" The Dolan Decree - New York archbishop lays down the law on SAME-SEX Marriages "

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Note that in dealing with private persons regardless of political or public status the Catholic Church normally prefers to deal with individuals at a personal and private level, at least until all avenues of communication have been exhausted.
 
DCNBILL said:
Note that in dealing with private persons regardless of political or public status the Catholic Church normally prefers to deal with individuals at a personal and private level, at least until all avenues of communication have been exhausted.
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When a person causes a public scandal, they must be dealt with on a public level.
 
A_Catholic said:
Fair enough. But I do feel the good Archbishop has closed the barn doors after the horses have already gotten out.
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Yes and No.

I read that Gov Cuomo was at a gay function and promised to help spread gay marriage across the Country. (He is not satisfied with his own State.)
nytimes.com/2011/10/28/nyregion/gov-andrew-m-cuomo-calls-for-same-sex-marriage-in-all-states.html?_r=1

If this is accurate, no Catholic (including other politicians) who wishes to remain in the Church from the NY Diocese will be able to help him. 😃

It is very very very important that we support Abp Dolan, and get other faithful Bishops to do the same. Decree in their own Diocese.

The pro-gay marriage liberals will force as much through all State and Federal Legislators as possible. These people don’t care that State after State who have had referendums have turned down gay marriage.
And at the Federal level, any laws passed will requiire the signature of Obama, and we know that if it is immoral, he will sign it into law.

The Dolan Decree will stop many Catholics in NY in their tracks. This is the clearest and best teaching communication I have seen from the Archbishop.
The date of the Dolan Decree is mid-Oct; the date Cuomo said he wants to spread gay marriage throughout the US was in late Oct.

If any New Yorkers see Cuomo receiving Holy Communion, report it to Abp Dolan’s NY office.
The same is true of any Catholic Priests or Laity who support gay marriage.

Let’s pray for the good and faithful Bishops who have the “guts” to publically stand up for the Church and her teachings.
 
CCC - " 1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them.
In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication. "

If Cuomo has been told he may not receive the Sacrament of the Eucharist by his Bishop, he has been excommunicated.
 
A_Catholic said:
When?
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  1. On March 8th Gov. Cuomo met with Archbishop Dolan and other NY state bishops. While Dolan would not discuss private matters discussed with the Cuomo this meeting was on the heels of the “scandal” of Cuomo receiving communion. Highly unlikely it didn’t come up.
  2. Over the summer I happened to be at an event and table that Bishop Hubbard was at. The situation came up in conversation and Bishop Hubbard said that he and Dolan had discussed the issue and Dolan had spoken to Cuomo about the issue.
  3. I am unaware of any new “scandal” involving Cuomo and communion since the March 8th meeting so given 1 & 2 it would seem Cuomo has been ask not to receive communion and has obliged…
 
A_Catholic said:
When a person causes a public scandal, they must be dealt with on a public level.
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The Church has not chosen to deal with it this way. Practically every bishop deals privately with these issues…
 
ANNE_2 said:
If Cuomo has been told he may not receive the Sacrament of the Eucharist by his Bishop, he has been excommunicated.
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No, that is incorrect. Those are separate and distinct issues. Dr. Edward Peter’s addresses that here.

Secondly, calling this “The Dolan Decree” is a bit of an exaggeration. Other dioceses have sent out similar letters to their clergy and simply haven’t been in the news for it.
 
I think this is just the Bishop’s attempt at halting the constant incrementalism that has been happening for years. He is drawing a line and saying same sex marriage will not be allowed past that line.

There is also a possibility that some Catholics might simply be confused about this subject.
 
_Abyssinia said:
Good. But why nothing about excommunicating or denying communion to Gay ‘marriage’ advocates like Andrew Cuomo?
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A bishop does not have the authority to excommunicate for that which Canon Law does not provide the penalty of excommunication. In other words, Canon Law does not recognize this as an excommunicable offense.

The bishop can impose canonical sanctions such as suspending clergy, prohibiting the celebration of mass in a certain chapel or the preservation of the Blessed Sacrament. He can take away the title “Catholic” from an institution.

Excommunication can only happen if

a) Canon Law says that excommunication is the penalty for this offense.

b) The pope imposes it

or

c) A male major superior of a Pontifical Religious Order requests it

The issue here is not whether the Governor or someone is for same sex marriage or same sex unions, the prohibition is directed to clerics, religious and employees of the Church. It also covers the use of Church property and the use of liturgical materials. The Governor is not an employee of the Archdiocese of NY. He can push anything he wants, even though he is wrong to do so.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
NewEnglandPries said:
No, that is incorrect. Those are separate and distinct issues. Dr. Edward Peter’s addresses that here.
Secondly, calling this “The Dolan Decree” is a bit of an exaggeration. Other dioceses have sent out similar letters to their clergy and simply haven’t been in the news for it.
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The “Dolan Decree” was used as the Title from the Article.
It is posted on the Abp’s web site.
Do you have an example of other letters like this on other Bishops’ Diocese web site.
Letters mean nothing if the faithful in the Diocese do not know it exists.
Please supply links to others Diocese. Thank you.
 
