The Dress Code for the Vatican - Should it be Universal?

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maryjk said:
I voted no. But really there wasn’t a choice that match what I thought.

I feel the Vatican rules are great…for the Vatican. Everyone has to remember, people going into St Peter’s aren’t all Catholic, by any means. AND aren’t going for Mass. They are tourists, going into a tourist location. The dress code you show here is the same one used for the Vatican museum. So you know that the dress code isn’t because they are walking into a church. \QUOTE]

Actually the rules at the Vatican are in place specifically because visitors will be entering churches in the museums. You’ll see tourists in the museums with bare shoulders but when they get to the Sistine they will throw a shawl over their shoulders. The guards at the entrance to the Sistine enforce this.
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I said yes based on the fact that because immodesty is so acceptable in society and even amongst practicing Catholic’s the Church should become a bastion for modesty and encourage other’s ESPECIALLY Catholic’s to practice it. I think those that said yes do not recognize that immodesty is immoral
 
Paddy1989 said:
I said yes based on the fact that because immodesty is so acceptable in society and even amongst practicing Catholic’s the Church should become a bastion for modesty and encourage other’s ESPECIALLY Catholic’s to practice it.** I think those that said yes do not recognize that immodesty is immoral**
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Or don’t think that a skirt that is an inch above the knee is immodest. 🤷
 
maryjk said:
Or don’t think that a skirt that is an inch above the knee is immodest. 🤷
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Of course you have to generalize when it come’s to modesty, a small bit above the knee which isn’t noticeable anyway isn’t immodest but several inches and more is, so it just need’s to be kept in a certain ratio
 
I voted no for the reasons that many others have stated about cultural differences. I believe this dress code is acceptable for the Vatican and may be acceptable standards for most of Western culture, but to require these standards of dress in all corners of the Earth seems to go to far.
 
But, there should be a emphasis on modesty everywhere. Non-western cultures have their standards, so they can work with a set of rules too.

Blessings!

🙂
 
Chiltepin said:
I voted no for the reasons that many others have stated about cultural differences. I believe this dress code is acceptable for the Vatican and may be acceptable standards for most of Western culture, but to require these standards of dress in all corners of the Earth seems to go to far.
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Agreed. And on a day like today for much of the eastern U.S. are we going to frown on men who are wearing some nice shorts to daily Mass or on Sunday when the heat index is expected to hit 105F or 110F.

That’s hot. Like seriously hot. There are a lot of parishes elsewhere in the world dealing with that kind of heat all the time; think they’re wearing long pants? I doubt it.

Modest dress everywhere? Absolutely. Formal? No. What should be formally attired is your heart and soul as presented to God when you go to Mass. If you have the financial means and can tolerate weather conditions so as to allow you to wear a nice suit or formal dress to every Mass you attend, more power to you. Just don’t wear a blazer when it’s 110F and pass out in the middle of the service. That doesn’t help anyone.
 
I voted yes, with the caveat that accomodation should be made for different tribal cultures where our clergy (local bishops and priests) saw it fit to make such accomodation.

Should our clergy set a different rule, for example, for Native American tribal cultures on the American continent, that would make an exception to the general rule. Other than that, I enthusiastically support the idea of posting and enforcing the Vatican’s dress code everywhere.

P.S. What disturbs me, though is “hats for lay men inside the basilica”. Does this mean baseball caps for men inside the Catholic churches would be banned? :eek: That seems too harsh to me! 😉 😃
 
L_piperatus said:
I voted yes, with the caveat that accomodation should be made for different tribal cultures where our clergy (local bishops and priests) saw it fit to make such accomodation.

Should our clergy set a different rule, for example, for Native American tribal cultures on the American continent, that would make an exception to the general rule. Other than that, I enthusiastically support the idea of posting and enforcing the Vatican’s dress code everywhere.
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So you would send someone home from Mass because their skirt was a inch above the knee?

I guess we are suppose to welcome the sinner, but not if they don’t dress to your standards. :rolleyes:

All I can say is that I am glad there isn’t anyone at our church door doing inspections.
 
maryjk said:
So you would send someone home from Mass because their skirt was a inch above the knee?

I guess we are suppose to welcome the sinner, but not if they don’t dress to your standards. :rolleyes:

All I can say is that I am glad there isn’t anyone at our church door doing inspections.
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I’m with you. I don’t see any modesty issues in the parishes I frequent but I suppose everyone’s mileage may vary on this. While I’m certain there are problems here and there please do note one very important thing: They’re attending Mass. Would you be happier if they were not attending Mass? Because I assure you that plenty of our fellow Catholics are only so in name and are not in the pews every week, which is far worse than a young woman wearing something a bit too revealing because she thinks she looks “cute” in it. I’d take the one in the pew with the too-short-skirt over the many who don’t come and don’t care.
 
maryjk said:
So you would send someone home from Mass because their skirt was a inch above the knee?

I guess we are suppose to welcome the sinner, but not if they don’t dress to your standards. :rolleyes:

All I can say is that I am glad there isn’t anyone at our church door doing inspections.
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(bolded emphasis mine)

It’s not my standards - it’s the Vatican’s standards. And that’s the point.
 
