The Duggars Respond to Reports That Josh Duggar Was Accused of Child Molestation

[Lou2U]

I don’t think anyone is “making excuses” for him but he has repented and did go to counseling and has completely turned his life around and good gosh, what more do you expect? We as Catholics should understand forgiveness better than that. If we aired everyone’s dirty linen, I am afraid we’d be very shocked by some of it. Should we crucify him??? Basically that’s what they are trying to do. Would that make some people happy ? Let’s not cast any stones for fear they may one day be returned to us. God Bless, Memaw

Nowhere in my above post did I say Josh hadn’t repented. I don’t know if he had professional counselling and it states in the police report he did not go to a rehab for sex offenders. I did not say that Josh hasn’t been forgiven or that he should be “crucified”.

What I expect is for people to recognise the seriousness of the situation and not just say he was an “immature teenager”. I am not trying to judge Josh or throw stones at him. I am saying that these actions taken by him cannot be put down to his maturity level, and it should be stated for what it is: Molestation, not silly immature antics.

Lou

 

[LightBound]

I don’t think anyone is “making excuses” for him but he has repented and did go to counseling and has completely turned his life around and good gosh, what more do you expect? We as Catholics should understand forgiveness better than that. If we aired everyone’s dirty linen, I am afraid we’d be very shocked by some of it. Should we crucify him??? Basically that’s what they are trying to do. Would that make some people happy ? Let’s not cast any stones for fear they may one day be returned to us. God Bless, Memaw

Counseling? That’s questionable at best. Please take a look at this post from the big thread on World News on what kind of “counseling” the family says he had: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12998787&postcount=796

That’s why many of us are so outraged, although I don’t think anyone is trying to crucify him. He was under the control of his parents, who failed on this situation in an epic way.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Thank you very much for speaking out against the “boys will be boys” excuse that so many posters have made here. Although I am female, I also find this to be really insulting to teenage boys in general, to try to absolve Josh by framing is behavior as normal “stupid” teenage boy behavior.

When I was 13-14 years old, even the most minor, remotely sexual exploits were a major deal, whether it was catching a peek at a girl’s undergarments or realizing you’d inadvertently touched Dori’s breast when she tackled you on the playground. Some guys put a little more effort into making those accidental encounters happen, but everyone understood that if you intentionally groped a girl, it was wrong. That didn’t stop a few of them from trying to “cop a feel” whenever the situation arose. I know several guys who continued to behave that way into high school and college. I’m still friends with one of them, in fact. At the time, so many people excused that as boys being boys that, even though I was uncomfortable with it and knew it was wrong, I didn’t recognize it as anything other than creepy, childish behavior. Years later, with a little more wisdom under my belt and as I started reconnecting with old friends on Facebook, I found that a lot of my female friends from college won’t have anything to do with that particular friend because they still feel so victimized by his “harmless” juvenile behavior. Even though I know he no longer behaves that way, there is no way on earth I would ever let him spend time alone with my daughters, and I’ve been sure to prevent them from getting too close to him so that the idea of them hugging when he visits never crosses their mind.

I can’t help but get the impression that the people on here who are minimizing Josh’s behavior and speaking out in his defense view what he did as similar to what my friend did. “Sure, it was wrong, but he was young and curious.” Other than what I’ve already stated, I don’t know how to get it across that what happened in the Duggar home was far, far worse and in no way was it normal. To avoid repeating myself, just look at my previous post.

 

[masondoggy]

Jim Bob couldn’t even provide a name of where they sent him. Michelle contradicted him. Again, from the actual police report:

I’ve read the whole report a few times now. I’ll state again that it’s full of red flags (you know, on top of the actual admissions and remembrances of Josh molesting his sisters). I’ll also state again that I think a lot of people on here are clueless when it comes to child sexual abuse which, considering what’s happened in the Church, is inexcusable for Catholics.

