and I don’t pray for those in hell (which cannot use my prayers), then how do you know who to pray for since we don’t know for sure who is where in the after life?

If someone who I know dies, I always assume they would want me to pray for them.
Even tho noone knows where anyone exists after death, I feel its best for their sake if
I pray for them as tho they are in purgatory. If I am mistaken, then no prayer is wasted,
and the prayers would be applied elsewhere where they will do the most good.

Mary is higher than anyone in heaven and closest to her Son. She is one with her Son and her intentions are His, because they are that close. Therefore I pray always thru her and offer her everything since she has a way of exploding all good things in her approach
of love, just as she did at Cana. Her intentions come first, but she then takes care of all my needs as well of all those who I care about in a better way then if I used only my feeble attempts of distribution. In other words, more is accomplished thru her than in any other way, especially for those who we have loved in this life and have passed on to the next.​

Ave Maria!

fred conty,

I appreciate your coming back to the thread to answer this. That’s so nice of you. I understand what you are saying regarding prayers for those who have died. It does make sense.

I’ve encountered varying degrees of Marian devotion among Catholics and also among Anglicans. Your devotion seems to be very high. My Anglican Rector does hold the Blessed Virgin Mary in high esteem. This is still an area that I am exploring.

I did have an unexpected experience during the Feast of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary. I felt her very close to me. I don’t know how to explain it exactly. It was an evening Eucharist, with a rather sparse attendance, which, perhaps, speaks to the Anglican ambivalence regarding Marian Devotions and Doctrine. I have asked for her help with bringing my son back to our Lord. That’s a small, but important step for this former Southern Baptist.

Peace to you, fred conty,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

The name of Jesus means “God saves” (from hell). The Holy Spirit is love. Ask the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus to save those today who won’t make it when called. We must ask now for tomorrow will be to late for them.

This is how we should teach hell, in a loving, positive way, doing the very work of Jesus Himself. Remembering His suffering, say, “Please Lord Jesus, have mercy on them whom you are calling today.” Have this intention in you morning offering, they need you desperately.

“…love everyone, but especially the brethern.” Paul, the convert and murderer.

Fred,
I went back and looked at all your posts on this thread, and this one really stood out–especially when you talked about praying remembering the suffering of Christ and praying, “Please Lord Jesus, have mercy on them whom you are calling today.”

You said “Have this intention in you morning offering, they need you desperately.”

I pray often that Christ will call my son, and that my son will answer His call. I think you are right about having this intention in our morning prayers for others.

It was good to read your comments again.

Thank you for what you have written here and for remembering me.

I ask that you please remember my son in your prayers. He’ll be 24 in a few months. He needs to encounter the Living Christ. I pray for him all the time.
Anna

 

[Bill_Pick]

Hmmmm. Maybe it is time to bring back some Hell fire sermons. Remind the laity that Hell is real and a doctrin of the Church. One needs to sometimes emphisize the neggative to understand and apreciate the good and the point there of Christs redemptive suffering.

What other church beside the JW that do not believe in Hell ? I,m just a dumb cathloic but I beleve in hell ( try living with my wife ) SORRY

 

[Anna_Scott]

What other church beside the JW that do not believe in Hell ? I,m just a dumb cathloic but I beleve in hell ( try living with my wife ) SORRY

Bill,
I can’t believe you said that about your wife. Come on now. Not nice.

Anna

 

[workingman]

What other church beside the JW that do not believe in Hell ? I,m just a dumb cathloic but I beleve in hell ( try living with my wife ) SORRY

Off the top of my head SDA and LDS. I think though I may be wrong.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Of course the topic of Hell makes most uncomfortable. However, my concern is those who believe it does not exist and that everyone is saved. Unfortunately,not all will be saved.

Anna, If you see this post,I,m sorry about the wife it was a joke and to let you know that was my EX wife…May be we will run in to each other at another time its good to talk to You, have a good day and may Our Lord bless You

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna, If you see this post,I,m sorry about the wife it was a joke and to let you know that was my EX wife…May be we will run in to each other at another time its good to talk to You, have a good day and may Our Lord bless You

Bill,
I guess I’ve just heard too many husbands say negative things about their wives; but no worries. I know you’re a good guy, Bill. We’ve been on threads together in the past.

Peace,
Anna

 

[fred_conty]

And one more thing I agree there is no sorrow in hell. Only missery. Hate, Evil. darkness.

It is a life that you choose for yourself and want for yourself. I know what you are thinking who could imagine. But only true evil can know true evil.

Just like only true goodness could imagine true goodness.

Hi,
I’ve thought about people choosing hell and I’ve read in catechisms and other religious books that people go there because they choose this by their actions

I have a problem with that idea. I can’t in my wildest imagination see anyone wanting to go to hell. And I don’t believe they choose it by their actions. They are choosing to be happy in a misguided way. Everyone wants happiness and to be fulfilled. It is their perception of what they think is happiness that has become warped.

I can understand that it is a consequence of their actions. But not a choosing of unending misery.

It is like the question “why does God allow a person to suffer forever?” Rather then “why does a person refuse to experience the extactic beauty and promises of God?” It is the proper placement of responsiblity. In the first phrase, The Good Lord is made culprit. in the second, the human is the guilty one which is where it belongs.

I apoligize if I seem to be upicky on this. But actually I’m glad you brought this up, because is found everywhere in books.​

For the sake of Christ, I willingly accept my weakness and my trials,
for when I am powerless then I am strong.

 

[rinnie]

Hi,
I’ve thought about people choosing hell and I’ve read in catechisms and other religious books that people go there because they choose this by their actions

I have a problem with that idea. I can’t in my wildest imagination see anyone wanting to go to hell. And I don’t believe they choose it by their actions. They are choosing to be happy in a misguided way. Everyone wants happiness and to be fulfilled. It is their perception of what they think is happiness that has become warped.

