The Duggars Respond to Reports That Josh Duggar Was Accused of Child Molestation

[EmperorNapoleon]

So the article implies. If you read the police report, all the girls accept one had no idea he deliberately touched them. He was the one who told them that he deliberately touch them. The police only had his word that he did it. Accept the one girl, who may have interpreted an accidental touching as deliberate, the only evidence was Josh himself. What if he was an overly scrupulous 13 year old?

Repeatedly molesting his sisters and at least one other girl is criminal. That they didn’t realize what was happening is irrelevant particularly given their age and the sheltered life they lead.

 

[Faith1960]

I have never, ever cared for that show and never watch it. It is all about exploitation and money. It is like a contest to see how many babies that they can make. In this situation I sort of blame the parents because it makes sex and baby-making an occupation rather than a blessing. MY opinion and I am entitled to it.

Jim Bobs advice to is daughter’s and future husbands was "be fruitful and multiply " kinda creepy.

 

[gracepoole]

It was not a training center, which would be different from a counseling ministry. It was not a camp. I believe that they might have been friends with the person who ran the place.

Jim Bob had previously claimed he was sending Josh to a “treatment program.”

Did you read what I wrote above about Christian counselors in Arkansas? People often confuse Christian counselors with real mental health professionals.

Yup, I did read it. First Jim Bob said that he was sending Josh to a “Christian program in Little Rock,” that he couldn’t remember its name (seriously?), and that it “was conducted by a Christian ministry in the Old Veterans Hospital in Little Rock and the man who ran it was Harold Walker.” I don’t know whether Harold Walker was a Christian counselor. For now it seems we only have speculation that he was. But regardless, Michelle later said Josh was sent to remodel homes with a family friend and when asked whether this man was a certified counselor, she said no. This doesn’t remotely sound like a formal program run out of the Old Veterans Hospital by anyone with any training or experience in counseling – Christian or otherwise.

The Duggars are not highly educated people and their church counseled them against sending him to a secular mental health facility.

Yes, and this is what’s sad. They are definitely **not **well educated and they trusted church leaders who gave them bad counsel. Unfortunately, this doesn’t make them less culpable.

What he did was still reprehensible, but I think the Duggars handled it the best way they knew how.

And again, this doesn’t mean they’re any less responsible for handling it poorly. Their implicit trust in church leaders whose teachings violate everything known about molestation from a psychological standpoint was beyond misguided. It was negligible. I don’t want to unduly place blame on them knowing how ignorant they really are. But ignorance, unfortunately, isn’t an excuse in this scenario.

Time will tell if Josh was a 13 year old who made some stupid mistakes because he was curious about the female anatomy and didn’t know how to deal with it or rather he is a sick pervert.

Again, I think it’s incredibly important to note – no matter how we feel about the way in which the Duggars dealt with this issue – that Josh’s behavior is not simply about curiosity regarding female anatomy. All 13-year-old boys are curious about female anatomy. It’s something else entirely to actually violate a sibling while she’s sleeping.

Either way, I don’t think this should have been released to the media, because he was 13 years old when it happened.

I have mixed feelings about it being released for the simple reason that the Duggars should have better shielded themselves and essentially walked right into this (who keeps a letter detailing the whole thing in a book that he subsequently loans out to someone else?!). Yet for the sake of the girls especially, I wish the whole thing had never come to light.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

The real problem that he has and will always have to face is that what he did which was to sexually abuse his own siblings… is well known to have a pathological component. If he had been a teenage bully or thief or even a skirt chaser in the making… those things can be more easily put down to teenage struggles associated with hormones and things. To cross the boundary of serious taboo into the sexual assault of younger children who are your siblings… takes a severe disconnect in the personality in some way.

I really think that some people are minimizing the severity of what Josh did, and essentially normalizing non-consensual sexual activity as something that is “normal” for adolescents, especially adolescent boys, to experiment with. Dismissing such acts, which can have lifelong devastating impact on the victims, as “mistakes”, same as many did regarding Steubenville, I think, lends support to the arguments some people make that we “live in a rape culture”.

