The disorder of homosexuality

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anthrogirl said:
In every 2 sex species where scientists have looked for homosexuality, they have found it. B…
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Studies of the animal kingdom do reveal indiscriminate mounting behavior, but isn’t that usually to express roles of dominance and submission? Do animals engage in long-term long-term homosexual bondings? Or, does the behavior stop when a heterosexual option becomes available? Also, even if the animals do engage in homosexual behavior, should humans fall to the same standard as animals? Some animals also eat their young, but humans should not emulate that behavior either.
 
SwizzleStick said:
Studies of the animal kingdom do reveal indiscriminate mounting behavior, but isn’t that usually to express roles of dominance and submission? Do animals engage in long-term long-term homosexual bondings? Or, does the behavior stop when a heterosexual option becomes available? Also, even if the animals do engage in homosexual behavior, should humans fall to the same standard as animals? Some animals also eat their young, but humans should not emulate that behavior either.
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Well, those penguins do make a cute couple. Refute that!
 
epan said:
Well, those penguins do make a cute couple. Refute that!
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It is my understanding that the “gay” penguins were not really "gay, but their behavior was a social bond, nothing more. When it came time to mate, nature took its course. Humans decided the “gay” aspect should be stressed, I think, so the males were housed together again to suit that agenda.

Gay Penguins Reunion: Buddy And Pedro Will Be Back Together By Spring
huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/14/gay-penguin-reunion_n_1093298.html
 
Zosimus41 said:
Uh yes it is.

How could a person inclined towards commiting a mortal sin thats in his/her very nature
be able to live a Holy life? Now that my friend brings forth complications! Both for that person and the church.The church is here not to condemn but to save souls.

Bottom line is sex outside of marraige is a mortal sin doesnt matter what lifestyle you choose. So how do you handle the situation of someone who states my lifestyle doesnt fit
the rubrics of the bible and church however they want to go to heaven after they die and they believe in salvation? The church cannot offer these people the full freedom of choice to live as they desire and salvation. I cant imagine the struggle that person must be going through. So I believe it would be complicated.

The church is working very diligently to incorporate homosexuals into salvation.

Cited from the Vatican website

Church this Letter on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons.
  1. Naturally, an exhaustive treatment of this** complex issue **cannot be attempted here, but we will focus our reflection within the distinctive context of the Catholic moral perspective. It is a perspective which finds support in the more secure findings of the natural sciences, which have their own legitimate and proper methodology and field of inquiry.
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A sin is a sin and the best way to deal with it is the sacrament of reconciliation. Any sin can be called and will be complex and confusing if not dealt with correctly. Any kind of sin of impurity or any battle with the forces of evil. The Churches Sacraments when practiced fully, have a wonderful healing power no matter what the sin. Gay people can be healed too.

Here is testimony of many a Gay person.

youtube.com/playlist?list=PL951E417EBE9BD0E4
 
anthrogirl said:
… Because it is found throughout the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God. …
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This has got to be the most absurd justification for homosexual acts I have ever encountered, for it can be said about almost anything:
  • Because theft can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
  • Because fighting can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
  • Because killing can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
  • Because multiple sex partners can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
  • Because _____________________ [fill in] can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
It is a good example of what Benjamin Cardozo once said: “There is a tendency for a principle to expand itself to the limit of its logic.”
If you have to rationalize it, you know it is wrong.
 
sedonaman said:
This has got to be the most absurd justification for homosexual acts I have ever encountered, for it can be said about almost anything:
  • Because theft can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
  • Because fighting can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
  • Because killing can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
  • Because multiple sex partners can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
  • Because _____________________ [fill in] can be found in the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God.
If you have to rationalize it, you know it is wrong.
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So by your signature you admit that your faith is wrong to begin with. As for the points above, you make them well. God, in your anthropomorphization of Divinity as “Creator,” did and does create and sustain all those things. Indiscriminately. And without interference or judgement, other than the law of reciprocity.
 
anthrogirl said:
In every 2 sex species where scientists have looked for homosexuality, they have found it. Because it is found throughout the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God. The bible is filled with immoral and illegal practices that we choose to disregard. I’ve never stoned my kids for talking back to me just as I’ve never condemned homosexuals. And the “love the sinner, not the sin” is just dressing up bigotry. If you have a problem with homosexuality throughout the animal kingdom including the human race, take it up with God. Tell him what’s he’s doing wrong. Correct him for his mistake. Tell him that his work a disorder.

