The disorder of homosexuality

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LisaA said:
While the Church doesn’t need to justify itself,
Lisa
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If they make public claims about the nature of homosexuality to the extent of wanting to change public opinion on the matter, then they do need to justify themselves.
 
ReapReason said:
If they make public claims about the nature of homosexuality to the extent of wanting to change public opinion on the matter, then they do need to justify themselves.
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They have and do. The issue is that some refuse to accept what is true.
 
spencelo said:
I’m confused as to what you’re claiming now. Homosexuals aren’t “a species,” but members of one. So more accurately, your claim should be: “if members of a species engages in non-procreative acts it demonstrates a behavior that is destructive to the species.” But of course, you haven’t given me the slightest reason why I should think this. Do we humans have a low population problem? Is there any evidence that “non-procreative acts” – which, btw, aren’t restricted to homosexuals – are destroying our species? Please explain.

I don’t believe that biology shows what you think it shows.

Is sex always 100% safe? No. But sex can nevertheless be made reasonably safe with proper care and handling.

Not something you’ve demonstrated.

Depends on whether safe sex is practiced – same is true of heterosexual acts.

What’s the evidence for this claim? You’ve supplied none.
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I make a practice not to feed trolls. I’ve suggested several times that you read the prior posts where all of the above are dealt with. I’m not interested in spoon feeding you.

Lisa
 
spencelo said:
Btw, Lisa: In case you weren’t aware, the sexual acts homosexuals engage in are also ones that heterosexuals engage in as well (e.g., anal sex). So it’s not accurate to describe a certain sex act, like anal sex, as “homosexual” – as opposed to heterosexual. It would be more accurate to define “homosexual acts” as sexual activity between people of the same sex – not acts that are only practiced by homosexuals.

Do you object to some or all homosexual acts? I assume you object to anal sex, but what about kissing, fondling, cuddling, and oral sex? Are those acts “unsafe” as well?
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Again much of the medical info was dealt with previously. As to oral sex, are you aware there is an explosion of oral cancers and oral STDs? One of the nationally known homeless advocates was ‘outed’ because he spread oral gonorrhea to the young homeless men he was exploiting. Using one’s reproductive tract (both ends Spence) for an ailmentary canal or vice versa is self destructive. When foreign substances are introduced our bodies produce antibodies to the foreign substance. A woman’s reproductive tract has the chemistry to turn off this defensive mechanism. Frankly the EWWWWW factor on all of this discussion is a bit too much.

And you are correct, heterosexuals can engage in this behavior as well. However if one follows the teachings of the Church the kind of casual sex and promiscuity that is more prevalent in the homosexual (male) population is not going to be a problem for the monogamous married couple.

It’s not just the various acts Spence, it’s the entire ‘lifestyle’ of promiscuity, casual encounters (were you around for the SF bathouse scene?) drugs that are not simply a high but allow some very dangerous behavior (Frankie Goes To Hollywood) that not only spread these diseases but add to the evidence that our bodies were not meant to be used in this fashion.

To me it’s truly sad that you and your fellow apologists want so much to be approved of that you will turn yourself into a human pretzel to promote unhealthy behavior.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
I make a practice not to feed trolls. I’ve suggested several times that you read the prior posts where all of the above are dealt with. I’m not interested in spoon feeding you.

Lisa
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Translation: “I have no adequate response.”
 
tskrobacz said:
Perhaps it is you that have an agenda, Coptic Christian, since you search back over years to find my earlier posts and draw them into this topic? Let’s keep this on topic instead of making a personal attack.
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Tsk,

My dentist tells me that I need to brush after every meal, get my teeth cleaned, and floss. This is prophylaxes for tooth decay you know. I realize that I get one set of teeth, lost a few and have one that is an implant. This is probably my best tooth. I treasure my smile and you know I just got to take care of my teeth.

Eating healthy is as you know so important. People advertise junk food, introduce you to strange ways of eating and don’t care about what goes into their body. I do. Food is fuel. You need Protein, Carbohydrate and quite honestly if you avoided fat you would probably get plenty. This is prophylaxis for health.

I don’t wear pants during the summer. In fact I wear shorts year round. I was thinking of wearing Kilts. I thought, why not? Who would say anything? They wear them in Scotland and what the heck they are probably cooler than shorts and this is prophylaxis for the heat.