Child sexual abuse is not the same as other crimes. It’s not a “one and done” type crime. It doesn’t stop because someone says they’re sorry. The effects don’t go away because someone says they’re sorry. It doesn’t occur in a vacuum. If it’s not stopped and treated properly, it typically doesn’t stop. It’s often a generational thing, meaning that there’s a good likelihood Josh was molested, that without proper treatment he’ll do it again, and that his victims all are at an increased risk of becoming offenders themselves.

To be absolutely clear, none of what I’m saying is uncharitable or un-Christian in any way. This is one of those crimes that aren’t like other crimes. It’s tragic, its effects are wide ranging and it can be “passed on” ensuring more perpetrators and victims. The responsible thing for the Duggars to have done would have been to have gone to the authorities, gotten Josh out of the house and then not bring him back until they’d gotten him legitimate, professional, certified counseling, and gotten the same for the girls. From the facts provided, there’s no good reason to believe any of that happened. Without proper handling of his prolonged, repeated abuse of multiple victims, there’s no reason to believe that he’s not at risk of re-offending.

I think I should also point out that none of what I’ve said is an indictment of or criticism of Josh. He absolutely needed (and likely still does) competent professional help. If he was abused himself (speculation, but based on the nature and breadth of his crimes, likely) then he was also a victim. That in no way excuses his behavior. But even if he wasn’t, four months of handyman work isn’t counseling or therapy. For the sake of him, his wife, his victims and his daughters, he needs a clean bill of mental health. Suggesting that him confessing his sins somehow makes up for that is ignorant, irresponsible and wrong.

Speaking of the Catholic Church’s abuse scandal, that brings up another point. That scandal broke out not too long before this happened. If Jim bob and Michelle spent any time following the news, they would have heard about it (I’m sure it was discussed in their circles). The biggest message anybody could have gotten out of that whole mess is that people who molest children do not stop with “I"m sorry”. They do it again. And again. And again.

There is no way those parents were not aware of that whole mess and here they proceeded to handle their own sex abuse crisis in the exact same manner as those Catholic Bishops. They had no excuse, they KNEW better. They KNEW the chances were very high that Josh would re-offend. They chose to protect him rather than their daughters.

 

[LightBound]

I don’t think anyone is “making excuses” for him but he has repented and did go to counseling and has completely turned his life around and good gosh, what more do you expect? We as Catholics should understand forgiveness better than that. If we aired everyone’s dirty linen, I am afraid we’d be very shocked by some of it. Should we crucify him??? Basically that’s what they are trying to do. Would that make some people happy ? Let’s not cast any stones for fear they may one day be returned to us. God Bless, Memaw

Counseling? forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12998787&postcount=796

 

[stinkcat_14]

I don’t think anyone is “making excuses” for him but he has repented and did go to counseling and has completely turned his life around and good gosh, what more do you expect? We as Catholics should understand forgiveness better than that. If we aired everyone’s dirty linen, I am afraid we’d be very shocked by some of it. Should we crucify him??? Basically that’s what they are trying to do. Would that make some people happy ? Let’s not cast any stones for fear they may one day be returned to us. God Bless, Memaw

He claims to have repented, although that is all we have is a claim. It is reasonable for people to be suspicious given the lack of evidence of repentance. In this case, evidence one way or another regarding repentance is difficult to get. So he could be a virtuous young man, or a rotten scoundrel, we just don’t know. Some say give him the benefit of the doubt, some say don’t give him the benefit of the doubt. Both are prudential judgements and neither one is clearly better or worse than the other.

 

[Walking_Home]

Speaking of the Catholic Church’s abuse scandal, that brings up another point. That scandal broke out not too long before this happened. If Jim bob and Michelle spent any time following the news, they would have heard about it (I’m sure it was discussed in their circles). The biggest message anybody could have gotten out of that whole mess is that people who molest children do not stop with “I"m sorry”. They do it again. And again. And again.

There is no way those parents were not aware of that whole mess and here they proceeded to handle their own sex abuse crisis in the exact same manner as those Catholic Bishops. They had no excuse, they KNEW better. They KNEW the chances were very high that Josh would re-offend. They chose to protect him rather than their daughters.