Or you can be accepting of all of God’s creations and relish in the diversity. Say to God, “Thank you for the wonderful creation of our world. Help me be a good steward by fostering love and goodness in every person that I meet. Please help me resist the evil in my heart that seeks to twist your message into bigoted words that hurt others and poisons your kingdom. Impart upon me the knowledge that I am not worthy of deciding who is right and who is wrong in your eyes. That is for you alone to decide. Amen.”
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Yeah, right. :rolleyes: I guess you’d say that God made serial murderers so we should thank God for them? Oh, wait, that doesn’t happen in the animal kingdom…or maybe it does…I think God told us that we are to be better than animals!

Isn’t that prayer just sweet though? Thanks for trying to put words in our mouths to worship God. God does not celebrate perversion! You might try reading the Bible for a change to see what God thinks of sexual deviants.
 
Gaber said:
So by your signature you admit that your faith is wrong to begin with. …
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🤷 Huh? Would you mind explaining the logic that led you to that conclusion?
“The time is sure to come when people will not accept sound teaching, but their ears will be itching for anything new, and they will collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes; and then they will shut their ears to the truth and will turn to myths.” – 2 Timothy, 4:3-4
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Yeah, right. :rolleyes: I guess you’d say that God made serial murderers so we should thank God for them? Oh, wait, that doesn’t happen in the animal kingdom…or maybe it does…I think God told us that we are to be better than animals!

Isn’t that prayer just sweet though? Thanks for trying to put words in our mouths to worship God. God does not celebrate perversion! You might try reading the Bible for a change to see what God thinks of sexual deviants.
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Appearently you have read the Bible for Anthrogirl and now wish her to live according to your reading of it. I’ve read it, as most people do, in parts. Maybe you have read the whole blessed thing. I don’t have the patience.

But I’ve read the “parts” used as “proofs” of what is used to make the normal occurance of homosexuality and other natural wonders into “disorders.” In the order of things, things only have an order. That place does not bring with it other than a condition relative to other conditions. If it does bring relative value and inherent goodness, you are as at fault for not being a Docoter of the Church and Sainted. In fact, you hae as much responsibility for bing in your condition as someone is for being born with four colors of pupil, two in each eye. Your position os one of inculcation, not of “natural order.”

Perhaps you see Eden as having been some lawn-mowered race of utter equaity and no alleged defects. I wonder ifyou have considered any of the viable alternatives for that woe begotten tale whose misinterpretation has caused untold grief and retardation in our peoples?

It is not normal as being most commonly the case, but it and other differences occur. You are just putting a rationlized label of “disorder” on something in the same way as soldiers use epithets for the enemy in order to make it easy to kill them by de-humnizing them. On examination the “enemy” is no different than the flag wavers who claim God on their side and the enemy to be the devil’s spawn. What you are doing is no differnt, and you are doing it for the same purpose, both in fact, and in spirit.

It is murder by withdrawing the inclusivity of love due to a personalization of Scripture and a creation of a god in your own image and likeness.

So as with soldiers, the problem is not with God as Divinity, but in people as beleivers of any kind and shaping those beliefs to suit the limits of their moral and spiritual incompetency. Personalize the God, and you have persons as userped gods bludgeioning their fellow man into love and salvation as wee as their own tiny minds.
 
anthrogirl said:
In every 2 sex species where scientists have looked for homosexuality, they have found it. Because it is found throughout the animal kingdom, including humans, it is of nature and of God. If we deny it, we deny God. The bible is filled with immoral and illegal practices that we choose to disregard. I’ve never stoned my kids for talking back to me just as I’ve never condemned homosexuals. And the “love the sinner, not the sin” is just dressing up bigotry. If you have a problem with homosexuality throughout the animal kingdom including the human race, take it up with God. Tell him what’s he’s doing wrong. Correct him for his mistake. Tell him that his work a disorder.

Or you can be accepting of all of God’s creations and relish in the diversity. Say to God, “Thank you for the wonderful creation of our world. Help me be a good steward by fostering love and goodness in every person that I meet. Please help me resist the evil in my heart that seeks to twist your message into bigoted words that hurt others and poisons your kingdom. Impart upon me the knowledge that I am not worthy of deciding who is right and who is wrong in your eyes. That is for you alone to decide. Amen.”
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Anthro,

I have seen this sort of discussion and logic before. It is linear. Let me add to the formula you propose the following. The animal kingdom excluding humans does have evidence of abberrant behavior. It has been shown that certain ape like animals exhibit homosexual behavior. This has been used as evidence for those that lean towards homosexuality as relevant.