As for the point some have made that whoever leaked this information was maliciously trying to hurt the Duggars or score political points about the FRC; I ask, SO? Does that mean the information isn’t true? Jose Canseco didn’t write a book about PEDs out of love for the game, he did so for the sake of more money and fame, and maybe gain revenge against those he thought had wronged him. Yet, most of his allegations have been shown to be true, or at least very likely to be true. Just because someone doesn’t have altruistic motives to reveal secrets, doesn’t mean they’re lying.

I also don’t get the impression most people posting about this here, are trying to score political points.

ETA: I saw that gracepoole posted in a similar vein:

Originally Posted by Galnextdoor:
Time will tell if Josh was a 13 year old who made some stupid mistakes because he was curious about the female anatomy and didn’t know how to deal with it or rather he is a sick pervert.

Again, I think it’s incredibly important to note – no matter how we feel about the way in which the Duggars dealt with this issue – that Josh’s behavior is not simply about curiosity regarding female anatomy. All 13-year-old boys are curious about female anatomy. It’s something else entirely to actually violate a sibling while she’s sleeping.

THANK YOU for not contributing to the normalization of nonconsensual sexual abuse.

 

[Galnextdoor]

It was the officer friend, Cpl Hutchens I think his name was, who Jim Bob consulted in 2002 about Josh. He was the one who gave the ‘stern talk’ to Josh. No police report was made and Josh was sent to the builder friend for 3 months after that. The police reports made in 2006 when Oprahs company alerted them, was not one that related to the ‘stern talk’ by Cpl Hutchens who is the one now incarcerated for child porn.

According to the police report, Cpl Hutchins was not a “friend”, but an officer that the Duggar knew because Hutchins did State Inspections at the Duggars used car business. According to the police report, Josh was sent away to a Christian Ministry counseling place from March 17 to July 17, which is 4 months. The father stated at the time he thought he was sending him away for counseling and hard labor. (Christian Counselors do not need a license from the state of Arkansas.)

When he returned, he took him to the State Trooper. It was not their fault that Hutchins turned out to be a creep. Hutchins advised them that the program was enough and no further action needed to be taken.

 

[gracepoole]

Exactly. The only reason this is news is because of people who wanted to hurt the Duggars and FRC.

Um, I like the Duggars. I’ve seen every episode, read their books, scoured their web site for advice and recipes… I didn’t have a problem with Josh’s work with FRC. And I have a serious problem with what’s occurred.

He does not work with children.

He does have three (soon to be four) of his own…

 

[gracepoole]

So the article implies. If you read the police report, all the girls accept one had no idea he deliberately touched them. He was the one who told them that he deliberately touch them. The police only had his word that he did it. Accept the one girl, who may have interpreted an accidental touching as deliberate, the only evidence was Josh himself. What if he was an overly scrupulous 13 year old?

I’m not sure why this is worth noting several times. Does the fact that his victims were sleeping somehow make him less culpable? Does his acknowledgement of wrongdoing exonerate him?

 

[gracepoole]

I really think that some people are minimizing the severity of what Josh did, and essentially normalizing non-consensual sexual activity as something that is “normal” for adolescents, especially adolescent boys, to experiment with. Dismissing such acts, which can have lifelong devastating impact on the victims, as “mistakes”, same as many did regarding Steubenville, I think, lends support to the arguments some people make that we “live in a rape culture”.

EXACTLY. This isn’t a case of teenage mischief or hijinks, regardless of who this family is.

THANK YOU for not contributing to the normalization of nonconsensual sexual abuse.

I so wish it weren’t necessary to point this sort of thing out.

 

[Galnextdoor]

Jim Bob had previously claimed he was sending Josh to a “treatment program.”
Yes! He said he thought he was sending him to Christian Ministry treatment program, which I have explained that in Arkansas you can call yourself a Christian Counselor and practice without a mental health license. You just need a rink-ee -dink certificate awarded by taking some religious classes at a religious college.