---

Yes – agree.

 

[masondoggy]

Bear in mind, however, that sexual abuse happens in nearly every culture, and sometimes, I would think, remains unreported.

We should be careful to neither excuse Josh Duggar’s behavior because he is “one of us,” nor indict him because he is “the other,” with regard to religion, politics, ethnicity, or social status. As I noted before, this is mainly a human drama in which punishment may be needed but not in the form of vindictiveness. Forgiveness, according to my faith’s beliefs, is something that primarily belongs to the victims of the crime, not to outsiders such as all of us, while repentance belongs to the perpetrator of the crime.

Very true, it does exist in every culture. But some cultures encourage it more than others. The boys in this culture are raised with an indoctrination regarding sex, purity, and male roles that is a ripe breeding ground for sexual offenses against women.

 

[Cider]

Speaking of the Catholic Church’s abuse scandal, that brings up another point. That scandal broke out not too long before this happened. If Jim bob and Michelle spent any time following the news, they would have heard about it (I’m sure it was discussed in their circles). The biggest message anybody could have gotten out of that whole mess is that people who molest children do not stop with “I"m sorry”. They do it again. And again. And again.

There is no way those parents were not aware of that whole mess and here they proceeded to handle their own sex abuse crisis in the exact same manner as those Catholic Bishops. They had no excuse, they KNEW better. They KNEW the chances were very high that Josh would re-offend. They chose to protect him rather than their daughters.

Well, I’d vaguely heard of it back when it broke. I don’t live in a metro area where there was a local issue and I wasn’t Catholic then. Some people here might be surprised to know this but not everyone follows church scandals especially when they aren’t a member of that church. I can tell you that the scandal wasn’t discussed in any of my circles at the time. I’ve actually read about it the most on CAF or other Catholic news sources once I started becoming interested in becoming Catholic.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

This thread is wandering. Please return to the topic of the original post

 

[Cider]

Very true, it does exist in every culture. But some cultures encourage it more than others. The boys in this culture are raised with an indoctrination regarding sex, purity, and male roles that is a ripe breeding ground for sexual offenses against women.

I’ve heard the same thing said about the Catholic church by some rabid anti Catholics, do you agree with them?

 

[masondoggy]

I’ve heard the same thing said about the Catholic church by some rabid anti Catholics, do you agree with them?

Catholism as a whole? No. But it is my understanding that it was an ongoing problem in the culture within some seminaries.

 

[Walking_Home]

meltzerboy:

Bear in mind, however, that sexual abuse happens in nearly every culture, and sometimes, I would think, remains unreported.

We should be careful to neither excuse Josh Duggar’s behavior because he is “one of us,” nor indict him because he is “the other,” with regard to religion, politics, ethnicity, or social status. As I noted before, this is mainly a human drama in which punishment may be needed but not in the form of vindictiveness. Forgiveness, according to my faith’s beliefs, is something that primarily belongs to the victims of the crime, not to outsiders such as all of us, while repentance belongs to the perpetrator of the crime.

Very true, it does exist in every culture. But some cultures encourage it more than others. The boys in this culture are raised with an indoctrination regarding sex, purity, and male roles that is a ripe breeding ground for sexual offenses against women.

---

I think the Catholic Church needs to become more aware of what is happening here in the West . The Church may have the impression that our civil laws offer sufficient protection to women and children from abuse – but as more of what is actually happening within certain “cultures” comes out into the open – It can be seen it is not the case.

Ex-Wife of a pedophile shares from her heart about mishandling of sex abuse cases at The Village Church and Josh Duggar

spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/05/23/ex-wife-of-pedophile-speaks-out-about-the-village-church-and-josh-duggar-sex-scandals/?utm_content=buffer9614b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[ToeInTheWater]

It seems those who are minimizing the impact of Josh’s actions are all assuming that we KNOW the family has moved on. We do NOT know that. The evidence that they have, is all based on information from (1) a heavily edited TV show that doesn’t show the Duggars having any significant conflicts at all, surely no one believes that is 100% true, and (2) statements from people who have reasons to claim this is the case, or even want this to be the case; the perp, the parents who protected him, and the woman who has to explain why she married and had kids with a guy who has a police report on file for sex abuse.

