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CopticChristian
Guest
I posted this on this thread Post 57
**Once more how can there be a “gay gene” if homosexuals cant reproduce? **
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**Once more how can there be a “gay gene” if homosexuals cant reproduce? **
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LisaA
Guest
Coptic Christian they can and they do reproduce. Now two men or two women cannot reproduce but many lesbians use the same techniques I used to breed animals to have a child that is biologically a product of one of them. There are sperm banks aplenty if the lesbian doesn’t just get the cooperation of a friend…who might also be homosexual. Ditto with the males who can do the “rent a womb” gig. My understanding is that Elton John’s child is his biologically with the purchase of an egg and use of a woman’s womb to give the child life. It sadly puts creation of a human being down to the level of animal breeding but it does happen and frequently. Further many many homosexuals have had normal heterosexual relationships and have produced children in those relationships. I was very involved with show horses and many of the male trainers are homosexuals. Several of the most successful trainers were married (some multiple times) and had children before coming out as homosexuals.
That being said, I do not believe there is any credible evidence that homosexuality is inherited. Homosexuality is a behavior and while you might inherit a tendency to a particular behavior or to alcoholism or a mental illness, one is not born to be a homosexual (Lady Gaga is NOT the authority on this btw).
Lisa
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CopticChristian
Guest
Lisa,
People reroduce.
Homosexuality is behavior.
Alcoholism is behavior.
Murder is behavior.
Incest is behavior.
So Homosexuals do not reproduce. People reproduce with or without abberrant behavior.
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Do you think it is possible for someone to be attracted sexually to the same sex and not attracted to the opposite sex sexually at all?
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CopticChristian
Guest
Anything is possible I suppose. I suppose that some are attracted to their sex, the opposite sex, their sex and the opposite sex, their sex more than the opposite sex and who knows? Why?
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Homosexuality, id est homosexual orientation, refers to a condition where the person is mostly to entirely attracted to the same sex. How can unwilled attractions be behaviour?
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Hadrianus
Guest
There’s a gene for hemophilia, which hemophiliacs themselves cannot transmit.
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Hadrianus
Guest
And just one final point which it seems to me I have repeated ad nauseum: No scientist has ever claimed there is a “gay gene”. Whatever view people may take of homosexuals, can people on all sides of this argument please read some scientific literature rather than US magazine?
What has been suggested by serious scientific research is that a number of factors, certain genetic inheritance, hormonal influences in utero etc, may play a significant role in the homosexual orientation, just as such factors may contribute to all sorts of other human abnormalities. Neuroscientists, geneticists , biologists, are all making enormous strides in the understanding of the brain in merely the past decade.
Can all sides in this discussion not have the humility that when it comes to science, there is so much we just don’t know? Or is the whole point of these discussions simply to score “points” off each other?
What has been suggested by serious scientific research is that a number of factors, certain genetic inheritance, hormonal influences in utero etc, may play a significant role in the homosexual orientation, just as such factors may contribute to all sorts of other human abnormalities. Neuroscientists, geneticists , biologists, are all making enormous strides in the understanding of the brain in merely the past decade.
Can all sides in this discussion not have the humility that when it comes to science, there is so much we just don’t know? Or is the whole point of these discussions simply to score “points” off each other?
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tskrobacz
Guest
Alcoholism is a disease and an addiction. Our modern term for addiction is what they called Demon’s in biblical times. Many suffer from this disease.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. I’m quite sure our brothers and sisters in committed and loving homosexual relationships would not consider the gift of their life and their love to be a disorder.
We learn in John’s Gospel, the greatest love is not our love for God, it is our love for each other. “Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.” In the end, Love trumps any of our human ideas that stir division or oppression.
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Gaber
Guest
Well said, unpronuncable name!
“Disorder” is the name for a part of Natural order that someone doesn’t like. In the natural order of things there are variations, and even up to twelve actual gender orientations, not counting hermaphroditic presentations. Those are clearly and usefull dileniated in a book called The Clock of Sex, or some such. It is out of print and many yhears since I read it. It is just how God made things to ensure that each and every nook and cranny of experience is expereinced. I mean, is God “up there” conversing with Himself or St Peter saying "OH GOD, I can’t look! it’s just awful! Turn the channel!!!
The scope and ground of God is not determined by the narrow interpretations of a moral cookbook read by few and interpreted even more narrowly by people who have an institution’s face to save accorditng to beduin and mideaval levels of emotional and moral maturity. Gd is not so ininetesimally small minded as those who would stand in His place and wear His shoes.
