The Dress Code for the Vatican - Should it be Universal?

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I don’t hope to convert anyone…I’ve seen girls in booty shorts and tube tops, skin tight, low cut shirts at Mass. It’s down right disrespectful and inappropriate. They might as well have shown up in a bikini.

A question was asked, I answered it with my opinion, just the same as you did. All I want to know is why such opposition to going to Church (mostly) covered? Other than, it’s hot, it’s not achievable, people won’t come to Mass…In my opinion, these aren’t good enough reasons
 
CroCatholic said:
I don’t hope to convert anyone…I’ve seen girls in booty shorts and tube tops, skin tight, low cut shirts at Mass. It’s down right disrespectful and inappropriate. They might as well have shown up in a bikini.

A question was asked, I answered it with my opinion, just the same as you did. All I want to know is why such opposition to going to Church (mostly) covered? Other than, it’s hot, it’s not achievable, people won’t come to Mass…In my opinion, these aren’t good enough reasons
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I think the fact that people would be driven from coming to Mass is a grave concern. How is that not a good enough reason?
 
Joe_5859 said:
I think the fact that people would be driven from coming to Mass is a grave concern. How is that not a good enough reason?
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If someone refused to go to Mass because they weren’t allowed to wear a mini skirt, their motives for being there are questionable in the first place.

If the Vatican decided that all Catholics had to wear floor length robes and cover their heads to attend Mass, you better believe that I’d be shopping for burkas. That’s the problem, some people will find any tiny stumbling block to “quit” Church. People should be attending Mass because they desire that closeness with God. So having to wear a certain style of clothing should be irrelevant…
 
CroCatholic said:
If someone refused to go to Mass because they weren’t allowed to wear a mini skirt, their motives for being there are questionable in the first place.

If the Vatican decided that all Catholics had to wear floor length robes and cover their heads to attend Mass, you better believe that I’d be shopping for burkas. That’s the problem, some people will find any tiny stumbling block to “quit” Church. People should be attending Mass because they desire that closeness with God. So having to wear a certain style of clothing should be irrelevant…
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Yes, some people “quit” Church for the silliest of reasons. I’ve heard a lot of them, including someone who hasn’t been to Mass in 25 years because Fr. So-and-So wouldn’t let them borrow six tables from the parish hall for their kid’s graduation party.

But I think we can do better than simply saying, “Well, you weren’t there for the right reasons anyway, so good riddance.” The Holy Father has been emphasizing more and more the need for a “New Evangelization”, to reach out to those who have heard the Gopsel but have fallen away. We want to bring them back so that they can get to that point where the desire for intimacy with the Lord consumes them. That doesn’t happen overnight.

Yes, people can find any tiny stumbling block. But we should not be in the business of providing those stumbling blocks but rather removing them.
 
CroCatholic said:
If someone refused to go to Mass because they weren’t allowed to wear a mini skirt, their motives for being there are questionable in the first place.

If the Vatican decided that all Catholics had to wear floor length robes and cover their heads to attend Mass, you better believe that I’d be shopping for burkas. That’s the problem, some people will find any tiny stumbling block to “quit” Church. People should be attending Mass because they desire that closeness with God. So having to wear a certain style of clothing should be irrelevant…
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The question is, should we be enforcing stumbling blocks onto them?

You seem to assume that those who are against a universal dresscode for Church are against being modest. This simply does not follow, especially seeing as this poll was written with such a ridiculous slant in the first place, assuming that anybody who would oppose a universal dress code must be against modesty. :rolleyes:

I have absolutely 0 problem with a particular parish putting up guidelines for dress and having the priest give a homilies on the importance of modesty and chastity. What I have a problem with is a universal dress code or the idea of dress codes being enforced to the point where people are either refused entry or seriously embarrased. (Forcing them to put on more layers would definately be seriously embarrasing to some) I don’t even have a problem with a Church having shawls and coverups available for those who see the dress code and then wish they had some sort of cover up, I think its an excellent idea to have coverups available in places where guidelines are published, but people should not be forcing others to wear them.
 
