The Duggars

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Let me start off by saying that I really admire the way that the family raises their children. I think they do a fantastic job. My question was regarding their NFP. I was wondering what you all would have to say on the subject matter… No sure if you all watch the show. With her last pregnancy, she miscarried and with the one before that, the baby was premature and they had a lot of health problems with her early on. She was advised by doctors that it may not be a wise idea to have more due to her problems with having had so many children and the effects it had taken with her last 2 children. Under those circumstances, with health being at risk, is it okay to have a tubal ligation or use birth control due to possible life threatening circumstances? I’ve always been curious as to what others may think on the issue. Obviously, it’s between God and this couple, but I do know some people who’ve struggled with this same issue.
 
southerngirl89 said:
Let me start off by saying that I really admire the way that the family raises their children. I think they do a fantastic job. My question was regarding their NFP. I was wondering what you all would have to say on the subject matter… No sure if you all watch the show. With her last pregnancy, she miscarried and with the one before that, the baby was premature and they had a lot of health problems with her early on. She was advised by doctors that it may not be a wise idea to have more due to her problems with having had so many children and the effects it had taken with her last 2 children. Under those circumstances, with health being at risk, is it okay to have a tubal ligation or use birth control due to possible life threatening circumstances? I’ve always been curious as to what others may think on the issue. Obviously, it’s between God and this couple, but I do know some people who’ve struggled with this same issue.
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The Duggars do not use NFP. I have heard (and I’m sure someone else can look this up) that Michelle purposely quits breastfeeding when the latest baby is around 9-10 months so she can get pregnant again.
 
Yes, I forgot. They practice the quiverfull movement, I believe. My mistake.
 
I assumed NFP becuase I was not sure if they abstained for 9-10 months while the baby was being breastfed. I know they don’t believe in BC pills, not sure about condoms.
 
southerngirl89 said:
I assumed NFP becuase I was not sure if they abstained for 9-10 months while the baby was being breastfed. I know they don’t believe in BC pills, not sure about condoms.
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They don’t believe in any birth control.

I’m curious as to why you might have thought they abstained while breast feeding?
 
Nfp (natural family planning )is as effective as the pill. With nfp you only have to be on a schedule to prevent pregnancy. It is promoted by the church(at least it was when I got married ). So she could have followed the doctor’s advice that way.
 
southerngirl89 said:
I assumed NFP becuase I was not sure if they abstained for 9-10 months while the baby was being breastfed. I know they don’t believe in BC pills, not sure about condoms.
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I would be quite surprised if they abstained during that time. I would imagine they only abstain when Michelle’s OB/GYN (who is the cutest little Southern Belle) had advised it for the safety of a pregnancy.
 
southerngirl89 said:
Under those circumstances, with health being at risk, is it okay to have a tubal ligation or use birth control due to possible life threatening circumstances?
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No, contraception is a moral evil and is never morally permissible.

If the couple has a serious reason to avoid or space births, they may use periodic continence through natural family planning.

The Duggars choose not to use natural family planning.
 
having followed the duggars since 2003, i can tell you that they are part of the Quiverfull movement. and they DO abstain after their children are born…you can check their website and they talk about how they have used the example they found in the Old Testament about abstaining for x-days after a boy birth and y-days after a girl birth (don’t know the exact days). but they abstain for different amounts of time depending on which gender child they have. i’m pretty certain this is on the family website but i’m sure it’s also in their second book.

Michelle has openly said in both of her books and on their website, that 'believe me, you CAN get preganant during breastfeeding and I have several times"…i don’t believe that she quits nursing babies just to be able to ovulate again, because she was pregant with Josie when she was still nursing Jordyn and had said on the show how Jordyn was more fussy when nursing and she thought it was related to the hormone fluctuation of pregnancy.

our family loves the Duggars and we wish there were more positive families to watch on tv. we use their recipes (LOVE the homemade washing detergent), have studied the same Jim Sammons financial lessons they teach, and I re-read their books all the time. love their values, their peacefulness, and their drive to remain debt free!!
 
I don’t watch much TV, and have never watched an entire episode of the show, but everything I have heard about them is positive. One quality I always here everyone point out is how incredibly well behaved their children are. How the teenagers help out with the younger kids. You would think with all those kids, mom would be out of her mind stressed. But since everyone pitches in to help, mom is able to handle everything OK.

