The Dress Code for the Vatican - Should it be Universal?

[catholictiger]

Communion in the tongue optional?

I think the Vatican standard should be followed everywhere. Communion in the hand was given an indult (enforced suspiciously in places like Colombia and Argentina) and is not something desirable. I hope that the problem should be solved soon.

Blessings!

I don’t think communion in the hand is the best option, but we must understand that in this country communion in th eland is becoming a widely used practice, we of course should push to move to communion on the tongue only but it is such a huge move to make that we should continue to allow it in the hand.

Plus most people still are reverent when receiving in the hand, and if someone is irreverent a priest can address it on the spot. A lot of times at weddings and funerals people try to walk away with Christ, and a priest if he notices simply walks over and say consume the host and don’t let them walk away. The priest can’t catch everyone but hopefully they are looking out for it. I think it would create to much uproar to change it to tongue only in some of the non conservative but not liberal churches. Only a SMALL portion of people walk away with the host and a priest should be able to make sure everyone receive the host and put it into his mouth.

 

[Portrait]

Dear catholictiger,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your lengthy response above. It is quite late now and I must retire to bed as I am so very tired, but I will reply to your post tomorrow, God willing.

Briefly, in many respects we are in agreement, my dear brother, and are,I think, singing from the same hymn book. It is just that we have a different view as to how the issue of immodest attire should be brought to people’s notice. Homilies and parish magazines are certainly highly appropriate mediums to broach the topic of seemly aparrel in church, as are private confabs with offending parishioners.

God bless you, dear friend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[catholictiger]

Dear catholictiger,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your lengthy response above. It is quite late now and I must retire to bed as I am so very tired, but I will reply to your post tomorrow, God willing.

Briefly, in many respects we are in agreement, my dear brother, and are,I think, singing from the same hymn book. It is just that we have a different view as to how the issue of immodest attire should be brought to people’s notice. Homilies and parish magazines are certainly highly appropriate mediums to broach the topic of seemly aparrel in church, as are private confabs with offending parishioners.

God bless you, dear friend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

I had a feeling we did.

God bless

 

[EasterJoy]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------I’d say the inmates running the asylum – are the ones threatening to throw out anyone who does not fit their standard of “modesty”. Might as well start a “cast” system – where the “undesirables” are not fit to enter the temples.

I’m responding to a post in which you implied that someone must need professional help if he finds it a distraction to prayer when women not only refuse to cover themselves up but actively strive to put their bodies and their sexuality on display. We have women who choose their clothing specifically to flaunt their bodies, to want to be thought “sexy” even when they’re at church, who specifically want to grab the attention of men–you do read the advertisements and hear other women talk, so don’t deny this is what is happening!–and then when someone objects to being manipulated in the exact way intended, they’re accused of having a psychological problem and of covering their mental disorder with false piety!

That was an outrageous accusation!

 

[Walking_Home]

I’m responding to a post in which you implied that someone must need professional help if he finds it a distraction to prayer when women not only refuse to cover themselves up but actively strive to put their bodies and their sexuality on display. We have women who choose their clothing specifically to flaunt their bodies, to want to be thought “sexy” even when they’re at church, who specifically want to grab the attention of men–you do read the advertisements and hear other women talk, so don’t deny this is what is happening!–and then when someone objects to being manipulated in the exact way intended, they’re accused of having a psychological problem and of covering their mental disorder with false piety!

That was an outrageous accusation!

---

We are not in a position to know – the interior motives of a person. So – If I were to encounter someone not dressed appropriately – I would rather see them as a child of God – created in his image – and not point fingers-- that they are flaunting their bodies.

 

[Debora123]

I’m responding to a post in which you implied that someone must need professional help if he finds it a distraction to prayer when women not only refuse to cover themselves up but actively strive to put their bodies and their sexuality on display. We have women who choose their clothing specifically to flaunt their bodies, to want to be thought “sexy” even when they’re at church, who specifically want to grab the attention of men–you do read the advertisements and hear other women talk, so don’t deny this is what is happening!–and then when someone objects to being manipulated in the exact way intended, they’re accused of having a psychological problem and of covering their mental disorder with false piety!

That was an outrageous accusation!

The problem here is that these responses are not particularly aimed at women who dress extremely provocatively to Church specifically to try to get people to lust. Women who do that are in the vast minority anyway. (personally, I have never seen anyone dress extremely provocatively to Church )

We are talking here about women who wear sleeveless shirts to Church, or skirts/dresses that expose the knees. Such as this, for example:

http://content.nordstrom.com/imagegallery/store/product/large/1/_6357681.jpg

I agree with WalkingHome. People who are so fixated on a pair of knees or bare arms to such a degree probably have a few issues to sort out.

 

[Debora123]

---

We are not in a position to know – the interior motives of a person. So – If I were to encounter someone not dressed appropriately – I would rather see them as a child of God – created in his image – and not point fingers-- that they are flaunting their bodies.

This is also a key point.

Just because we may see someone who is not dressed to our personal standard of modesty, does not give us the right to assume that they are dressed that way purposely to make other people lust.

Our job is not to point fingers or to put blame, but to assume the best and move on about our day.

 

[catholictiger]

This is also a key point.

Just because we may see someone who is not dressed to our personal standard of modesty, does not give us the right to assume that they are dressed that way purposely to make other people lust.

Our job is not to point fingers or to put blame, but to assume the best and move on about our day.

and also if if we are given the opportunity to evangelize them and tell them why dressing modestly when going to mass.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is also a key point.

Just because we may see someone who is not dressed to our personal standard of modesty, does not give us the right to assume that they are dressed that way purposely to make other people lust.

Our job is not to point fingers or to put blame, but to assume the best and move on about our day.

