The Elephant in our room

[Church_Militant]

To ask how people can receive communion and be in a state of mortal sin with zero guilt about the matter. How do people rationalize the act behind such a serious teaching, and why is no one bringing this up.

The only elephant in the room I see is your own biased assumption that this is relevant to faithful Catholics here on CAF

Could it be that this is only what you think? How can we be sure. Could it be that those members (however many) know they would be crucified if they admitted their birth control around these parts?

No more so than what you apparently think, since you allege something without evidence relevant to the members of CAF.

Have you actually surveyed all CAF members who profess to be faithful? No? Then your elephant is non existent…

Looks like it, doesn’t it. This from a guy who elsewhere here on CAF has admitted that he disagrees with church teaching on issues like this.

Wait–crucified by whom?

I thought you just said that everybody was using contraception?

Man…it is soooo difficult to crucify someone online. Cybernails just don’t have the desired effect, right?

Again, what is your intent?
To hold yourself up as some paragon of virtue from another “holier” forum?
You have been asked repeatedly in this and other threads that you have recently started to provide some hard data. Maybe you could walk right up to a REAL LIVE SINNER and ask them point blank. See how that goes. But coming on here and accusing all of us for not knowing how to be Catholic is not going to promote any fruitful dialog.
I guess I’ll not read any longer.

I’m unsure as to polluted’s intent as well, but it’s pretty clear that he is seeking to impugn and indict Catholic faith, which won’t stick due to his lack of evidence to support his allegation. It’s much the same as we sometimes see from anti-Catholics who join here under the STMP (Short term membership plan). If he is one of the ones who is involved in this kind of sin, then I suspect that what we see here is an attempt to rationalize it by using the supposed “everybody else is doing it” fallacy.

Ok OP, you brought the elephant, now clean up after it…would appear referenced proofs or a change in original wording would be in order.

Yeah…he’s gonna need some serious paper towels and Mr Clean or something…

Funny!

I thought so too.

On a final and more serious note, I think we can meditate upon the following words of Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ.

***Matthew 7:[13] "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. [14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

[21] "Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22] On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ [23] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ ***

 

[Polluted]

Let me explain something. One of the married couples at pre cana only had 2 kids of their own and an adopted daughter. I’m willing to wager cash they used artificial contraception. HOWEVER their first child flat out died, and the second child was born with mental retardation. The third adopted child turned into a gang member and brought frightening people to the house.

Would their use of contraception be a Mortal sin? Probably not. I’m pretty sure they were so psychologically injured over their attempts to have a child that would bring unspeakable joy…they were too afraid to try again.

Now take my sponsor into the Catholic Church. His attitude surrounding birth control was “How is a guy who doesn’t use his **** gonna tell me how to use mine”. His exact words to me.

Then there are the Catholics who use birth control because they think the teaching is unrealistic, it would be too hard, they don’t want another, they are not ready. Pretty much all the same reasons that motivate the bulk of abortions.

I want each of you to state honestly what category of the 3 you think the bulk of abc using Catholics fall under and if it’s a Mortal sin or not.

 

[Church_Militant]

Let me explain something. One of the married couples at pre cana only had 2 kids of their own and an adopted daughter. I’m willing to wager cash they used artificial contraception.

An assumption on your part…again without evidence. Did it occur to you that they may not be able to have more children?:ehh:

HOWEVER their first child flat out died, and the second child was born with mental retardation. The third adopted child turned into a gang member and brought frightening people to the house.

Which does not support your position at all. In fact…it’s irrelevant.

Would their use of contraception be a Mortal sin? Probably not.

Who are you to say? You have nothing to base your statements on other than your own bias.

I’m pretty sure they were so psychologically injured over their attempts to have a child that would bring unspeakable joy…they were too afraid to try again.

Again…no evidence. Did you bother to even attempt to discuss it with them? No?

Now take my sponsor into the Catholic Church. His attitude surrounding birth control was “How is a guy who doesn’t use his **** gonna tell me how to use mine”. His exact words to me

Crude…very crude. He messed you up and should never sponsor anyone ever again.

If he has issues with celibate clergy then maybe you and he could get together and study the issue starting with my blog article Priestly celibacy is unBiblical. NOT!

Then there are the Catholics who use birth control because they think the teaching is unrealistic, it would be too hard, they don’t want another, they are not ready. Pretty much all the same reasons that motivate the bulk of abortions.

