The Dinasour Question

[jay29]

If dinasours are like 59 million years old and so forth, how does that fit into creationism? How does this fit into Judaism/Christianity? I am a strong Catholic, but have no answer to any of those. Thanks Jay.

 

[Vincent1560]

jay29:

If dinasours are like 59 million years old and so forth, how does that fit into creationism? How does this fit into Judaism/Christianity? I am a strong Catholic, but have no answer to any of those. Thanks Jay.

You can have a literal view of the bible and still believe the world is billions of years old. The word day used in Genesis can also be translated as an age or period of time. The ancient Hebrew lexicon was rather small and thus words such as day had many meanings. The age view is also supported by the fact that the 7th day is not folowed by the refrain “and the evening and the morning were the 7th day” This has lead some to conclude we are still in the 7th day of creation. Such translation issues also effect how you interpret the flood. The word “earth” in Hebrew can also refer to the less encompassing noun “land” which leads some to conclude the flood was not global but instead restricted to Mesopotamia were humans were concentrated.
Also Moses was not intending Genesis to be a science text book, so a lot of questions and issues are not addressed. He was much more interested in talking about how the relationship between God and men developed in early history. Extrapolating scientific principles from a verse here and a verse there is not likely to be productive.
If you are interested in helping people come to Christ who do get caught up in the science issues I would reccomend “The Genesis Question” by Hugh Ross. He demonstrates how a literal reading of Genesis is not inherently contradictory to any established mainstream scientific principles.

 

[mcpeake]

If dinasours are like 59 million years old and so forth, how does that fit into creationism? How does this fit into Judaism/Christianity? I am a strong Catholic, but have no answer to any of those. Thanks Jay.

Well Jay who says the dinosaurs are that old??? you need to do a google search on the Kolbe center and visi Bob Sungenis’ web site—read his article “DE-evolution of Evolution” by Dr. Terry Jackson–its great----there is a ton of evidence that dinosaurs arent that old-------

 

[harinkj]

–there is a ton of evidence that dinosaurs arent that old-------

:tsktsk:Sorry, :tsktsk:but that is not evidence. :tsktsk:

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[mcpeake]

kathy–please be more specific—what is not evidence???

 

[Orogeny]

mcpeake:

Well Jay who says the dinosaurs are that old??? you need to do a google search on the Kolbe center and visi Bob Sungenis’ web site—read his article “DE-evolution of Evolution” by Dr. Terry Jackson–its great----there is a ton of evidence that dinosaurs arent that old-------

There is no scientific evidence that dinosaurs existed less than about 64 million years ago. Please provide any you have.

Peace

Tim

 

[mcpeake]

There is no scientific evidence that dinosaurs existed less than about 64 million years ago. Please provide any you have.

Peace

Tim
here is a start timmy boy—

Wet photo of 12 inch long fossil human footprint, Paluxy River June 16, 2005
Hugh Miller of the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation has made another amazing find in the Paluxy River – human footprints in strata that evolutionists say is millions of years old. What’s more is that earlier, dinosaur footprints were found in strata above where the human footprint was found, and Hugh, who is continuing the excavations throughout the summer, expects to find many more. Paluxy, if you remember, is also the place where human footprints were found inside dinosaur footprints, and of which the evolutionists scurried to create all kinds of wild and silly excuses. Our hats off to Mr. Miller and his fine work. Praise be to the Creator of heaven and earth!

Robert Sungenis

I can post more ifyou would like----kolbe center’s website is also helpful

 

[mcpeake]

here is more timmy----this is indirect-- proof–but it shows how “messed” up that scientifc dating is—

What are we to make of the “scientific” evidence claiming extraordinary age for the earth? Evolutionary chemists use radiometric techniques to “prove” this planet to be about 4.8 billion years old. A favorite method is the potassium-argon system, used to date many fossilized specimens. The layers of gradual accumulation of sediments “over millions and millions of years” gives vivid “proof” of an ancient earth. These layers are dated using “state of the art” methods firmly establishing, they say, the notion of gradual evolutionary change; the simple, older organisms at the bottom and the more complex, younger life forms at the top. According to evolutionary thought fossilized remains have been entombed in sediment over millions of years, leaving a record of gradually evolving life forms to “prove” that evolution carefully molded every living organism.

This dating technique was recently tested for accuracy and failed.15 Three independent laboratories were sent a sample of basalt produced by an Hawaiian volcanic eruption less than 200 years ago. The testing results varied from 20 million years to 3 billion years.16, 17

15.Wallace Johnson, The Case Against Evolution, CCCR Press, p.31.
16Frederic B. Jueneman, FAIC, “Secular Catastrophism,” Industrial Research and Development, June, 1982, p.21.
17.William D. Stansfield, Ph.D. (Biology), The Science of Evolution, MacMillan, New York, p.82, p.84, 1977.

 

[mcpeake]

here is some more–timmy

How can Ms. Leakey state so dogmatically the age of these footprints? We have seen how 200-year-old volcanic residue yields grossly distorted ages! How would she explain the documented fact23 of the discovery of dinosaur and human footprints fossilized in the same rocks even though evolutionists like her claim that humans arrived 70 million years after the dinosaurs became extinct! Another remarkable fact: a human sandal print fossilized with a crushed trilobite which evolutionists claim became extinct hundreds of millions of years ago. These seldom-mentioned discoveries and hundreds more like them telescope the earth’s history into a period of time of thousands of years instead of millions or billions. Evolutionists can’t accept this.

23George Mulfinger and Donald Snyder, Earth Science for Christian Schools, Bob Jones University, Greenville, South Carolina, 1979, p.290.

 

[Orogeny]

mcpeake:

here is a start timmy boy—

timmy boy?