Note that even if Anna wanted to leave Josh at this point, she would have no way to support herself or the children, and the dynamics of many Christian courtships are such that they are treated much like betrothals were in Biblical times; ending a courtship is a major issue and women who do so are often seen as damaged goods, even in a “chaste” courtship, due to supposed emotional ties she likely formed with her ex.

We haven’t heard from the actual victims at all, we don’t even know exactly who they are. Though if we compare the ages of the victims in the police report with what we know of the Duggar kids’ ages now, we can probably make a good guess. I have chosen not to do so, however. If the victims want to speak, great, but if not, I would want to respect that as well.

hope they don’t put their show back on the air not just because of this but because those children always have and always will deserve privacy. Just like Jon & Kate I was so glad when the show got pulled because those children needed their private lives back. It’s nobody’s business 24-7 what goes on in their homes.

I DO agree with you there. Though unfortunately, Kate’s kids wound up pulled back into the spotlight when she decided to do “Kate Plus 8”, though from what I’ve heard that show doesn’t delve into the family’s daily lives as much as the original did.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I find it hard to accept that sometimes the “good guys” who stand up for values get trounced. But that does not mean they don’t deserve it. Just because we like them or feel like we know them, there is no reason to offer them any more excuses than we would the neighbor boy.

As I have stated before, I really respect you for your willingness to criticize the Duggar parents now, because I know you liked watching the show and defended them in the past.

To me, canceling the show isn’t anything about punishment. It’s about doing right by those girls. Knowing what I know about that family and the cult that they are a part of, I highly doubt those girls would have any true choice about participating in that show or not. And it would be horrific, after all this became public, for them to be forced to put a smile on their face and continue waving to the cameras like nothing is wrong. That would just be continuing the abuse, imo.

I agree as well. This is why I feel like throwing up my hands when I read posts and articles from people who assume “the family has moved on”, when they only have the words of Jim Bob, Michelle, Josh, and I suppose Anna to go by, to prove this. We haven’t heard anything from the actual victims themselves.

Unlike other Reality TV families such as the Gosselins or the Roloffs, which at least were honest about showing the conflicts between the parents as well as conflicts between the kids and the parents, the Duggars really tried to put on an impression that they were the perfect family, that they had no significant conflicts, that everyone got along; that they were morally and spiritually superior to the average family. I never believed that in the first place, even before I read stories such as the one about Jana wanting to quit the show and go to college. While I’m surprised at how sordid this story is, I can’t say I’m shocked that we found out that actually, the Duggars are far from perfect.

ETA: Walking Home, thanks for the link. I found this part to be especially relevant to this discussion:

Cheap grace & pseudo-repentance: All that the skillful and manipulative perpetrator must do is admit that he has “sinned” and seek restoration. Little thought seems to be given to verifying his version of the “sinful” events or of acknowledging the real seriousness of these crimes and the very real threat these perpetrators pose to innocent children. He says he is sorry, that he is all better now and church leadership takes him at his word. Our children pay the price for this stupidity.

Women & children are expendable: Because women and children are not valued as highly as the men in the community, their pain is not validated as significant as that of the males. Their wounds are not properly tended to; indeed they are often not even recognized. The unstated understanding is that women exist for a man’s pleasure–not too far from the women as property mentality!

Also, I think the idea of the family patriarch handling all offenses between family members “in-house” seems to bespoke an idea that children suffer LESS if they are harmed by family members, than if they are harmed by strangers. Apparently, better to take the risk that the wayward son continue to harm his sisters, than to get secular law enforcement involved and risk “breaking up the family” and put kids at risk of abuse from foster parents, “juvie” prison guards, etc.