Joe,

I stated in previous posts that no one should be expelled from Mass for not following the proposed dress code. My thoughts are, you lead by example. If the majority started dressing more conservatively, those who really want to be there will follow suite… If someone “boycotts” Mass because they can’t dress provocatively, this is a completely different issue. They’re not receptive to the message at that time, and are in need of prayer more than anything else. When and if they’re ready to hear the message, they’ll be back…
 
thewanderer said:
The question is, should we be enforcing stumbling blocks onto them?

You seem to assume that those who are against a universal dresscode for Church are against being modest. This simply does not follow, especially seeing as this poll was written with such a ridiculous slant in the first place, assuming that anybody who would oppose a universal dress code must be against modesty. :rolleyes:

I have absolutely 0 problem with a particular parish putting up guidelines for dress and having the priest give a homilies on the importance of modesty and chastity. What I have a problem with is a universal dress code or the idea of dress codes being enforced to the point where people are either refused entry or seriously embarrased. (Forcing them to put on more layers would definately be seriously embarrasing to some) I don’t even have a problem with a Church having shawls and coverups available for those who see the dress code and then wish they had some sort of cover up, I think its an excellent idea to have coverups available in places where guidelines are published, but people should not be forcing others to wear them.
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Neither do I. If one priest addresses the issue in his Parish, one shouldn’t assume that applies universally, which the OP is trying to accomplish, it applies only to his specific Parish.
 
thewanderer said:
The question is, should we be enforcing stumbling blocks onto them?

You seem to assume that those who are against a universal dresscode for Church are against being modest. This simply does not follow, especially seeing as this poll was written with such a ridiculous slant in the first place, assuming that anybody who would oppose a universal dress code must be against modesty. :rolleyes:

I have absolutely 0 problem with a particular parish putting up guidelines for dress and having the priest give a homilies on the importance of modesty and chastity. What I have a problem with is a universal dress code or the idea of dress codes being enforced to the point where people are either refused entry or seriously embarrased. (Forcing them to put on more layers would definately be seriously embarrasing to some) I don’t even have a problem with a Church having shawls and coverups available for those who see the dress code and then wish they had some sort of cover up, I think its an excellent idea to have coverups available in places where guidelines are published, but people should not be forcing others to wear them.
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I have made no assumptions that anyone opposing dress codes is against modesty. My issue is that with no clear cut regulations, people interpret things as they see fit. You say sleeveless is okay, someone will show up in spaghetti straps. You say shorts are okay, some one will show up with their butt hanging out the bottom. I’ve seen it happen…

As I said before, a dress code is only a stumbling block if you chose to let it be.
 
thewanderer said:
The question is, should we be enforcing stumbling blocks onto them?

You seem to assume that those who are against a universal dresscode for Church are against being modest. This simply does not follow, especially seeing as this poll was written with such a ridiculous slant in the first place, assuming that anybody who would oppose a universal dress code must be against modesty. :rolleyes:

I have absolutely 0 problem with a particular parish putting up guidelines for dress and having the priest give a homilies on the importance of modesty and chastity. What I have a problem with is a universal dress code or the idea of dress codes being enforced to the point where people are either refused entry or seriously embarrased. (Forcing them to put on more layers would definately be seriously embarrasing to some) I don’t even have a problem with a Church having shawls and coverups available for those who see the dress code and then wish they had some sort of cover up, I think its an excellent idea to have coverups available in places where guidelines are published, but people should not be forcing others to wear them.
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👍
 
Joe_5859 said:
Like I said before, I’m all for modesty. “Dressing up” is something that people have always done for things that are important. I think Mass is very important, so I always encourage dressing up.

That said, I have a hard time believing that advocates of this universal dress code have really thought things through. Do we really imagine that this would have a positive impact on the Church? I can see the headlines now: “Who Cares about the Poor? Catholic Church Wants To Make Sure Knees Are Covered”. People would get angry. People would feel alienated. And for what? To promote the universal truth that bare knees and shoulders are an affront to the Lord?