So again…you appeal to the “everybody else is doing it” fallacy. Didn’t your momma ever answer that one when you were a kid? I know mine did, with “If everyone else jumps into a fire are you gonna do that too?”

I want each of you to state honestly what category of the 3 you think the bulk of abc using Catholics fall under and if it’s a Mortal sin or not.

Nope, it’s not a matter of what you, me, or all the rest of us think. Morals and truth are not relative, but objective, otherwise there are no morals or truth.

The Church has spoken the matter is settled. When God plainly tells mankind , ***"[28] And God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:28)

Genesis 9:[7] And you, be fruitful and multiply, bring forth abundantly on the earth and multiply in it." ***

 

[Kelfa28]

Maybe we can stop feeding the troll?

Personally I’m thinking this may be a certain poster who has an account under review and posted almost exclusively about contraception before.

 

[pensmama87]

I’ve a suspicion we’ve a troll on our hands.

(Had it for a while, but really, the last few posts on this and the NFP thread stretch a little too far past what I’d call “credible.”)

 

[Polluted]

Maybe I didn’t clarify…I’m FOR no birth control.

 

[Allegra]

Let me explain something. One of the married couples at pre cana only had 2 kids of their own and an adopted daughter. I’m willing to wager cash they used artificial contraception. HOWEVER their first child flat out died, and the second child was born with mental retardation. The third adopted child turned into a gang member and brought frightening people to the house.

Would their use of contraception be a Mortal sin? Probably not. I’m pretty sure they were so psychologically injured over their attempts to have a child that would bring unspeakable joy…they were too afraid to try again.

Now take my sponsor into the Catholic Church. His attitude surrounding birth control was “How is a guy who doesn’t use his **** gonna tell me how to use mine”. His exact words to me.

Then there are the Catholics who use birth control because they think the teaching is unrealistic, it would be too hard, they don’t want another, they are not ready. Pretty much all the same reasons that motivate the bulk of abortions.

I want each of you to state honestly what category of the 3 you think the bulk of abc using Catholics fall under and if it’s a Mortal sin or not.

Just to clarify, you demand that we place people we don’t know and who might not even exist, into three categories, the first being people you assume are using ABC but you don’t really know for sure, the second being someone with authority issues, and the third being everyone else who thinks they know better than the Church? What’s the point exactly? None of those categories is an exception to the rule. The forum is full of threads from people who have raised all of those issues, and any number of better-thought-out ones.

 

[pianistclare]

Well, I called out a troll yesterday, and got slammed by another CAF member, soooooo

 

[Polluted]

The fact that my account is under review because I’m amongst the few who is actually speaking for the chetechism and the Churches stance on birth control speaks louder then I ever could.

 

[Church_Militant]

Maybe I didn’t clarify…I’m FOR no birth control.

Okay then what’s the issue? That some people choose to follow a sinful path?

Get used to it and take up your cross daily and follow Him and by your life and words do what you can to draw others to Him.

The fact that my account is under review because I’m amongst the few who is actually speaking for the chetechism and the Churches stance on birth control speaks louder then I ever could.

Nope, If that was the case you wouldn’t be able to post. Nor should you violate Forum Rules by posting about any interactions with the mods. Look at that last section called Enforcement.

I haven’t seen anything in your posts so far that indicates a defense of the faith…just a bunch of unsubstantiated allegations.

 

[PolarGuy]

OP, your posts on this thread are disgraceful.

They seem to have no bona fide purpose other than to impugn other Catholics, while trying to make yourself look and feel morally superior (when in fact they are having the opposite result).

It is also evident that you have zero evidence for anything you pass off as fact.

I have repeatedly complained about the awful combinations of posters on this board as being harshly overjudgmental and/or overscrupulous, but your posts are lowering the bar to a new low. There’s a reason some people think of Catholics as sin-obsessed, “enter-into-everyone-else’s-bedroom” loons. Sometimes the stereotype fits.

 

[Allegra]

The fact that my account is under review because I’m amongst the few who is actually speaking for the chetechism and the Churches stance on birth control speaks louder then I ever could.

So does the fact that you still haven’t figured out that you’re trying to argue with people who agree with the Church’s stance on birth control in the first place!

 

[EasterJoy]

Let me explain something. One of the married couples at pre cana only had 2 kids of their own and an adopted daughter. I’m willing to wager cash they used artificial contraception. HOWEVER their first child flat out died, and the second child was born with mental retardation. The third adopted child turned into a gang member and brought frightening people to the house.

