The Duggars

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the problem isn’t the quiverful movement. religious freedom is good as long as no laws are broken. the problem is people like the OP (reread her original post if needed) seem to think they can put Michelle’s ovaries on trial and they seem to be the judge or jury and think the verdict should be to cut them off for her own health. not only should no one’s ovaries not be on trial but its none of anybodies business how many kids someone wants or has. yeah the duggars are on tv but it should be about their life (homeschooling, raising many kids etc.) why does society think its appropriate to discuss her uterus/ fertility. its not just Michaelle, most mothers of large families hear rude inappropriate advice or rude comments in public about their personal fertility.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Thanks for this! I think it’s people who can’t understand their mentality about not limiting God’s blessings of children, and who are trying to imply or even state, that the Duggars are part of some cult that churns out children like products, and keeps their women subservient. It may just be sour grapes - when you watch that family, it’s hard not to want what they have - the peace that passes all understanding. They have an incredible INTEGRITY of their beliefs and their actions, which a lot of us struggle with. They genuinely LIVE their faith with joy. There is no subservience going on - the girls and young ladies are treated with the utmost respect and dignity. They are modest as individuals and as a family. Jim Bob loves his boys and adores his girls. Michelle is the MOST gentle mother short of Mary that I have ever seen. I remember well, during the taping of one of the early shows, in the small house they had, when one of the spitfire little boys was up to some naughtiness or other, and I thought to myself, “Just wallop his backside and get it over with!” 🙂

But Michelle took him aside, by himself, and started talking to him, and by and by, his little heart was pricked with sorrow, and he saw the error of his ways and fixed his attitude. 👍

May God continue to bless the Duggars! (Can’t help but wish they were Catholic, but then again, they’d be even more under attack if they were…)
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The Duggars are apart of ATI and follow Bill Gothard which could be considered very similar to cult life in terms of how life in ATI world works. Gothard has been discussed previously on Catholic Answers. Having been slightly involved previously in ATI and having friend whose families were full on ATI (basic seminar, home school conferences, ALERT, Journey to the heart, etc) life in ATI world isn’t all sunshine and roses. I’m not saying the Duggars aren’t good people, but ATI and Gothard isn’t something that’s a walk in the park. The girls being subservient thing is true as a girl it is expected that your role is a keeper at home and wife in training and you are taught this at a very young age. Gothard offers few “career” choices that you can train for at one of his training centers (headquarters being in Oak Brook, IL) or attend college plus which is an online CLEP training system, but there isn’t really a push for higher education or careers outside the home.
 
I am pretty sure that Michelle Duggar has been hearing that she should stop having children, or that she’s going to ruin her body/health by having them, for many years from many people.

Most likely she is going to keep having babies until menopause.

I don’t think she would see a disabled/sick child as any less of a gift from God than a healthy one, and clearly she’d be ready to sacrifice her own health for her childs if need be.
 
Brightest_Star said:
I am pretty sure that Michelle Duggar has been hearing that she should stop having children, or that she’s going to ruin her body/health by having them, for many years from many people.

Most likely she is going to keep having babies until menopause.

I don’t think she would see a disabled/sick child as any less of a gift from God than a healthy one, and clearly she’d be ready to sacrifice her own health for her childs if need be.
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Yeah, both of them have said quite a few times that their families didn’t understand this and didn’t necessarily support them in it. They have probably caught a lot of heck since about their 6th or 7th, and that was a LOT of babies ago!
 
the biggest problems (as a faithful Catholic) in our country right now is abortion, same sex marriage, hhs mandate, religious freedom, just to name a few. the Duggars may not be Catholic but, they are on our side when it comes to these issues. thats more important then arguing weather or not their beliefs are cult like. if anything their cult would highly value family and life. their beliefs aren’t exactly the same as us, but on the issue that matter most, they are on our team. guess what so are the mormons and anyone who votes for life and religious freedom etc. I’m more worried about fighting Planned Parenthood then accusing a Christian family of being in a cult.
 
Rita77 said:
the biggest problems (as a faithful Catholic) in our country right now is abortion, same sex marriage, hhs mandate, religious freedom, just to name a few. the Duggars may not be Catholic but, they are on our side when it comes to these issues. thats more important then arguing weather or not their beliefs are cult like. if anything their cult would highly value family and life. their beliefs aren’t exactly the same as us, but on the issue that matter most, they are on our team. guess what so are the mormons and anyone who votes for life and religious freedom etc. I’m more worried about fighting Planned Parenthood then accusing a Christian family of being in a cult.
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Great post Rita! I wholeheartedly agree! 🙂
 
Rita77 said:
the biggest problems (as a faithful Catholic) in our country right now is abortion, same sex marriage, hhs mandate, religious freedom, just to name a few. the Duggars may not be Catholic but, they are on our side when it comes to these issues. thats more important then arguing weather or not their beliefs are cult like. if anything their cult would highly value family and life. their beliefs aren’t exactly the same as us, but on the issue that matter most, they are on our team. guess what so are the mormons and anyone who votes for life and religious freedom etc. I’m more worried about fighting Planned Parenthood then accusing a Christian family of being in a cult.
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I don’t think glamourdollxoxo was saying we all need to gang up on the Duggars and go to war against them or anything. She was merely pointing out what beliefs they follow. Better to be informed than to continue to believe that they are something they are not. I personally think while its great that they are so pro-life, I can not agree on their views on women and higher education and careers and why I don’t really watch their show anymore. At least as a tv viewer, I do want the background on the shows I choose to watch so I’m glad the information was provided so that others can be informed as well.
 