Booter said:
I chose no not because I don’t believe in modesty but I hate the idea of a bouncer at the door of a church judging everyone who walks in the doors…what if a homeless guy who comes to Mass with no sleeves gets thrown out cause he looks like he’s not homeless…people just have to be reasonable…unfortunately many are not with their dress
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There wouldn’t have to be a bouncer. The honor system would suffice. At least people would know the expectations. It’s not as if the deacon would have to be standing in back with a measureing tape.
 
L_piperatus said:
(bolded emphasis mine)

It’s not my standards - it’s the Vatican’s standards. And that’s the point.
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The point is that its the Vatican standards, for the Vatican not for the whole Church. It would be really really easy for the Pope to come out and say," by the way, I expect every Catholic to follow these standards of dress when they go to Mass". But he doesn’t. One must ask why, the answer being that the Vatican does not see a need for a universal dress code. Most likely for the reason given here of the many different cultures and climates that people live in. 🤷
 
I think it’s a great idea for churches to set some standards. I think, in this day and age, when there is no longer a concept of innate modesty in society, it should be addressed first of all from the pulpit. Priests need to guide their people in this area and let people know what they expect and why.
 
And what would the point be? To keep out folks, mostly women because these dress codes mostly go after women’s fashions, in the name of “modesty”? How very Christ-like.

Are we Catholics really this petty?

The minute I find a dress code posted outside my church is the minute my famly and I find another parish. I go to church to be with Christ, not to people watch or be the women’s modesty police. A posted dress code would only encourage parishioners to police skirt and sleeve lengths.

And the ushers would do, what? Tell miscreants to get out? Would they become bouncers who stand outside before Mass and cull the herd? That would do wonders to increase Mass attendance, I’m sure. And what about the woman who insists her skirt is long enough? Who’s going to be the one to tell her to get out of God’s house? Better start looking for some muscular, intimidating ushers who know how to deal with irate people.

And someone had better give the bishop a heads up because when the fact that people are being turned away from Mass because of their clothing choices hits the media he’s going to be asked to comment. And really, the Church isn’t criticised enough in the media these days. Let’s give folks yet another reason to dump on us.

The Vatican can get away with it because it’s the Vatican. It’s got the resources and capacity to be able to post and enforce a dress code. The average parish doesn’t.

At the end of the day I ask: Doesn’t the average Catholic - lay and religious - have enough to do than try to roll out a dress code in their parish?

Luna
 
Luna_Lovecraft said:
And what would the point be? To keep out folks, mostly women because these dress codes mostly go after women’s fashions, in the name of “modesty”? How very Christ-like.

Are we Catholics really this petty?

The minute I find a dress code posted outside my church is the minute my famly and I find another parish. I go to church to be with Christ, not to people watch or be the women’s modesty police. A posted dress code would only encourage parishioners to police skirt and sleeve lengths.

And the ushers would do, what? Tell miscreants to get out? Would they become bouncers who stand outside before Mass and cull the herd? That would do wonders to increase Mass attendance, I’m sure. And what about the woman who insists her skirt is long enough? Who’s going to be the one to tell her to get out of God’s house? Better start looking for some muscular, intimidating ushers who know how to deal with irate people.

And someone had better give the bishop a heads up because when the fact that people are being turned away from Mass because of their clothing choices hits the media he’s going to be asked to comment. And really, the Church isn’t criticised enough in the media these days. Let’s give folks yet another reason to dump on us.

The Vatican can get away with it because it’s the Vatican. It’s got the resources and capacity to be able to post and enforce a dress code. The average parish doesn’t.

At the end of the day I ask: Doesn’t the average Catholic - lay and religious - have enough to do than try to roll out a dress code in their parish?

Luna
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First off, why would it have to be policed? The Altar Society puts up signs on the garbage cans saying “deposit your gum here before entering the church”, but nobody has ever seen an usher confisicating chewing gum.
 
Serap said:
I said no. It’s not necessary for all churches. The Vatican is the Vatican.
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👍

It was already in the mid-80’s at 7:00am this morning. There’s no way I could have worn long pants if I’d gone to Mass today. I once went to an 11:00am Mass in long sleeves & pants in 90+ degree weather and nearly passed out, so I don’t see an issue with respectable shorts and short sleeves.
 
Modesty is far more than not showing skin.

Modesty in dress includes:
  • not looking flashy.
  • not showing off.
  • not trying to stand out.
  • not spending too much money on clothes.
Modesty regarding the amount of skin showing is very fluid and depends on culture and climate.
 
Joe_5859 said:
I don’t really agree with the explanations offered in the poll as reasons for the “Yes” or “No” as they don’t match my thoughts.

I’m all for modesty, but I think that attempting to implement a universal Catholic dress code world-wide would go over like a lead balloon.

It makes sense to have such a dress code at St. Peter’s because that is the “definitive” (for lack of a better word) Catholic Church. To turn a parish’s ushers into bouncers at every Catholic Church in the world would be disastrous.
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This:thumbsup:
 
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