Wet photo of 12 inch long fossil human footprint, Paluxy River June 16, 2005

That’s laughable! Even fundamentalists have stopped using that as an argument! Those “human” footprints are dinosaur prints. Anyone who claims they are human are lying to you.
From the Institute of Creation Research (ICR) Impact article #151

Even though it would now be improper for creationists to continue to use the Paluxy data as evidence against evolution, in the light of these questions, there is still much that is not known about the tracks and continued research is in order. We stand committed to truth, and will gladly modify or abandon our previous interpretation of the Paluxy data as the facts dictate.

For a good explaination of the site, look here: talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

mcpeake:

here is more timmy----this is indirect-- proof–but it shows how “messed” up that scientifc dating is—

What are we to make of the “scientific” evidence claiming extraordinary age for the earth? Evolutionary chemists use radiometric techniques to “prove” this planet to be about 4.8 billion years old. A favorite method is the potassium-argon system, used to date many fossilized specimens. The layers of gradual accumulation of sediments “over millions and millions of years” gives vivid “proof” of an ancient earth. These layers are dated using “state of the art” methods firmly establishing, they say, the notion of gradual evolutionary change; the simple, older organisms at the bottom and the more complex, younger life forms at the top. According to evolutionary thought fossilized remains have been entombed in sediment over millions of years, leaving a record of gradually evolving life forms to “prove” that evolution carefully molded every living organism.

This dating technique was recently tested for accuracy and failed.15 Three independent laboratories were sent a sample of basalt produced by an Hawaiian volcanic eruption less than 200 years ago. The testing results varied from 20 million years to 3 billion years.16, 17

15.Wallace Johnson, The Case Against Evolution, CCCR Press, p.31.
16Frederic B. Jueneman, FAIC, “Secular Catastrophism,” Industrial Research and Development, June, 1982, p.21.
17.William D. Stansfield, Ph.D. (Biology), The Science of Evolution, MacMillan, New York, p.82, p.84, 1977.

Bad science and worse apologetics. If someone wants to do science to backup their fundamentalist position, they should at least be honest in their approach.

Take a moment and read this paper. It is written by a Christian physicist.
asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html

Peace

Tim

 

[mcpeake]

are you calling bob sungenis and terry jackson liars???

 

[Orogeny]

mcpeake:

here is some more–timmy

How can Ms. Leakey state so dogmatically the age of these footprints?

Good science.

We have seen how 200-year-old volcanic residue yields grossly distorted ages!

Only if using either misleading science or bad science. Take your pick.

How would she explain the documented fact23 of the discovery of dinosaur and human footprints fossilized in the same rocks even though evolutionists like her claim that humans arrived 70 million years after the dinosaurs became extinct!

There are no human footprints found with dinosaur prints. Just wishfull thinking by anti-scientists.

Another remarkable fact: a human sandal print fossilized with a crushed trilobite which evolutionists claim became extinct hundreds of millions of years ago. These seldom-mentioned discoveries and hundreds more like them telescope the earth’s history into a period of time of thousands of years instead of millions or billions. Evolutionists can’t accept this.

I get it. This is a joke! Shame on me!

Peace

Tim

 

[mcpeake]

paluxy is not the onlyplace that human prints and diosaur prints were fround----KOLBE CENTER–GO THERE

 

[Orogeny]

mcpeake:

are you calling bob sungenis and terry jackson liars???

Um, YES!

Peace

Tim

 

[forthright]

I hate to post hearsay on this thread, but I thought it would be good to hear another story of scientific failure. . .

I had a friend in college that had previously attended Wesleyan University. He told me of an experiment they performed (he was involved in the experiment, so this isn’t an urban legend) by taking a piece of wood with a known age (I’m not sure how the knew the age), and sent it to 3 laboratories for carbon dating. The closest result was more than twice the real age, and one of the others came back being thousands of years old.

 

[Orogeny]

mcpeake:

paluxy is not the onlyplace that human prints and diosaur prints were fround----KOLBE CENTER–GO THERE

They aren’t found there, either. Kolbe Center is nothing but a fundamentalist site that intentionally distorts science to prove their point.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

forthright:

I hate to post hearsay on this thread, but I thought it would be good to hear another story of scientific failure. . .

I had a friend in college that had previously attended Wesleyan University. He told me of an experiment they performed (he was involved in the experiment, so this isn’t an urban legend) by taking a piece of wood with a known age (I’m not sure how the knew the age), and sent it to 3 laboratories for carbon dating. The closest result was more than twice the real age, and one of the others came back being thousands of years old.

I would refer you to the same article I refered mcpeake to:
asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html

Peace

Tim

 

[SPOKENWORD]

All the information you need about creationalism is all in the bible. The earth is less than 6000 years old. Trace it back to Adam and Eve and you will see Gods word is true. Dinosaurs are nothing but giant lizards. God Bless

 

[Ianjo99]

How come most Creationists insist on using the same old, tired arguments? I am a Catholic, but also agree that yeah, evolution probably happened. As a Biology student I can pretty much guarentee that there is little to no controversy in that area. Ignoring mounds of support and research out of obstinance weakens Christianity as a whole because it makes us seem ignorant and close-minded.

Instead of trying to poke holes in a well-formed scientific theory, why don’t you try to reconcile what you believe with science. If you try, chances are that you’ll realize the evolution HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT GOD EXISTS, OR ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM AT ALL.

It’s infuriating that so many people will forego opinions from experts in favor of what they want to hear. Despite how evolution was revolutionary in how it connected many branches of science and how it explained a number of mysteries, people still would rather it not exist because it isn’t as mystical as a literal 7 day creation.