Would their use of contraception be a Mortal sin? Probably not. I’m pretty sure they were so psychologically injured over their attempts to have a child that would bring unspeakable joy…they were too afraid to try again.

Now take my sponsor into the Catholic Church. His attitude surrounding birth control was “How is a guy who doesn’t use his **** gonna tell me how to use mine”. His exact words to me.

Then there are the Catholics who use birth control because they think the teaching is unrealistic, it would be too hard, they don’t want another, they are not ready. Pretty much all the same reasons that motivate the bulk of abortions.

I want each of you to state honestly what category of the 3 you think the bulk of abc using Catholics fall under and if it’s a Mortal sin or not.

You are apparently too young to remember the days when people had no contraception and some of them still only had two children.

It is no business of yours to wager on a rash judgment. You don’t know, you should admit you don’t know. Do as the Catechism advises, and make the most charitable presumptions about others that you can when you don’t know.

*CCC 2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved * (280: St. Ignatius of Loyola, Spiritual Exercises, 22.)

 

[Beryllos]

… coming on here and accusing all of us for not knowing how to be Catholic is not going to promote any fruitful dialog.
I guess I’ll not read any longer.

Hold the door! I’m right behind you!

 

[Beryllos]

CCC 2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved (280: St. Ignatius of Loyola, Spiritual Exercises, 22.)

I love that passage in the Catechism and think of it often.

 

[Polluted]

OP, your posts on this thread are disgraceful.

They seem to have no bona fide purpose other than to impugn other Catholics, while trying to make yourself look and feel morally superior (when in fact they are having the opposite result).

It is also evident that you have zero evidence for anything you pass off as fact.

I have repeatedly complained about the awful combinations of posters on this board as being harshly overjudgmental and/or overscrupulous, but your posts are lowering the bar to a new low. There’s a reason some people think of Catholics as sin-obsessed, “enter-into-everyone-else’s-bedroom” loons. Sometimes the stereotype fits.

This is exactly what I’m talking about. This issue is a practicing Catholics “gay marriage”. People rationalizing sinful behavior, demanding acceptance for said behavior, and criticizing those who are not “accepting” of said behavior.

So I’m over scrupulous if I actually agree with Church teaching and calling it like it is? Sorry not buying it any more than the guy who calls me a bigot for my stance on homosexuality

 

[jlc2k2]

This is exactly what I’m talking about. This issue is a practicing Catholics “gay marriage”. People rationalizing sinful behavior, demanding acceptance for said behavior, and criticizing those who are not “accepting” of said behavior.

So I’m over scrupulous if I actually agree with Church teaching and calling it like it is? Sorry not buying it any more than the guy who calls me a bigot for my stance on homosexuality

It’s not your stance on birth control that we have an issue with. It’s your assumption that the majority of us posting here on CAF use contracepting and are sinning.

 

[Church_Militant]

This is exactly what I’m talking about. This issue is a practicing Catholics “gay marriage”. People rationalizing sinful behavior, demanding acceptance for said behavior, and criticizing those who are not “accepting” of said behavior.

So I’m over scrupulous if I actually agree with Church teaching and calling it like it is? Sorry not buying it any more than the guy who calls me a bigot for my stance on homosexuality

This thread is not about SSM and that’s not what you opened the thread with. If you want to discuss SSM/SSA then you need to make another thread in Moral Theology or Apologetics where the topic belongs because even this thread is not really where it belongs.

maybe you need to check out the various forums stickies, like Choosing Your Forum Wisely

It’s not your stance on birth control that we have an issue with. It’s your assumption that the majority of us posting here on CAF use contracepting and are sinning.

 

[jlc2k2]

It’s not your stance on birth control that we have an issue with. It’s your assumption that the majority of us posting here on CAF use contracepting and are sinning.

And to be clear, I have many many sins that I’m working on. Contraception just isn’t one of them.

I realized the first part might come off a little holier-than-thou and that’s not my intention.

 

[Polluted]

Sorry but the idea behind CAF members contracepting was simply a way to mirror the statistics we are all aware of. Don’t act like that’s your only problem with what I have posted because it’s not. If I was talking about homosexuality and their duty to follow the Churches sex laws I would be a hero and this would be a 5 page thread of everyone patting each other’s back.

But instead I have been “attacked” more or less and criticized for not being tolerant enough. We owe it to ourselves to ask why and sadly all it does is validate what I’m saying here.

Many many Catholics use abc, and still go up to partake in the body of Christ and his precious blood