Yup, I did read it. First Jim Bob said that he was sending Josh to a “Christian program in Little Rock,” that he couldn’t remember its name (seriously?), and that it “was conducted by a Christian ministry in the Old Veterans Hospital in Little Rock and the man who ran it was Harold Walker.” I don’t know whether Harold Walker was a Christian counselor. For now it seems we only have speculation that he was. But regardless, Michelle later said Josh was sent to remodel homes with a family friend and when asked whether this man was a certified counselor, she said no. This doesn’t remotely sound like a formal program run out of the Old Veterans Hospital by anyone with any training or experience in counseling – Christian or otherwise. The remodeling was the part that he considered hard labor. It says that it was run out of the Old Veteran’s Hospital **building ** and a police department also was in that building. It would have been easy for the police to check to see if they were lying.

Yes, and this is what’s sad. They are definitely **not **well educated and they trusted church leaders who gave them bad counsel. Unfortunately, this doesn’t make them less culpable.

And again, this doesn’t mean they’re any less responsible for handling it poorly. Their implicit trust in church leaders whose teachings violate everything known about molestation from a psychological standpoint was beyond misguided. It was negligible. I don’t want to unduly place blame on them knowing how ignorant they really are. But ignorance, unfortunately, isn’t an excuse in this scenario. This is your opinion. I have found no specific teachings by their church that teach molestation is okay.If you are going to make statements like that you should back them up with references so that this forum does not get into trouble for slander.

Again, I think it’s incredibly important to note – no matter how we feel about the way in which the Duggars dealt with this issue – that Josh’s behavior is not simply about curiosity regarding female anatomy.How do you know? When Josh pulled the blanket off of his sister, he said that he inappropriately touched her. His sister said she didn’t notice that he had touched her. All 13-year-old boys are curious about female anatomy. But not all boys are as isolated from information as he was. His mother was his teacher. He was not allowed to watch t.v. He didn’t have free access to the internet. What he did was reprehensible, but there is only his word that he actually touched the girls inappropriately. It’s something else entirely to actually violate a sibling while she’s sleeping.
We will never know exactly what took place. Whatever it was it wasn’t healthy. I think the Duggars didn’t just stand by and do nothing. I think they attempted to do the right thing. Chances are that even if a report had been made at the appropriate time, nothing would have come of this, because the only witness to most of this was Josh himself.

I have mixed feelings about it being released for the simple reason that the Duggars should have better shielded themselves and essentially walked right into this (who keeps a letter detailing the whole thing in a book that he subsequently loans out to someone else?!). Yet for the sake of the girls especially, I wish the whole thing had never come to light.

I don’t agree with how they raise their children. I don’t agree with most of their religious beliefs. At the same time, none of this information would have been leaked had they not been Christian people.

 

[sojo]

None of this would be news, or an explosive leak, if they hadn’t covered it up for years. And quite frankly, they only finally went, a year later, to a trusted police friend who turned out to be a porn addict himself and is now in jail. And they claimed they had the son “counseled” but the mom’s own admission to the police is that was a lie. He never got counseling. He just went to work for a friend at hard labor. Totally mishandled by the Duggar parents, and I feel sorry for the girls (4 of the victims were his sisters).

Kendra - I’m so very sorry. You are right. I have some molestation in my background and it shapes you for life. We can overcome. We can forgive. But it never, ever, ever should have happened. Anyone who discards it as kids play is just ignorant.

 

[gracepoole]

Yes! He said he thought he was sending him to Christian Ministry treatment program, which I have explained that in Arkansas you can call yourself a Christian Counselor and practice without a mental health license. You just need a rink-ee -dink certificate awarded by taking some religious classes at a religious college.

Yes! And it still doesn’t sound like the man they actually sent Josh to even has this.

It says that it was run out of the Old Veteran’s Hospital building and a police department also was in that building. It would have been easy for the police to check to see if they were lying.

I didn’t deny that Jim Bob originally described a building – I simply noted that there was no subsequent reference to this building several years later when Michelle was asked about it. And I think it’s pretty clear that the first round with the police was pretty problematic. That Josh wasn’t handed over to the court system for clearly criminal behavior means the case was poorly handled.

This is your opinion. I have found no specific teachings by their church that teach molestation is okay.If you are going to make statements like that you should back them up with references so that this forum does not get into trouble for slander.