I am rambling…but anyway…here is my agenda. You know there are moderators on this forum that are watching everything that someone posts…yupppp…big brother is out there…I admit I was openly uncharitable and I learned from this. I have also seen many that continue to post and have questions answered and continue to push their agenda. They get banned. You are pushing your agenda.

So, Tsk…here it is….this is Catholic Answers….many people come looking for answers…others not…some come looking to debate and then when asked to answer a question are vague and do not yield any understanding……pushing their agenda…now Tsk I like you….I feel for you….I sense you are searching…and my agenda is “truth”…I am dedicated to truth decay as it regards the teachings of the OHCAC…and I see you supporting homosexuality with an intent to suggest that it is acceptable…in need of brushing, flossing, and a bit of mouthwash…OK…
 
Gaber said:
Spencelo, you rascally spirit. You remind me of the cartoon where Jacob is wrestling the angel and it is captioned: “And lo, the angel said to Jacob, (while using Jacob’s own hands as weapons against him,) ‘Why doest thou pummel thineself with thine own hands?’”
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Guys, could we hold the graphic analogies, please? :eek: It’s really not necessary to the argument.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Right? (I think you meant the addition in blue.) 😉
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Elizabeth,

I am impressed, I thought no one was proof reading me…good job…let’s all

PREVENT TRUTH DECAY…read the Bible, the Catechism and learn the teachings of the OHCAC…👍
 
CopticChristian said:
Tsk,

My dentist tells me that I need to brush after every meal, get my teeth cleaned, and floss. This is prophylaxes for tooth decay you know. I realize that I get one set of teeth, lost a few and have one that is an implant. This is probably my best tooth. I treasure my smile and you know I just got to take care of my teeth.

Eating healthy is as you know so important. People advertise junk food, introduce you to strange ways of eating and don’t care about what goes into their body. I do. Food is fuel. You need Protein, Carbohydrate and quite honestly if you avoided fat you would probably get plenty. This is prophylaxis for health.

I don’t wear pants during the summer. In fact I wear shorts year round. I was thinking of wearing Kilts. I thought, why not? Who would say anything? They wear them in Scotland and what the heck they are probably cooler than shorts and this is prophylaxis for the heat.

I am rambling…but anyway…here is my agenda. You know there are moderators on this forum that are watching everything that someone posts…yupppp…big brother is out there…I admit I was openly uncharitable and I learned from this. I have also seen many that continue to post and have questions answered and continue to push their agenda. They get banned. You are pushing your agenda.

So, Tsk…here it is….this is Catholic Answers….many people come looking for answers…others not…some come looking to debate and then when asked to answer a question are vague and do not yield any understanding……pushing their agenda…now Tsk I like you….I feel for you….I sense you are searching…and my agenda is “truth”…I am dedicated to truth decay as it regards the teachings of the OHCAC…and I see you supporting homosexuality with an intent to suggest that it is acceptable…in need of brushing, flossing, and a bit of mouthwash…OK…
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You presume I have such an agenda because I don’t parrot the party line like you and so many here and choose instead to draw from my experience? Surely you have heard of primacy of conscience? As I stated previously, it is not possible (ever) for everyone to understand and believe the teachings of the Catholic church in the exact same manner - whether they are Catholic or not. Your ethnocentric perspective may be strictly speaking “compliant” with the CCC, however it is certainly not universal.

Although the first principle of Catholic morality is that “You must follow your conscience”, we usuallly immediately override it with the second principle, which is that “You must form your conscience (Through Scripture, tradition, and prayer), which I surely agree with. It balances individualism with community. But let’s never forger the FIRST principle is still first!
 
tskrobacz said:
You presume I have such an agenda because I don’t parrot the party line like you and so many here and choose instead to draw from my experience? Surely you have heard of primacy of conscience? As I stated previously, it is not possible (ever) for everyone to understand and believe the teachings of the Catholic church in the exact same manner - whether they are Catholic or not. Your ethnocentric perspective may be strictly speaking “compliant” with the CCC, however it is certainly not universal.