Just a couple days ago, I was reading an article about Mrs. Duggar and her desire to have more children. The comments that where left at the bottom were beyond atrocious. The profanities and foul language that was being directed her way. You would think she had committed some horrible crime by the names people were calling her! It was quite sad to see how far we have fallen as a society.

And yes, you can get pregnant while breastfeeding. After you deliver a child, the nurses and your doctor will recommend birth control and they will all tell you breastfeeding does not prevent ovulation.
 
the Duggars aren’t Catholic.

Catholics and Jews are the only religions that believe steriliation and artificial birth control are grave sins (for those of us who believe and following faithfully). the Duggars don’t think its a mortal sin they just choose to leave there family size up to God.

the quiverfull movment is NOT Catholic.
it shares some values with Catholicism like “leave it up to God” but the biggest difference is Catholics believe a couple can have serious reasons for avoiding pregancy using NFP. in other words quiverfull movment doesn’t accept nfp. neither say you must have as many children as possible (although some followers try to). also a Catholic can be quiverfull and still faithful Catholic I think. quiverfull is just a movment or group of couples leaving their family size up to God.

the Duggar’s still a great subject for Catholic answers because they share many of our values
 
Rita77 said:
the Duggars aren’t Catholic.

Catholics and Jews are the only religions that believe steriliation and artificial birth control are grave sins (for those of us who believe and following faithfully). the Duggars don’t think its a mortal sin they just choose to leave there family size up to God.

the quiverfull movment is NOT Catholic.
it shares some values with Catholicism like “leave it up to God” but the biggest difference is Catholics believe a couple can have serious reasons for avoiding pregancy using NFP. in other words quiverfull movment doesn’t accept nfp. neither say you must have as many children as possible (although some followers try to). also a Catholic can be quiverfull and still faithful Catholic I think. quiverfull is just a movment or group of couples leaving their family size up to God.

the Duggar’s still a great subject for Catholic answers because they share many of our values
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Thank You for pointing that out. I knew that they weren’t Catholic and that the quiverfull movement was not Catholic based as well. Michelle & Jim Bob do think birth control caused their first miscarriage years ago, so they choose not to use it. Not sure if they think it’s a sin,but they have definitely voiced a strong conviction against using it. I never actually believed they abstained for the months she breastfed. I was just wondering if they did, due to the fact that they leave thier number of children up to God and don’t practice birth control. I also know how possible it is to get pregnant during breast feeding. I’ve had some relatives get pregnant while breast feeding as well.
 
southerngirl89 said:
Thank You for pointing that out. I knew that they weren’t Catholic and that the quiverfull movement was not Catholic based as well. Michelle & Jim Bob do think birth control caused their first miscarriage years ago, so they choose not to use it. Not sure if they think it’s a sin,but they have definitely voiced a strong conviction against using it. I never actually believed they abstained for the months she breastfed. I was just wondering if they did, due to the fact that they leave thier number of children up to God and don’t practice birth control. I also know how possible it is to get pregnant during breast feeding. I’ve had some relatives get pregnant while breast feeding as well.
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They do believe that birth control is contrary to God’s plan for us, they don’t necessarily talk about it being sinful, not in those terms. But they, like us, know that birth control pills can cause an abortion. And, they decided to trust God to give them as many children as He wanted to.

I admire them - their kids are wonderful. I hate it that they have opened their home to TV cameras and in return they get excoriated by vicious critics of their family structure.

God bless them.
 
Is a vesectomy or tubal ligation permissable under any circumstances? So, from my understanding, a married couple is allowed to have sex for pleasure, as long as they are both free from BC of any kind and open to life, right?
 
southerngirl89 said:
Is a vesectomy or tubal ligation permissable under any circumstances? So, from my understanding, a married couple is allowed to have sex for pleasure, as long as they are both free from BC of any kind and open to life, right?
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I can’t speak for the quiverfull or protestant but

a Catholic should talk to their priest. I have talked to two. no its not ok for the purpose of causing infertility but if a Catholic needs a medical procedure done for medical reasons like a hysterectomy then it would be ok and with a hysterectomy sterilization would be a side effect of the procedure and not the reason for it.

the church knows nfp works. its not as easy as other forms of avoiding pregnancy. its not as easy compared to taking a pill each day but its not that hard eaither and can be figured out. its all natural. the way a womens body works is amazing we have fertilie time each month on average before ovulation and then our basal body temperature will rise proving if we have ovulated. leteal phase is the same length (within a day or maybe two) each month. so you can know period will come down to the day. now this would be normal average cycles for most women but there can be abnormalities but it still would help a women at least identify the abnormalities and do so way better than a pill.

also breastfeeding is God’s way of spacing babies if done with the right way (methods called LAM or ECO)it can cause natural amenorrhea on average 6 months but some women can have 2 years or more. the quiverful movment needs to be informed and taught these methods of breastfeeding (some may use it) its not easy it tends to be a attached parenting style of bf.
 