Let us not forget exactly what “excommunication” means -

CCC - " 1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which** impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, **and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them.
In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication. "

Code of Canon Law - - -
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P39.HTM
" Can. 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty ** and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion. "**

The Bishop has full authority to enforce Canon 915 in his own Diocese. He does not need the Pope’s permission.
 
NewEnglandPries said:
  1. On March 8th Gov. Cuomo met with Archbishop Dolan and other NY state bishops. While Dolan would not discuss private matters discussed with the Cuomo this meeting was on the heels of the “scandal” of Cuomo receiving communion. Highly unlikely it didn’t come up.
  2. Over the summer I happened to be at an event and table that Bishop Hubbard was at. The situation came up in conversation and Bishop Hubbard said that he and Dolan had discussed the issue and Dolan had spoken to Cuomo about the issue.
  3. I am unaware of any new “scandal” involving Cuomo and communion since the March 8th meeting so given 1 & 2 it would seem Cuomo has been ask not to receive communion and has obliged…
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I hope you’re right, but I still think that for the sake of others, Cuomo needs to be called out publicly for what he has done and stood for, which is in complete opposition to the Church.

As far as any new “scandal”, what do you call signing the same sex marriage bill and then calling for its implementation not just in NY but throughout the US? Seems like a pretty big scandal to me.
 
JReducation said:
A bishop does not have the authority to excommunicate for that which Canon Law does not provide the penalty of excommunication. In other words, Canon Law does not recognize this as an excommunicable offense.

The bishop can impose canonical sanctions such as suspending clergy, prohibiting the celebration of mass in a certain chapel or the preservation of the Blessed Sacrament. He can take away the title “Catholic” from an institution.

Excommunication can only happen if

a) Canon Law says that excommunication is the penalty for this offense.

b) The pope imposes it

or

c) A male major superior of a Pontifical Religious Order requests it

The issue here is not whether the Governor or someone is for same sex marriage or same sex unions, the prohibition is directed to clerics, religious and employees of the Church. It also covers the use of Church property and the use of liturgical materials. The Governor is not an employee of the Archdiocese of NY. He can push anything he wants, even though he is wrong to do so.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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So I guess that means as lay Catholics, we can do anything we want to do and not be held responsible and not bear any consequences? Abortion, freemasonry, denouncing the church, calling for women priests, married clergy - no big deal. And that is especially true if we are public figures?

You state that “Excommunication can only happen if a) Canon Law says that excommunication is the penalty for this offense.”

Well, since Cuomo is pushing for abortion, and is in effect aiding those who want an abortion, he would seem to be guilty.

**Canon 1398: “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” *

Also:

*Canon 1364 §1: “an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” **

These would seem to say that even if the bishops won’t do it publicly, Cuomo has in effect excommunicated himself. Also, I think it is safe to say that anyone who is not in a state of grace, i.e., in a state of mortal sin, has excommunicated him or herself because they cannot receive the sacraments of the Church, although, of course, they do not need an official lifting of that excommunication.
 
ANNE_2 said:
Let us not forget exactly what “excommunication” means -

CCC - " 1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which** impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, **and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them.
In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication. "

Code of Canon Law - - -
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P39.HTM
" Can. 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty ** and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion. "**

The Bishop has full authority to enforce Canon 915 in his own Diocese. He does not need the Pope’s permission.
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Thank you! 👍
 
JReducation said:
The Governor is not an employee of the Archdiocese of NY. He can push anything he wants, even though he is wrong to do so.
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The governor may be free to act as he wants but the bishop has no such freedom; he has obligations he must fulfill.

Can. 1369 A person who in a public show or speech, in published writing, or in other uses of the instruments of social communication utters blasphemy, gravely injures good morals, expresses insults, or excites hatred or contempt against religion or the Church* is to be punished** with a just penalty.*

Ender
 
A_Catholic said:
I hope you’re right, but I still think that for the sake of others, Cuomo needs to be called out publicly for what he has done and stood for, which is in complete opposition to the Church.
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You’re free to think that way, however, almost every bishop in the world handles it differently. They aren’t looking to cause a war with politicians.
As far as any new “scandal”, what do you call signing the same sex marriage bill and then calling for its implementation not just in NY but throughout the US? Seems like a pretty big scandal to me.
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Please note what I actually wrote. I wrote that there hasn’t been a new scandal involving Cuomo and communion.
 
ANNE_2 said:
The “Dolan Decree” was used as the Title from the Article.
It is posted on the Abp’s web site.
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I understand that but its an exaggeration since other dioceses have similar “rules.”
Do you have an example of other letters like this on other Bishops’ Diocese web site.
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No, because most dioceses simply issue them to their priests and administrators. They don’t issue them to the press. Secondly, this issue only applies to states that have some form of gay marriage or civil unions.
Letters mean nothing if the faithful in the Diocese do not know it exists.
Please supply links to others Diocese. Thank you.
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Why? What is to be gained by the faithful knowing that their parish hall can’t be used for a gay marriage or reception?
 
ANNE_2 said:
Code of Canon Law - - -
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P39.HTM
" Can. 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty ** and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion. "**

The Bishop has full authority to enforce Canon 915 in his own Diocese. He does not need the Pope’s permission.
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Canon 915 is NOT excommunication, it is a discipline of the sacrament. Being denied communion under canon 915 is NOT excommunication.
 
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