Although the first principle of Catholic morality is that “You must follow your conscience”, we usuallly immediately override it with the second principle, which is that “You must form your conscience (Through Scripture, tradition, and prayer), which I surely agree with. It balances individualism with community. But let’s never forger the FIRST principle is still first!
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Tsk,

Your fist and only post led me and anyone that reads it that you are Catholic and yet you designate yourself ECC. I am not aware of the first principle. I am old. I am a Cradle Catholic. I am just old Joe Six pack in the pews…show me that I might understand this first principle and how you came to know it…also…

What is ECC?

Does your first principle perceive that Homosexual behavior is unacceptable? Yes or No.

If you choose not to answer the second question then understand then by abstention that is a No. Ok…
 
tskrobacz said:
The word of the living God…
might come from the mouth of Abraham
might come from the mouth of Jesus
might come from the mouth of Mohamed
might come from the mouth of the woman at the well or from mouth of the Buddha

The word of the living God…
might come from the mouth of a Poet, from a child
**Sometimes, the word of the living God comes from our own mouth
in those moments that we express what we did not know we knew

This is the word of the living God.
It knocks the bottom out of what we thought reality to be
the truth of this living word discloses, evokes hours, no - a life time, of pondering**
This heart felt pondering sustains the Spirit led upheaval that leaves us without any solid footing in our ultimately unsubtantial ego self.
Riding the waves of this upheaval leads us to an utter calmness
a peace that surpasses understanding.

The word of God is like that
it tips over mountains
it drains the sea
it dissolves the foundations of who we thought ourselves to be.
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Now Tsk,

You are really going to have a problem here. I read the Bible now and again and as you know as a member of the OHCAC do not subscribe to Sola Scriptura…but when I read "in many and various ways God has spoken to us through His prophets…but in these last day He has spoken to us through His Son…I cannot connect to what you say…

Then there are the Protestants…OOOwheee…now these guys, particularly the fundamentalists are going to take issue with you about the word coming from our own mouth and then you are going to have to confront them…because for these dudes…the Bible is the last authority and you are trekkking on some real delicate issues here…fella…

Then you have the fringes…some ol boy is gonna read this and believe it and then you are going to have one guy speaking and one guy writing…proclaiming that the guy over there is a speaking the Word of God…and the guy over there is a writing the word of God and they are going to go and form their own religion…they will be a standin and a sayin and askin…and a tellin…and you know how that goes and whooaa Nelly…what will be next…

I suggest you explain this proposition…OK…
 
CopticChristian said:
Tsk,

Your fist and only post led me and anyone that reads it that you are Catholic and yet you designate yourself ECC. I am not aware of the first principle. I am old. I am a Cradle Catholic. I am just old Joe Six pack in the pews…show me that I might understand this first principle and how you came to know it…also…

What is ECC?

Does your first principle perceive that Homosexual behavior is unacceptable? Yes or No.

If you choose not to answer the second question then understand then by abstention that is a No. Ok…
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I’m not interested in being your spiritual director. I suggest you find a good one and delve into your spirituality…it will move you away from ego-based, religious thinking.

ECC is a label - I’ll remove it if it provides you reason to question my intentions or sincerity.

Principles do not perceive…they provide us foundation for reasoning and conscience formation.
 
tskrobacz said:
You presume I have such an agenda because I don’t parrot the party line like you and so many here and choose instead to draw from my experience? Surely you have heard of primacy of conscience? As I stated previously, it is not possible (ever) for everyone to understand and believe the teachings of the Catholic church in the exact same manner - whether they are Catholic or not. **Your ethnocentric perspective may be strictly speaking “compliant” with the CCC, however it is certainly not universal. ** !
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So despite the very clear statements in Catholic teaching regarding homosexuality, you think there is room for a different interpretation…that engaging in homosexual relations is not disordered? It seems pretty straightforward and not very nuanced.
tskrobacz said:
Although the first principle of Catholic morality is that “You must follow your conscience”, we usuallly immediately override it with the second principle, which is that “You must form your conscience (Through Scripture, tradition, and prayer), which I surely agree with. It balances individualism with community. But let’s never forger the FIRST principle is still first!
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Forgive my ignorance…“First follow your conscience…” Are you kidding? That makes a god of your brain waves and let’s face it, there are plenty of consciouses that have allowed unspeakable acts. I suspect people like Jerry Sandusky slept perfectly well at night. So you think we should follow our conscious as the first principle? I would vote dead wrong on that one.

Lisa
 
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