Whoa – go back and read what I wrote. I never said their church teaches that “molestation is okay.” I said they were given horrible advice by church leaders, all of whom apparently ignored all evidence about what actually happens with molesters in homes. I also noted in a previous post that the quiverfull movement (and Bill Gothard devotees, specifically) does not advocate removing a molester from a home and instead promotes the idea that female victims are responsible for being molested. Thanks, but there’s no slander or forum rules violation here.

As for Josh simply “exploring female anatomy,” you do realize that no matter how you want to spin this, he sexually violated his sisters, right? This isn’t a boy playing doctor with a girl. This isn’t “you show me yours and I’ll show you mine.” I’m getting the very distinct impression than some here have no background in this issue or its consequences or its pathology. Which is fine. But it would seem prudent then not to make claims about Josh as simply a teenager exploring his own sexuality.

I think the Duggars didn’t just stand by and do nothing. I think they attempted to do the right thing.

And as I’ve already said, I don’t disagree. However, because they are parents, they are legally and morally responsible to do what is genuinely in the best interest of their children. That they legitimately thought that some hard physical labor and prayer would be enough doesn’t make them any less responsible for the fact (FACT) that this approach to this sort of issue is ludicrous.

I don’t agree with how they raise their children. I don’t agree with most of their religious beliefs. At the same time, none of this information would have been leaked had they not been Christian people.

Really? You don’t think most Americans would be all too happy to tear into an atheist family in which this occurred? I’m a Christian – what’s my motive, then, for my response?

Finally, I have to beg you not to respond to my comments within the quote/using a different color. Quoting your comments then becomes a nightmare. Thanks!

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I’m really shocked by some of what I’ve read in this thread. Josh repeatedly victimized five young girls, four of whom were his sisters. For the record, nowhere does it say that the one who wasn’t a sister wasn’t a family member; she just didn’t live at the house. The fact that he’s a serial child molester and that neither he nor his victims have ever received treatment is a huge deal. If they lived near me, family services would be investigating the Duggars and there’s a very high probability they would lose custody at least temporarily of all the minor children.

I don’t believe that the people defending Josh by saying that he was 13-14 when this happened and there’s no evidence that he’s re-offended have any clue what they’re talking about. The earlier claim that child molesters have a low recidivism rate is irresponsible and false. When a juvenile offender molests a family member, is reported early and receives appropriate counseling soon after, the recidivism rate is low. The more they offend and the longer they go without treatment, the higher the rate goes. Which group does Josh fall into?

Perhaps the most ridiculous statements in here are the ones who state or imply that because he sought God’s forgiveness and vowed not to do it again, people should take him at his word. The level of ignorance in these comments is astounding, especially coming from Catholics who should be all too aware of the recent, long history of priests who molested kids, repented, vowed not to do it again, got shuffled to another parish and kept molesting without missing a beat. Did Josh just repent better than they did?

Does Josh deserve our sympathy and prayers? Absolutely. But his sisters deserve that and much more. They deserve to be protected. They need to feel safe. They need to be free from the repeated victimization of having to be around their abuser and not having a say in the matter. And they need some reassurance that the same abuse isn’t going to be spread to their nieces. There’s no indication that any of that has happened here.

 

[ringil]

I really think that some people are minimizing the severity of what Josh did, and essentially normalizing non-consensual sexual activity as something that is “normal” for adolescents, especially adolescent boys, to experiment with. Dismissing such acts, which can have lifelong devastating impact on the victims, as “mistakes”, same as many did regarding Steubenville, I think, lends support to the arguments some people make that we “live in a rape culture”.

As for the point some have made that whoever leaked this information was maliciously trying to hurt the Duggars or score political points about the FRC; I ask, SO? Does that mean the information isn’t true? Jose Canseco didn’t write a book about PEDs out of love for the game, he did so for the sake of more money and fame, and maybe gain revenge against those he thought had wronged him. Yet, most of his allegations have been shown to be true, or at least very likely to be true. Just because someone doesn’t have altruistic motives to reveal secrets, doesn’t mean they’re lying.

I also don’t get the impression most people posting about this here, are trying to score political points.