What are compatibilities and incompatibilities between Quiverfull movement and the teaching of catholic church on marriage?

This movement, that is coming from protestant lay persons - evangelical thoughts - ,seems to me to be quite far away from the true and real catholic mentality and because of several reasons:
  1. Responsible procreation is not the one of principles of marriage: how to define this responsability that is the consequence of marital act? The problem and the issue are about the degree of education (take care or educate); the question of the equality and the equity in dignity and in practice between boys and girls??? For girls, what about to study at college and may to get a job outside the house family?
  2. N.F.P. is not welcome: this philosophy is too much animal -sorry for the word - it looks like more reproduction than procreation; The quiver-full movement places a lot of emphasis on the absolute number of children born, almost as though it is a competition to see how the most prolific reproducers, they can be. The pheoretical providentialism in the protestant meaning is an other issue.
  3. Wife role is focusing “only” on motherhood and family life with a very strict meaning.
  4. In this movement, wife should serve her husband and the sexual needs of husband. The reciprocity and the mutuality do not seem to be in the message of this movement.
  5. The clanism is too much important: the superiority of group: the primauty of communauty and the activisism with pressure on the couple, on the family. The paternal control seems to be very strong even after the majority of children. Where is the liberty? How to choice her husband or his wife and where?
 
While I don’t agree with some of their beliefs, I do enjoy watching their show very much. My opinion about the amount of children? Well Michelle and Jim Bob seem to be able to provide for each and every one of them, so that’s cool. If she chooses to have another child, alrighty. Entirely up to her. If I was her though, I wouldn’t have anymore. She’s getting a bit old.
 
FYI, the Duggars are not, as many have reported, part of the Quiverfull movement. They are Baptist. I’m not sure why this rumor persists. :confused: I have some loose associations with them (I’m in Tennessee and also from the area their friends the Bates are in). 🙂

They are really wonderful folks. Just absolutely wonderful. Jim Bob and Michelle are youthful and full of energy. They are the most loving, patient, affectionate parents and spouses. You can’t watch/be around Michelle and not instantly be calmer and more joyful. ❤️ They are truly, truly a godly family. I’m so proud to have some ties with them and to live (relatively) close! 🙂
 
SurlyMermaid said:
FYI, the Duggars are not, as many have reported, part of the Quiverfull movement. They are Baptist. I’m not sure why this rumor persists. :confused: I have some loose associations with them (I’m in Tennessee and also from the area their friends the Bates are in). 🙂

They are really wonderful folks. Just absolutely wonderful. Jim Bob and Michelle are youthful and full of energy. They are the most loving, patient, affectionate parents and spouses. You can’t watch/be around Michelle and not instantly be calmer and more joyful. ❤️ They are truly, truly a godly family. I’m so proud to have some ties with them and to live (relatively) close! 🙂
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Thanks for this! I think it’s people who can’t understand their mentality about not limiting God’s blessings of children, and who are trying to imply or even state, that the Duggars are part of some cult that churns out children like products, and keeps their women subservient. It may just be sour grapes - when you watch that family, it’s hard not to want what they have - the peace that passes all understanding. They have an incredible INTEGRITY of their beliefs and their actions, which a lot of us struggle with. They genuinely LIVE their faith with joy. There is no subservience going on - the girls and young ladies are treated with the utmost respect and dignity. They are modest as individuals and as a family. Jim Bob loves his boys and adores his girls. Michelle is the MOST gentle mother short of Mary that I have ever seen. I remember well, during the taping of one of the early shows, in the small house they had, when one of the spitfire little boys was up to some naughtiness or other, and I thought to myself, “Just wallop his backside and get it over with!” 🙂

But Michelle took him aside, by himself, and started talking to him, and by and by, his little heart was pricked with sorrow, and he saw the error of his ways and fixed his attitude. 👍

May God continue to bless the Duggars! (Can’t help but wish they were Catholic, but then again, they’d be even more under attack if they were…)
 
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