I can understand that it is a consequence of their actions. But not a choosing of unending misery.

It is like the question “why does God allow a person to suffer forever?” Rather then “why does a person refuse to experience the extactic beauty and promises of God?” It is the proper placement of responsiblity. In the first phrase, The Good Lord is made culprit. in the second, the human is the guilty one which is where it belongs.

I apoligize if I seem to be upicky on this. But actually I’m glad you brought this up, because is found everywhere in books.​

For the sake of Christ, I willingly accept my weakness and my trials,
for when I am powerless then I am strong.

Well Fred it is unfortunate but it really is true. But think of this another way. You see money at a friends house and they are out of the room. You can simply take it or not take it. It is up to you.

You can take time out everyday and pray or you can never pray.

You can take the time out for God every Sunday or you can say no I don’t need to go.

You can believe in God and live the way he wants you to live or you can refuse to live his way and live the way you want. Commit Adultery, steal, kill, cheat, lie. break all fo the commandments.

Look at the world today and it will be easier for you to see that we go to hell by our actions because we choose to do this. The world is full of it today. And they KNOW its wrong they do not truly care. They don’t care about God don’t want him. Actually do all in thier power to not even let us talk about him. Take him out of School etc.

Do you not think People especially in power are going to just steal and live the life they live and make the poor suffer even more and more while they continue to get and get are still going to get the fun easy life in heaven also. Think about it Fred. As my Dad said let them have it this is their paradise.

Jesus said those who are first will be last and last first.

Look at the parable of the rich man then it will all fit for you. When you refuse to help others and are given so much but refuse to help others only yourself you are not of God. So when the time comes God will say as the bible tells us I do not know you.

 

[fred_conty]

Hi,
My answers to the following two statements:
1.You can take time out everyday and pray or you can never pray.
2.You can take the time out for God every Sunday or you can say no I don’t need to go.​

When people don’t pray, is it God’s fault or theirs that they don’t pray, or neither?
They do not choose to go to hell, but rather not to pray because they may
see it as a waste of time. They always choose to do what they think is for their happiness
even tho they are mistaken. The solution is, to show them where their happiness really
lies. Once they see that, then they will pray because it is for their happiness. We always do things for happiness whether right or wong in our assessment.

People don’t keep the Sabboth holy for one reason: they do not see it as rewarding, or
bringing them happiness. They do not choose to violate Sunday just because they want to suffer forever. They just don’t see the point, or that it is for their good. Now the solution is that they see that it does impact their happiness in one way or another so that they will observe it willingly and with meaning.

On statement says they choose to go to hell by their actions. They choose to sin because they really don’t understand how to pursue happiness and as a result the consequence will be eternal unhappiness. In the first statement it is condemning, and in the second statement it is said with some understanding and compassion. And it is this attitude which will help us and others in approaching Christ.

The bible says we have all sinned. Is it because we choose hell? Or is it that we choose happiness even tho misguided or misunderstood at the moment?

 

[Pythons]

From what I understand all Adventist denominations reject that there is a “Hell”…
…The Jehovah’s Witnesses, SDA’s, WWCOG7th day and Christadelphians all believe.
…That “Hell” only begins to exist subsequent to the General Judgment.
…And that the lost are annihilated so that they become as if they never existed in the 1st place.

As far as “Denominations” the above ones are the only ones I’m aware of…
…However within the Anglican communion I hear these teaching can also be found.
…Along with the belief that homosexuality can be practiced, even by Bishops!

I realize that some Alglicans are sick about these things but the folks directing the ship…
…Say it’s all in good fun and “OK”.

 

[Selah123]

Does anyone here research root words in a concordance? You can really learn a lot.

 

[Tony888]

As a Director of Catechetical Ministry at a local Roman Catholic parish located at So.Cal., a particular topic has caught my attention: Hell. I find it amazing at the amount of parents who get offended when Hell is taught or mentioned. I have had numerous complaints by parents telling me why I allow my catechist to teach about Hell? My rebuttal: Since when has the RCC denied the existence of Hell?

My question to my non-Catholic brethen is simple:

Does your particular Christian tradition (Baptist,Methodist,etc) teach about Hell?

God Bless

I see a general softening across all denominations. Did you see that the Southern Baptists just voted to confirm their Doctrine, to fight this backsliding among members

Baptists Affirm Belief In ‘Eternal’ Hell

 

[lisaberry100]

We have been at most denominations who take their version of the Bible seriously. They all believe in hell. We became Catholic because we believe It is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. This is a central teaching of the RCC. (hell is real). Your school is just fighting the tide of relativism, because the parents don’t want their children to hear objective truth. They want everyone to “do what feels good”. Hell doesn’t factor into their equation. Please keep teaching truth, those poor kids need to hear. it. God bless you.

 

[Anna_Scott]

We have been at most denominations who take their version of the Bible seriously. They all believe in hell. We became Catholic because we believe It is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. This is a central teaching of the RCC. (hell is real). Your school is just fighting the tide of relativism, because the parents don’t want their children to hear objective truth. They want everyone to “do what feels good”. Hell doesn’t factor into their equation. Please keep teaching truth, those poor kids need to hear. it. God bless you.

lisaberry100,
What is your definition of Hell?

Peace,
Anna

 

[M_Winters]

Anyone read anything about the Universalism that was taught in the original roots of Christianity (before Constantine)? I was reading this site godsplanforall.com/ yesterday and it has some very interesting information regarding the mistranslations (possibly) from Hebrew and Greek to Latin to English and how they pertain to the words translated into “Hell”.