Now consider this. This ape that does this has been shown to have intelligence. That intelligence rivals an adolescent human. So do you want to base your behavior as a human on an adolescent model of behavior?

Now consider smoking of cigarettes. Tobacco in the animal kingdom is poison. Insects die from Nicotine spray and is considered natural DDT and is used by Organic farmers for that. The smartest ape, the Orangatang and all other animals won’t eat it as it is poison to them. Humans smoke it in spite of knowing that animals see it as poison. So why not model what we see in the animal kingdom here?

What is missing from your analysis is what is called “Self Reflective Thinking”. Humans can think about their thoughts and feelings. Go ahead try it.

Imagine what you did yesterday all day. What springs forth is a movie of the day. Next ask yourself how you feel about it and anything you liked or disliked. Next ask what you think about that feeling of formulating that thought, next ask how you feel about how you feel about thinking about that, and this goes on and on…then ask if you accept everything you did or you would change anything…animals can’t do this. Now what you can do that animals cannot do is step outside of that experience of thinking and feeling and observe the sequence of thoughts and feelings and then modify the whole process. In other words, as we think so we believe, as we believe, so we act…and to change the action all you have to do is examine the belief and the action…conjur up the felling and then since you are in charge of your mind…change how you think and believe and your actions change…animals can’t do this.

So when, as there is possible, homosexuals that act…they think and feel about that…and in changing their behavior they can reflect on that and think and feel about that as they change and there is evidence that change can happen.

You may want to rethink this as this sort of analysis is adolescent.
 
someperson555 said:
what?? no its not, its GENETIC. its NOT a mental disorder. because of our fallen nature it is very possible to be born gay. some people are born retarded, some people are born with no eyes, others are born into the wrong gender. modern scientific research has shown strong evidence supporting that homosexuality is indeed biological. please educate yourself further on human biology, before making any assumptions.
the catholic church doesnt teach thar homosexuality is a mental disorder. because its not a mental disorder, its a biological disorder.
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Actually, it has never been proven that homosexuality is genetic. It is possible that genes play a role but I seriously doubt that it is entirely genetic. I believe that other influences such as parenting styles and what they see in the media and such also play a role. If a person has a tendency towards homosexual behavior and their parents encourage this and so does the media then it is very possible that the homosexual behavior could become deeply rooted to the point where they consider themselves to be homosexual. If they have a tendency towards homosexual behavior and it is not encouraged then it is possible that the person could end up like a bisexual who has same sex temptations but is also attracted to the opposite sex.

That said, nobody is born with the wrong gender. People just think they are. It is a disorder called gender identity disorder. It is a mental illness.
 
someperson555 said:
what?? no its not, its GENETIC. its NOT a mental disorder. because of our fallen nature it is very possible to be born gay. some people are born retarded, some people are born with no eyes, others are born into the wrong gender. modern scientific research has shown strong evidence supporting that homosexuality is indeed biological. please educate yourself further on human biology, before making any assumptions.
the catholic church doesnt teach thar homosexuality is a mental disorder. because its not a mental disorder, its a biological disorder.
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Some,

I have studied genetics, I have written, published, and read scientific articles.

I declare that there is no evidence that homosexuality is genetic.

I declare that homosexuality was at one time a mental disorder in the DSM and now is not and I know that the reason for removal was because of gay psychiatrists.

So I ask you to prove me wrong, pleae help me change my thougths and beliefs. I need facts to change this belief. I wait.
 
CopticChristian said:
…
I declare that there is no evidence that homosexuality is genetic. …
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If it was genetic, wouldn’t it show up in a homosexual’s pedigree somewhere? Otherwise, how would it get passed on to manifest itself in later generations? If it did occur in a previous generation, then how would it get passed on since homosexuals can’t reproduce biologically? Have there been any studies of particular individual family trees to find out?
I declare that homosexuality was at one time a mental disorder in the DSM and now is not and I know that the reason for removal was because of gay psychiatrists. …
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I had read about this a few years ago. You win if you get to define the terms. Sorta like the homosexual judge who declared CA’s Prop 8 unconstitutional.
What started as a demand for basic civil rights has mutated into a liberal demand to overturn the whole society, along with its traditions and norms, its standards and laws, its history and heroes.
 