I really think some people have taken from this episode the very wrongheaded idea that “I guess being molested as a kid doesn’t really scar girls for life after all! At least not girls from good Christian homes. Look at those Duggar girls! They’re so well-adjusted, so chaste. They’re not running around in halter tops, they’re not sleeping with a different man each week and having an abortion every year. Obviously they’ve moved on from what happened. Sure, what Josh did was bad, but he didn’t really cause lasting harm, just like a kid who vandalizes a car or buys beer while underage.”

 

[aloe]

Apparently no place for forgiveness either.

He’s now 27. The question is whether he’s repented, sought forgiveness, and made restitution. It sounds like all of this was done. His family has moved on. Why can’t others?

This is one of the worst things I have ever read on here. EVER. I don’t think I will be visiting these forums for a long time because of this. Things like “he seemed to have handled it well, etc.”
Handled it well?
Josh tried to cover it up (read the police reports and look at the timeline of the events), made jokes on camera about being from Arkansas (youtube, look it up), and he never wanted people to know and wanted people to treat him like he wasn’t a wolf in sheep clothing. His apology was all about himself and had a glossing of words of what he really did. I don’t call that handling it well.

The parents are negligent for not protecting at least 4 daughters from a sexual predator. They say they are so concerned about the girls not solo dating as to persevere their chastity. Yeah I guess that only is a concern for the Duggar family if it is not going on under their own roof otherwise how do you think they would have treated any male who was not related to them doing this over a period of years to 4/5 of their young daughters?

Are you even serious? It isn’t like this Josh Duggar guy had a consenting girlfriend his age or tried drinking or drugs. This is something else entirely and very abnormal and wrong, in the criminal reports it was called forcible. He was taking something from someone that was never his to take. And he was doing it over and over to his own sisters. That is not something to gloss over. EVER. That is sexual predator of non consenting young girls, most of who are related directly to him.

Words matter. He is a pedophile and apparently has a thing for incest that started in his teens, he preyed upon easy targets within his own family, little girls. There is a pattern.

Who are you suggesting has moved on? His victims who will suffer for the rest of their life from these repeated incidents and their parents not taking the proper steps to help? How about other children he will have access to, that is probably what Josh will “move on” to.

He abused for years (it wasn’t a one time incident) 4 out of the 5 sisters he had access to, mostly while they slept. They were all very young 12 - 4, yeah FOUR years of age. One particular incident in his criminal records was when he was reading the (just barely not a toddler) young girl a story. Now he has a daughter that age and will have more.

His apology was typically self centered and focused on “his” life, how he was messing up his life and was all about him. Nothing mentioned about the 5 girls who lives he destroyed who were preyed upon while they slept in their own home for at least a period of over 1,000 nights. He had continued access to them until he moved out and then they all still had to have frequent contact with him to this day.

The parents made more little girls for him to have access to while living under their roof. The girls were forced to play along and pretend it never happened if they wanted to be a part of the Duggar family, smiles for the camera, etc. Can you imagine how horrible that is for the girls? Have you ever been sexually abused as a young child or know anyone who has been? The victims don’t “just get over it and move on”. Less so when it happens repeatedly and those around them don’t really seem to care and they are not removed from the situation and given a voice.

This is why people leave the church and God because anyone who gives the “ok” and “let’s move on from this” to child molesters, pedophiles, and individuals who abuse others with incest for years is NOT a place or God any normal decent people with a real conscious ever want to be associated with. It is horrific.

 

[Jeanne_S]

This is one of the worst things I have ever read on here. EVER. I don’t think I will be visiting these forums for a long time because of this. Things like “he seemed to have handled it well, etc.”
Handled it well?
Josh tried to cover it up (read the police reports and look at the timeline of the events), made jokes on camera about being from Arkansas (youtube, look it up), and he never wanted people to know and wanted people to treat him like he wasn’t a wolf in sheep clothing. His apology was all about himself and had a glossing of words of what he really did. I don’t call that handling it well.