Not to “gang up” on the Duggars, either but we should treat them with the same EXTREMELY cautious respect we do the Amish. We must realize that while they are pro-life they also follow a belief system that can (and often does) turn cultish and dark…I’ve seen these fractured churches in action and while the duggars themselves are good they are an outlier and that 99% of todays people are not capable of handling 3-4 kids nevermind 19. They have a big countercultural family which comes with a price. They are blessed their kids are healthy and average. I know of a few families with 4+ and many are burdaned with special needs that make discipling the other children impossible at times…especally when the child in need is one of the older of the pack.

I think the automatic defence that those who dislike the duggars have sour grapes is untrue. I believe many people are genuinly concerned with the size of the family and how two people can provide for a mix of 19 young adults, children and babies.
 
Honestly, in my opinion, without the TV show, “I can’t keep my legs closed” and billy whoever would’ve been the king/queen of welfare
 
Fireflylight said:
Not to “gang up” on the Duggars, either but we should treat them with the same EXTREMELY cautious respect we do the Amish. We must realize that while they are pro-life they also follow a belief system that can (and often does) turn cultish and dark…I’ve seen these fractured churches in action and while the duggars themselves are good they are an outlier and that 99% of todays people are not capable of handling 3-4 kids nevermind 19. They have a big countercultural family which comes with a price. They are blessed their kids are healthy and average. I know of a few families with 4+ and many are burdaned with special needs that make discipling the other children impossible at times…especally when the child in need is one of the older of the pack.

I think the automatic defence that those who dislike the duggars have sour grapes is untrue. I believe many people are genuinly concerned with the size of the family and how two people can provide for a mix of 19 young adults, children and babies.
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🤷 My mother only had 6 kids, but she did in home daycare for many a years, and was almost always full. (had the maximum number of slots filled). That meant that she had 4 to 6 of her own kids elementary to college age at home, plus 12 children that were not her own, often from 6am to 7pm. (2 infants, 2-3 toddlers, 2-3 preschoolers, and several school aged children). Yes, she was getting paid to watch the children, but I don’t think anyone can question the Duggar’s financial ability to financially support the children, if we are then talking about physical and emotional care, I think people are mistaken to think that the Duggar’s are really outside of the norm of what parents can give their kids. 🤷 My own grandmother had 13 children in much harsher financial conditions than the Duggars. And I had a great aunt who had 17 (though apparently Grandma used to snipe about the lack of discipline in that house and my mom/aunts used to hide their toys when the cousins came to visit. :p).
 
jilly4ski said:
🤷 My mother only had 6 kids, but she did in home daycare for many a years, and was almost always full. (had the maximum number of slots filled). That meant that she had 4 to 6 of her own kids elementary to college age at home, plus 12 children that were not her own, often from 6am to 7pm. (2 infants, 2-3 toddlers, 2-3 preschoolers, and several school aged children). Yes, she was getting paid to watch the children, but I don’t think anyone can question the Duggar’s financial ability to financially support the children, if we are then talking about physical and emotional care, I think people are mistaken to think that the Duggar’s are really outside of the norm of what parents can give their kids. 🤷 My own grandmother had 13 children in much harsher financial conditions than the Duggars. And I had a great aunt who had 17 (though apparently Grandma used to snipe about the lack of discipline in that house and my mom/aunts used to hide their toys when the cousins came to visit. :p).
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It’s different when you can send them home, it’s also different becuase she wasn’t responsible for the mental, physical or spiritual devolopement for the children. They were there for care. I’m not saying your mother didn’t add to their education but she was not there to be their parent.

There is a difference between 6 and 12 and 18. That’s six more people each with their own needs added. It was also different “back then” becuase there were the extra familial support systems that don’t exist anymore.
 
Fireflylight said:
It’s different when you can send them home, it’s also different becuase she wasn’t responsible for the mental, physical or spiritual devolopement for the children. They were there for care. I’m not saying your mother didn’t add to their education but she was not there to be their parent.