sedonaman said:
🤷 Huh? Would you mind explaining the logic that led you to that conclusion?
“The time is sure to come when people will not accept sound teaching, but their ears will be itching for anything new, and they will collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes; and then they will shut their ears to the truth and will turn to myths.” – 2 Timothy, 4:3-4
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You have faith. Faith is not knowledge. Therefore you rationalize. And I see that you changed your signature! 🙂
 
Gaber said:
You have faith. Faith is not knowledge. Therefore you rationalize. …
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Now I get it. Sorta like liberals have faith that “diversity is our strength”, “multiculturalism is good”, “truth is relative”, and “homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle.”
To the Modern Liberal, indiscriminateness is a moral imperative. The only way to be moral is not to discriminate between right and wrong, good and evil, better and worse, truth and lies because an act of discrimination might be a reflection of personal bigotry. Indiscriminateness is a moral imperative because its opposite is the evil of having discriminated.
 
sedonaman said:
Now I get it. Sorta like liberals have faith that “diversity is our strength”, “multiculturalism is good”, “truth is relative”, and “homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle.”
To the Modern Liberal, indiscriminateness is a moral imperative. The only way to be moral is not to discriminate between right and wrong, good and evil, better and worse, truth and lies because an act of discrimination might be a reflection of personal bigotry. Indiscriminateness is a moral imperative because its opposite is the evil of having discriminated.
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Great signature line, sedonaman.

As a reaction to the part of your quote I bolded, it is being rammed in our throats, that the rest of society tolerate it. When I attended the recent religious freedom rally on the state Capitol steps, a speaker said no truer words,

Tolerance that goes one way is tyranny.

In following Gaber’s prattle, all of us who don’t agree with his pronouncements have to be ignoramuses. He has a claim to irrefutable knowledge … NOT.
,
 
InSearchofGrace said:
…As a reaction to the part of your quote I bolded, it is being rammed in our throats, that the rest of society tolerate it. …
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Actually, they want the rest of society not merely tolerate it but to validate it.
“When activists ask for tolerance, they are implicitly admitting that there is something wrong with their behavior. After all, you don’t need to ask people to ‘tolerate’ good behavior. Mother Teresa never had to ask for tolerance.” – F. Turek, Correct, Not Politically Correct
 
bri89 said:
I think all the people who allege there is a rise in homosexuality due to changing societal attitudes are wrong and contradict themselves. If people are really that susceptible to external influences persuading or inadvertently causing them to become homosexual, then people aren’ t born heterosexual in the first place. I’m confused. If we are hardwired gay or straight, then all a pro-gay social influence could do is make the gay kids gayer. I don’t think we are hardwired anything. We are just sexual, with the capacity to partake in various kinds of sexual activity. If we are that suggestible sexually as many on here seem to believe, then our sexuality is a pliable fluid thing, not hardwired.
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And actual experience bears this out. Many gays/lesbians come out after being in long term heterosexual relationships. We’ve even seen this played out in Hollywood with a celebrity lesbian switching and saying well she’s not lesbian after all and married a man. Societal influences are extremely powerful and making what was previously unacceptable behavior acceptable (or vice versa as with smoking!) can completely change society. Imagine a show like “Glee” in the days of Father Knows Best or Leave It To Beaver? It would not have happened.

Quite honestly all of this “out” behavior by homosexuals is IMHO a complete negative for society. How in the world could anyone say our society has benefitted by making abnormal and self destructive behavior something to brag about? Look at the headlines and this or that celebrity comes out like we have some interest or need to know about private matters in their lives. The unfortunate result of the lax of sexual mores in society are legion. I think we’d all benefit by putting everyone’s sex life ‘back in the closet’ where it belongs.

I watched an interview with a professor who has written a book about Kinsey and the incredibly detrimental effect his very poorly conducted “research” has had on not only our society but around the world. The man was frankly a pervert with no integrity, engaged in really disgusting behavior and yet his book was taken as gospel and a nudge to the sexual revolution. Human beings are just that…human. We are to reject the glamour of Satan but we don’t and it becomes even more difficult when everywhere you look really perverted and strange behavior is being championed as some kind of right.

Lisa
 
janman55 said:
I’m not sure that the Church teaches that it is a disorder, but rather disordered.
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Our Pope said in his letter on pastoral care of homosexual persons that homosexuality is an objective disorder.
Homosexuality is a behavior and not a condition.
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Homosexuality is a disordered inclination towards being sexually attracted to members of the same sex.
 
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