.

What we are seeing here is the knee jerk defense of an individual seen as some kind of champion for the Conservative American “family values” ilk.

If this exact incident were being reported as occurring in a media family not seen as a right wing voice- I suspect that we would be reading a very different thread here.

It’s really classic “dodge and weave” tactics, and entirely predictable.

 

[dixieagle]

I’m really shocked by some of what I’ve read in this thread. Josh repeatedly victimized five young girls, four of whom were his sisters. For the record, nowhere does it say that the one who wasn’t a sister wasn’t a family member; she just didn’t live at the house. The fact that he’s a serial child molester and that neither he nor his victims have ever received treatment is a huge deal. If they lived near me, family services would be investigating the Duggars and there’s a very high probability they would lose custody at least temporarily of all the minor children.

I don’t believe that the people defending Josh by saying that he was 13-14 when this happened and there’s no evidence that he’s re-offended have any clue what they’re talking about. The earlier claim that child molesters have a low recidivism rate is irresponsible and false. When a juvenile offender molests a family member, is reported early and receives appropriate counseling soon after, the recidivism rate is low. The more they offend and the longer they go without treatment, the higher the rate goes. Which group does Josh fall into?

Perhaps the most ridiculous statements in here are the ones who state or imply that because he sought God’s forgiveness and vowed not to do it again, people should take him at his word. The level of ignorance in these comments is astounding, especially coming from Catholics who should be all too aware of the recent, long history of priests who molested kids, repented, vowed not to do it again, got shuffled to another parish and kept molesting without missing a beat. Did Josh just repent better than they did?

Does Josh deserve our sympathy and prayers? Absolutely. But his sisters deserve that and much more. They deserve to be protected. They need to feel safe. They need to be free from the repeated victimization of having to be around their abuser and not having a say in the matter. And they need some reassurance that the same abuse isn’t going to be spread to their nieces. There’s no indication that any of that has happened here.

Amen, a thousand times.

 

[Dawnia]

It was the officer friend, Cpl Hutchens I think his name was, who Jim Bob consulted in 2002 about Josh. He was the one who gave the ‘stern talk’ to Josh. No police report was made and Josh was sent to the builder friend for 3 months after that. The police reports made in 2006 when Oprahs company alerted them, was not one that related to the ‘stern talk’ by Cpl Hutchens who is the one now incarcerated for child porn.

I’m curious why nothing was done by the police or CPS at the time of the police report?

 

[dixieagle]

I’m curious why nothing was done by the police or CPS at the time of the police report?

From what I have read, the police report wasn’t made until 2006 (the child-pornographer-state-trooper-friend didn’t report anything, though he was required to) and by then, the statute of limitations had expired. Whatever investigation took place couldn’t find any more recent molestation.

 

[LongingSoul]

I’m curious why nothing was done by the police or CPS at the time of the police report?

I would assume there was a pact to keep it ‘in house’. Otherwise Jim Bob would have gone to the local police station rather than seek out a ‘friend’ cop.

To be honest, I know why Jim Bob took that route. It’s your own child and you want to give them a chance based on your paternal love albeit limited knowledge of psychiatric predatory behaviour.

When people commit these types of crime and they aren’t brought to the court of justice… they can feel a bit more invincible. This is the time for justice. If he is scrutinised and found to be reformed and safe… excellent. If there are still areas of uncertainty, it is good that he can now face those and be accountable to the community and his family. That is the way of true justice.

 

[Dawnia]

From what I have read, the police report wasn’t made until 2006 (the child-pornographer-state-trooper-friend didn’t report anything, though he was required to) and by then, the statute of limitations had expired. Whatever investigation took place couldn’t find any more recent molestation.

I realize there may have limits on what the legal system can do, but CPS isn’t bound by those limits.

 

[punisherthunder]

He molested his own little sisters. That’s incest…

 

[Sy_Noe]

What we are seeing here is the knee jerk defense of an individual seen as some kind of champion for the Conservative American “family values” ilk.

If this exact incident were being reported as occurring in a media family not seen as a right wing voice- I suspect that we would be reading a very different thread here.

Ya got that right.