The parents are negligent for not protecting at least 4 daughters from a sexual predator. They say they are so concerned about the girls not solo dating as to persevere their chastity. Yeah I guess that only is a concern for the Duggar family if it is not going on under their own roof otherwise how do you think they would have treated any male who was not related to them doing this over a period of years to 4/5 of their young daughters?

Are you even serious? It isn’t like this Josh Duggar guy had a consenting girlfriend his age or tried drinking or drugs. This is something else entirely and very abnormal and wrong, in the criminal reports it was called forcible. He was taking something from someone that was never his to take. And he was doing it over and over to his own sisters. That is not something to gloss over. EVER. That is sexual predator of non consenting young girls, most of who are related directly to him.

Words matter. He is a pedophile and apparently has a thing for incest that started in his teens, he preyed upon easy targets within his own family, little girls. There is a pattern.

Who are you suggesting has moved on? His victims who will suffer for the rest of their life from these repeated incidents and their parents not taking the proper steps to help? How about other children he will have access to, that is probably what Josh will “move on” to.

He abused for years (it wasn’t a one time incident) 4 out of the 5 sisters he had access to, mostly while they slept. They were all very young 12 - 4, yeah FOUR years of age. One particular incident in his criminal records was when he was reading the (just barely not a toddler) young girl a story. Now he has a daughter that age and will have more.

His apology was typically self centered and focused on “his” life, how he was messing up his life and was all about him. Nothing mentioned about the 5 girls who lives he destroyed who were preyed upon while they slept in their own home for at least a period of over 1,000 nights. He had continued access to them until he moved out and then they all still had to have frequent contact with him to this day.

The parents made more little girls for him to have access to while living under their roof. The girls were forced to play along and pretend it never happened if they wanted to be a part of the Duggar family, smiles for the camera, etc. Can you imagine how horrible that is for the girls? Have you ever been sexually abused as a young child or know anyone who has been? The victims don’t “just get over it and move on”. Less so when it happens repeatedly and those around them don’t really seem to care and they are not removed from the situation and given a voice.

This is why people leave the church and God because anyone who gives the “ok” and “let’s move on from this” to child molesters, pedophiles, and individuals who abuse others with incest for years is NOT a place or God any normal decent people with a real conscious ever want to be associated with. It is horrific.

Aside from your last paragraph,I have to say,well stated!

 

[ringil]

I’ve heard the same thing said about the Catholic church by some rabid anti Catholics, do you agree with them?

The difference is that the truths of the Catholic Church are objectively true and those practiced by whatever religion the Duggars are, are not based in authentic Christian morality.

 

[kozlosap]

I don’t think anyone is “making excuses” for him but he has repented and did go to counseling and has completely turned his life around and good gosh, what more do you expect? We as Catholics should understand forgiveness better than that. If we aired everyone’s dirty linen, I am afraid we’d be very shocked by some of it. Should we crucify him??? Basically that’s what they are trying to do. Would that make some people happy ? Let’s not cast any stones for fear they may one day be returned to us. God Bless, Memaw

Memaw, from everything I’ve read over the weekend, Josh nor his victimized sisters received counseling from a licensed professional. His parents admit that “the counseling” was, in fact, being sent to a friends house in another town and doing construction work for several months. The lack of regards for his victims is astonishing. His apology did not mention once his victims. As a retired teacher who taught ninth grade for 35 years, I attest to all comers, that unless he is developmentally delayed, then he knew exactly what he was doing, and even had to make plans in order to carry out his molestations. Obviously, he is not developmentally delayed. I pray that his, oh so ignorant wife, will never leave him alone with their children.

 

[Faith1960]

Memaw, from everything I’ve read over the weekend, Josh nor his victimized r sisters received counseling from a licensed professional. His parents admit that “the counseling” was, in fact, being sent to a friends house in another town and doing construction work for several months. :

I think some posters said he went to a facility for counseling but stayed at the friends house while doing so. The friend had him doing work while he was there.