Further, do we really imagine that the Pope and bishops could implement this? They have trouble enough even getting priests to stop ad libbing some of the prayers of the Mass. And priests have promised obedience to their bishops! What hope would there be for getting the laity to get on board with this?

Again, I emphasize that I’m all for modesty. I think priests can speak to this issue to their flock. They can catechize people on the importance of modesty. They might even see it as opportune to institute a dress code for their own parish. But universally? The entire world? One billion Catholics? Good luck with that.
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It seems to me that the Philippines, a country of 90+ million people, has universally accepted a dress code.proposed by their Ministry for Liturgical Affairs. The poster below is ubiquitous in Filipino churches and on Filipino websites:



I believe we should learn from the Philippines. I have seen this same poster being used by Filipino churches in Manila, Mindanao, and Malaybalay. Btw, the poster is essentially in full harmony with the Vatican’s instructions. Priests in the Philippines put this poster in front of their churches, on their churches’ websites, and they instruct their parishioners about how to dress modestly for church, and for Mass.

I truly don’t get it. Is the weather any hotter and any more humid in America, than in the Philippines? Why can the Filipino people abide with a dress code, and we in the USA and Canada can’t? Why are the Filipinos humble enough to LISTEN and OBEY their bishops and priests, but we can’t expect to be instructed and abide with a dress code? Why are we in America these thin-skinned, egotistic cry-babies?
 
L_piperatus said:
Why can the Filipino people abide with a dress code, and we in the USA and Canada can’t? Why are the Filipinos humble enough to LISTEN and OBEY their bishops and priests, but we can’t expect to be instructed and abide with a dress code?
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What are you talking about??

There IS no dress code to abide BY.
 
Debora123 said:
What are you talking about??

There IS no dress code to abide BY.
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Filipino men also often treat their wives badly. I know. I am surrounded by Filipino women and have one living in my home.

This is not a “must dress as” code…they will not get turned away at a Filipino church.
 
CroCatholic said:
I have made no assumptions that anyone opposing dress codes is against modesty. My issue is that with no clear cut regulations, people interpret things as they see fit. You say sleeveless is okay, someone will show up in spaghetti straps. You say shorts are okay, some one will show up with their butt hanging out the bottom. I’ve seen it happen…

As I said before, a dress code is only a stumbling block if you chose to let it be.
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I’m sorry if I misunderstood you, but it certainly appeared as though you were implying that from some of your statements. The fact someone is against the Vatican standards of dress being applied as a universal dress code implies absolutely nothing about whether they approve of the Vatican dresscode for their parish, or even their country. All it necessarily means is that they do not think a dress code is something that should be applied as a universal rule from the top down. Heck, it doesn’t even mean they would have a problem with it being applied in every single parish throughout the world, so long as it was an initiative from within the parish and not an obligation handed to the parish from Rome. You have at least assumed that those who are against the idea of a universal dress code are against the specifics of the dress code the Vatican has published for the Vatican. This simply does not follow.

And sure, a dress code is only a stumbling block if you choose to let it be, but so is immodest clothing, immodest clothing is only a stumbling block for men if they choose to let it be, if they fall it** is **their own fault. The point is that in both cases we are to make an effort to avoid providing stumbling blocks to others. So just as we should be careful to try and dress modestly we also should be careful not to make people feel unwelcome at Church because they dress differently than us. 🤷 Thats not to say that a Church can’t have guidelines for dress, as I’ve said before, I have zero problem with this, so long as it is done charitably and is either an initiative from the parish, or diocese itself and not a universal law applie strictly to all Catholics everywhere.
 
Priests should be addressing the issues of basic modesty and decency for both genders from the pulpit and in the bulletin in regards of the way people dress for Holy Mass. Yes, it is important that we are there for Mass. Those who say the way we dress for Mass does not matter are not the ones to listen to at all in my opinion.

No one says dress to the nines, dress formally, dress in expensive clothes, and/or dress fancy. Lets not look like we are not ready for the beach, the pool, the bar/pub/dance club, the street corner, playing sports, or cutting the grass/gardening types of activities when attending Mass. Good and decent modest clothing for both genders/all ages can be found inexpensively at garage sales, thrift/charity shops, Ebay, consignment stores and clearance racks at regular stores without having to pay full price.
 