There is a difference between 6 and 12 and 18. That’s six more people each with their own needs added. It was also different “back then” becuase there were the extra familial support systems that don’t exist anymore.
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Lol, “back then” when they lived on a farm separated large distances from everyone, and others were very busy and large families of their own. 😉

It is a little different when they are not your own, except it can be even more stressful, because you are responsible for these kids who are not your own. And she would have them sometimes 12+ hours a day, feed them breakfast, dress them, feed the supper, and the only thing she didn’t do was tuck them into bed at night. 🤷

And while there may indeed be a difference between 12 and 18, I don’t think it is as big as you say. As I really doubt that anyone with 18 children has all 18 home needing parenting at the same time.
 
One of the weird things about the Duggars’ use of birth control (yes, birth control - everyone uses it, it just might not be artificial) - is that they reportedly don’t believe that they have to abstain from sex at any given time. They believe the wife exists for sexual pleasure of the husband and she should never deny him (is that lust?). They believe that they can still have sex whenever they want and if God does not want them to get pregnant then He will personally see to it that the sperm does not meet the egg. I like the Duggars but to me that’s just irresponsible thinking, that they do not have to abstain because it’s God’s responsibility to keep the sperm and egg separated from each other in her body.

Gross.

And no, breastfeeding does not make you sterile for however many months/years until you stop. Women can still ovulate while breastfeeding, so it’s not a reliable form of birth control.
 
They believe the wife exists for sexual pleasure of the husband and she should never deny him (is that lust?

Pope John Paul II talks about this in the Theology of the Body. The husband MUST be concerned about the wife’s pleasure as well. Also, yes, it is a mortal sin to deny your spouse (either husband or wife) UNLESS there is good reason. For instance, the spouse is sick or exceptionally tired and they can agree on “later” or “tomorrow” or whatever is acceptable to them both. So whether it is lust or not depends upon whether one spouse is concerned only about him/her self. I do not know if these are the feelings of the Duggars themselves or not. I have heard Jim Bob say that if his wife wants to stop having children, he will respect her wishes.
 
I don’t mean to be rude, but I would not want to be one of the Duggar children. They seem like little clones or robots (except for the one girl–Jinger?). I really don’t see how each one of those kids could possibly get the parental attention that they need. It also makes me uneasy how the older kids become responsible for a younger one at a certain age. I think the siblings are expected to do too much for the little kids. It’s fine for an older sibling to be helpful, but they go overboard. The “J” names are also pretty weird; and a lot of those large meals seem rather unhealthy.

I grew up with a lot of parental attention, and it was really nice to feel like I always had someone to listen to me. How can these parents have time to really understand and listen to each one of their kids? I just don’t think that they reasonably can. Sure, they might provide for them materially–though their clothes seem oddly uniform-like and plain to me. But I think that kids need much more than large casseroles. It makes me sad to think that these kids are in such a bubble of their own family. It does seem kind of cultish to me. If I were a Duggar, I think it would feel like always being at summer camp or something, but not in a good way. Dinner would feel like going to a university’s dining hall.

There is a reason that most people don’t choose a life like this. I know that I never would. If they’re all truly happy, then more power to them, but if the children try to make it out in the real world, they’re probably going to encounter some difficulties that most children would not. I also get the feeling that the parents really want their kids to be a certain way and to have certain ideals. To an extent, I am sure that most parents are like this, whether they’re aware of it or not, but with the Duggars, it seems different. The kids seem brainwashed. I do think the one girl is going to rebel though, and if she’s unhappy with their lifestyle (which I can’t blame her for), then I hope she gets out of it without being seen as the black sheep.
 
Ok, so I just did a little reading about this family, and apparently they’re the types to teach that the world is only 6000 years old. I think that children are entitled to a quality education, and not indoctrination disguised as education. The more I learn about this family, the more it seems like a cult. They’re not Catholic–keep that in mind. I think Catholicism would have some real issues with how these kids are being raised, particularly the girls.

This link provides some alternate views on the Duggar lifestyle:
patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/02/carefully-scripted-lives-my-concerns-about-the-duggars.html

It’s not all rainbows and sunshine.
 
Veronica97 said:
  • Also, yes, it is a mortal sin to deny your spouse (either husband or wife) UNLESS there is good reason.*
So if I get married and my spouse just isn’t in the mood one night, or doesn’t wanna do it in a car, or just doesn’t feel like it, that’s a mortal sin? And then, what, I can beat her into it?

I believe a spouse has every moral and legal right in the world to say no to her partner’s advances, for any reason. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been told no lots of times before and it’s miserable, but at the same time I don’t want to feel like I’m raping my wife or putting pressure on her by telling her it’s a mortal sin to not pleasure me sexually. 🤷

It’s tempting to use that as a pickup line. 😉 But at the end of the day I think ANY reason is good reason to** not pressure someone **into doing something they don’t want to do. It’s not like, ‘oh you’re not in the mood, well that’s not a good enough reason for me woman, now take your pants off before your husband becomes angry.’ BS! (Or some other Catholic word that means that.)
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