If someone says, “I want to look sexy”, then I fail to see how it is jumping to conclusions to take them at their word.

 

[catholictiger]

The problem here is that these responses are not particularly aimed at women who dress extremely provocatively to Church specifically to try to get people to lust. Women who do that are in the vast minority anyway. (personally, I have never seen anyone dress extremely provocatively to Church )

We are talking here about women who wear sleeveless shirts to Church, or skirts/dresses that expose the knees. Such as this, for example:

http://content.nordstrom.com/imagegallery/store/product/large/1/_6357681.jpg

I agree with WalkingHome. People who are so fixated on a pair of knees or bare arms to such a degree probably have a few issues to sort out.

personally as a priest while I don’t think that is appropriate but that outfit really isn’t that bad, it should be longer but I fully expect that women would think she is dressing nicely and appropriately for mass. I think for someone like her just simply saying wear a slightly longer dress will get her to change. Doesn’t even have to come from a priest, a friend could easily convince her.

 

[Debora123]

and also if if we are given the opportunity to evangelize them and tell them why dressing modestly when going to mass.

Honestly, going up to a random stranger in mass and saying “excuse me, your clothes are not modest enough for mass in my opinion… you ought to cover yourself up more,” will accomplish nothing except awkwardness and probably anger in the other person.

If someone did that to me in mass, my first thought would be “wow, really? who in the world does this person think he is? Is this a joke??”

 

[thewanderer]

If someone says, “I want to look sexy”, then I fail to see how it is jumping to conclusions to take them at their word.

Well… sometimes people don’t always mean the same thing by sexy.

For many people I think it pretty much just means beautiful, for others it means specifically something that will get men focused on them. If people are really only thinking of the former when they say it (which can easily happen) then it is unfair to assume bad motives on their part.

 

[Walking_Home]

Originally Posted by catholictiger
and also if if we are given the opportunity to evangelize them and tell them why dressing modestly when going to mass.

---

I agree.

 

[Debora123]

personally as a priest while I don’t think that is appropriate but that outfit really isn’t that bad, it should be longer but I fully expect that women would think she is dressing nicely and appropriately for mass. I think for someone like her just simply saying wear a slightly longer dress will get her to change. Doesn’t even have to come from a priest, a friend could easily convince her.

Well then we can agree to disagree because I think that dress is a very nice dress and perfectly fine for mass. If anyone is going to have an uncontrollable fit of lust from this, then as I said, that person may possibly have some issues to sort out.

But this right here is a good example of one reason why the Church does not have a universal dress code. We are not all going to agree on what’s modest. There are people out there who think this dress is perfectly modest (me) and there are people out there who think going to mass with as much as your *hair *exposed is immodest (apparently there are still people out there who think it’s a sin for a woman not to wear a mantilla to mass).

So there we have it.

 

[EasterJoy]

---

We are not in a position to know – the interior motives of a person. So – If I were to encounter someone not dressed appropriately – I would rather see them as a child of God – created in his image – and not point fingers-- that they are flaunting their bodies.

OK, how do we know that someone who is bothered by revealing clothing must have a psychological problem requiring professional help? You’re applying a double standard. Why are you letting yourself off of that hook?

Besides, you have to admit there is a point at which there has been too much revealed. If Lady Godiva walked into Mass, would you think anyone who had a problem with that or finds it distracting needs professional help? She ought to just come like that every Sunday, and anyone who doesn’t like it can go get himself examined by a professional? Otherwise, where do you draw your line, and who made you holier than the Pope when it comes to deciding where the line ought to be? Considering how much he has to put on in order to say Mass, is he asking for that much?

Honestly, do you think a restaurant the doesn’t allow bikinis is pointing fingers at patrons who would come in dressed like that? No! They are only asking that patrons not draw attention to themselves. It does not really matter if the patron meant anything by it or not. Somebody can be distracting without intending it, but they are still distracting.

Again, I’m not talking about throwing anybody out. I’m just very sick of hearing women talk about wanting “sexy” clothes in one breath and then condemning people who actually do find them sexy in the next and acting like they’re being persecuted for being women. What nonsense.

 

[Debora123]

If someone says, “I want to look sexy”, then I fail to see how it is jumping to conclusions to take them at their word.

Wanting to look sexy/attractive doesn’t necessarily mean you want people to actually *lust *after you. It just depends on what they mean, and it is not our job to assume the worst.

 

[Debora123]

Well… sometimes people don’t always mean the same thing by sexy.

For many people I think it pretty much just means beautiful, for others it means specifically something that will get men focused on them. If people are really only thinking of the former when they say it (which can easily happen) then it is unfair to assume bad motives on their part.

Exactly.

 

[catholictiger]

Honestly, going up to a random stranger in mass and saying “excuse me, your clothes are not modest enough for mass in my opinion… you ought to cover yourself up more,” will accomplish nothing except awkwardness and probably anger in the other person.

If someone did that to me in mass, my first thought would be “wow, really? who in the world does this person think he is? Is this a joke??”

that why only a priest and or friends could be able to do this.

 

[Debora123]

that why only a priest and or friends could be able to do this.

Perhaps, depending on the situation and on priest/friend’s approach.

I was specifically referring to people we see in mass, not to someone who’s close to us.

 

[Debora123]

OK, how do we know that someone who is bothered by revealing clothing must have a psychological problem requiring professional help? You’re applying a double standard. Why are you letting yourself off of that hook?

But that’s the point exactly. By some people’s standards of “revealing,” we are mainly discussing sleeveless shirts or dresses/skirts that show the knees.

If someone is so seriously troubled by seeing a pair of arms or a pair of knees, wouldn’t you wonder if perhaps there are certain issues there?