But people, especially many faithful people who are inculcated in piety, are not patient with or accepting of the magnitude of the God they ignorantly worship. It is not so much their fault, as we are each brought up, necessarily, with some set of beliefs. But some of us take a second look and even are more interested in the Nutritional aspect of faith and religon than its forms and interpretive serving suggestions.
So it is interesting to find, amongst the preachers who advocate the murder, torture, and/or incarceration of gays in our Great Nation, to find this.
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Sex is still an inappropriate way to express their love
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tskrobacz
Guest
Thankfully, our God does not have such boundaries in the ways he expresses his Love for us!
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LisaA
Guest
This kind of platitude is what happens when we decide our opinions have the validity of God’s law. What the homosexual and his/her lover thinks about their sexual attractions is not particularly compelling. Have you ever heard a pedophile intereviewed? Many of them claim the child 'came on" to them or the child enjoyed the experince. There is an organization NAMBLA that promotes older homosexuals “rights” to have sexual relations with boys.
The greatest expression of love is therefore self sacrificing. How is it self sacrificing to succumb to one’s lustful desires? You have completely mistaken the application of this beautiful verse.
Lisa
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CopticChristian
Guest
Dakota,
You say the attraction is unwilled. How is it you came to believe this and where is the evidence for this. If something is happening that is unwilled then the will can be ordered to resist. I do not understand how you came to believe this.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Hadrianus,
The word is “multifactorial” and genetics is nothing more than conjecture when it comes to this disorder.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Tsk, Tsk,
Please do not invoke this error. Alcoholism is not a disease. You can read Stanton Peele, Phd, “The Diseasing of America” You can visit this post and read my findings and realize that this is not true.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=685746
If you want to invoke alcohol ingestion behavior realize that the bible says "drunkards do not inherit the kingdom, behavior that is not acceptable is a disqualifier.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Gaber,Well said, unpronuncable name!
“Disorder” is the name for a part of Natural order that someone doesn’t like. In the natural order of things there are variations, and even up to twelve actual gender orientations, not counting hermaphroditic presentations. Those are clearly and usefull dileniated in a book called The Clock of Sex, or some such. It is out of print and many yhears since I read it. It is just how God made things to ensure that each and every nook and cranny of experience is expereinced. I mean, is God “up there” conversing with Himself or St Peter saying "OH GOD, I can’t look! it’s just awful! Turn the channel!!!
The scope and ground of God is not determined by the narrow interpretations of a moral cookbook read by few and interpreted even more narrowly by people who have an institution’s face to save accorditng to beduin and mideaval levels of emotional and moral maturity. Gd is not so ininetesimally small minded as those who would stand in His place and wear His shoes.
But people, especially many faithful people who are inculcated in piety, are not patient with or accepting of the magnitude of the God they ignorantly worship. It is not so much their fault, as we are each brought up, necessarily, with some set of beliefs. But some of us take a second look and even are more interested in the Nutritional aspect of faith and religon than its forms and interpretive serving suggestions.
So it is interesting to find, amongst the preachers who advocate the murder, torture, and/or incarceration of gays in our Great Nation, to find this.
Your link takes you to a video that apparently supports gay marriage. The notes say Peter Gomes is gay. Do you support gay marriage?
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tskrobacz
Guest
Sexual perversion exists in both heterosexual and homosexual relationships. Committed love is another thing. Why do you find it necessary to relate this topic to pedophiles?
Giving oneself to another (self sacrificing) in a caring and committed way is in indeed the greatest expression of Love.
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tskrobacz
Guest
In my world there exists 12-Step programs (Alcoholics Anonymous, Alanon, etc) to help people overcome the effects of the disease of Alcoholism and other addictions. These programs are clearly the work of the Spirit.
Alcoholism has been recognized for many years by professional medical organizations as a primary, chronic, progressive and sometimes fatal disease.
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LisaA
Guest
You are completely and totally wrong. You are expressing your opinion, backed by neither natural law nor Scripture. Giving yourself to another in your view means engaging in an unnatural sexual activity. You really believe “scratching an itch” is self sacrificing love? Having homosexual relations is equivalent to laying down your life for a friend? You are raising lust to a sacrament. Please do some reading or speak to a Priest before making such unsubstantiated claims.
Lisa
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