Here’s another similar dress code - this one from a church in Malaysia - quote from the website of Divine Mercy Roman Catholic Church in the city of Sungai Ara - cdm.my/proper-attire-inside-the-church/ :

Proper Attire Inside the Church
  1. September, 2011
***The Eucharist is the source and summit of the Christian life.

(LG no 11)***
  1. Our dignity as baptized children of God.
“For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.”

[Gal 3:27]
  1. The sacredness of the Church as the House of God and the Eucharistic celebration urge all participants to dress and manifest the importance of what they are doing.
“The mystery of the Eucharist has found historical expression not only in the demand for an interior disposition of devotion, but also in outward forms meant to evoke and emphasize the grandeur of the event being celebrated.”

[Ecclesia de Eucharistia, no. 49]

http://www.cdm.my/images/proper.jpg

http://www.cdm.my/images/improper.jpg

So, again, the Malaysians are men enough (women enough) to deal with the heat, and still dress modestly. And again, humble enough not to get offended by the instructions they received, requiring them to dress modestly.

But we in America fear offending the parishioners?

Something is very, very, very wrong with America, if this is truly the case. We can’t possibly keep God’s blessings and stay a great nation with this kind of unruly, disobedient, arrogant attitude. Our own lack of humility, our lack of obedience, our egotism will lead to our own downfall, if we continue like this.
 
L_piperatus said:
(Snip)

So, again, the Malaysians are men enough (women enough) to deal with the heat, and still dress modestly. And again, humble enough not to get offended by the instructions they received, requiring them to dress modestly.

But we in America fear offending the parishioners?

Something is very, very, very wrong with America, if this is truly the case. We can’t possibly keep God’s blessings and stay a great nation with this kind of unruly, disobedient, arrogant attitude. Our own lack of humility, our lack of obedience, our egotism will lead to our own downfall, if we continue like this.
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First of all, which American, may I ask, are you currently refering to as being offended by the instructions they have received requiring them to dress modestly? Where are these instructions requiring Americans to dress according to a particular standard that you seem to think Americans are ignoring?

Also, Where are you getting the idea that people are against dressing modestly??? What people have spoken out against is a universal dress code. Read my previous post to CroCatholic if you want to understand better the difference between disagreeing with the standards set by Rome and disagreeing with the idea of a Universal dress code
 
thewanderer said:
First of all, which American, may I ask, are you currently refering to as being offended by the instructions they have received requiring them to dress modestly? Where are these instructions requiring Americans to dress according to a particular standard that you seem to think Americans are ignoring?

Also, Where are you getting the idea that people are against dressing modestly??? What people have spoken out against is a universal dress code. Read my previous post to CroCatholic if you want to understand better the difference between disagreeing with the standards set by Rome and disagreeing with the idea of a Universal dress code
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I was respoding to this, by Joe5859:

“I can see the headlines now: “Who Cares about the Poor? Catholic Church Wants To Make Sure Knees Are Covered”. People would get angry. People would feel alienated.”

I don’t know whether Joe5859’s analysis is correct. But if he is correct, we are in deep trouble. In that case, we have become totally arrogant crybabies with no sense of humility, no sense of obedience, and no sense of duty. In that case, we aren’t any better than the stale water that God will spit out of his mouth.
 
MissRose73 said:
Priests should be addressing the issues of basic modesty and decency for both genders from the pulpit and in the bulletin in regards of the way people dress for Holy Mass. Yes, it is important that we are there for Mass. Those who say the way we dress for Mass does not matter are not the ones to listen to.

No one says dress to the nines, dress formally, dress in expensive clothes, and/or dress fancy. Lets not look like we are not ready for the beach, the pool, the bar/pub/dance club, the street corner, playing sports, or cutting the grass/gardening types of activities when attending Mass. Good and decent modest clothing for both genders/all ages can be found inexpensively at garage sales, thrift/charity shops, Ebay, consignment stores and clearance racks at regular stores without having to pay full price.
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Exactly:thumbsup:
 
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