The End of Christian America - Newsweek's cover story

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About the same time this article came out, I heard Fox news report that there has been a literal world-wide explosion of conversion to tradition religions.
A literal worldwide explosion of conversion? That would truly surprise me. Or perhaps Fox is just defining their terms differently from how I would. In either case, I would be grateful if you could cite a link to this report.
 
Did you read the article? The issue is not about driving God out of government (which I agree some have tried to do and it has been a bad thing.

But that does not change the on-the-ground reality that the “christianization” efforts of the last two decades have coincided with the decrease in church attendance across all denominations and the increase in the number of those who claim to be aetheistic or agnostic.

Historically and globally, the combination of Church and State has been bad for both.

A related article, for those seriously interested in the subject:

Creating A Political Firestorm That Is Still Burning

This is the transcript of a John Whitehead interview of Frank Shaeffer. Not for the faint-of-heart, with plenty of blame to go around, but very thought-provoking.

… tough stuff
Yes, I read the article, and I read the second you posted. It is not tough stuff, it is cowardly. Mr. Shaeffer has basically been ‘converted’ by the multiculturalistic left. He bites the hand that feeds him.

Once again I will quote John Adams, “**It is the duty of all men in society, **publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe.”

If we want to keep our Constitutional functional, we must remain a majority Christian nation, with publically demonstrable display of Judeo-Christian values by our public institutions and the public at large. As I said in a recent post to this thread, “Representative democracy cannot survive without Godly living. Without God, humans cannot make it function, just as the Jews could not live under the Judges and God’s law, demanding instead to be ruled by a King (a man). The movement over the past half century of “freedon from religion” will destroy our nation, not necessarily violently, and not necessarily by name. The name United States of America may live on for another millenium. But the Constitution cannot, it has too many rules that were laid down in principle by the God of the Universe. Ungodly people want freedom from God, even many who claim to be Catholic, or Protestant, or non-denom. And the only way to get that freedom is to rid ourselves of the rules in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, public worship of God, and a public commitment to God’s law.”

Please read Father Morris’ essay on the same subject: foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/20…eek_christian/
 
The Founding Fathers never endorsed an official state religion, partly because of experience with the Church of England–If I remember correctly, the Puritans came to the New World in order to escape state sanctioned religion, which did not tolerate their beliefs. Not only that, but the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights clearly states that there is to be a freedom of religion not instituted by the government. Moreover, I wish not to live in a theocracy no matter how just it might be.
Many of the founding fathers were Masons. Catholicism as a state religion is better than Protestantism as a state religion because Catholicism works well in cohesion with social order and strong leadership.

I would much rather be ‘repressed’ in a theocracy such as the Holy Roman Empire or Franco’s Spain than ‘free’ in a democracy such as the USA. People may have less rights and may be a little poorer, but at least they have more faith and behave better.

The only chance for the West to save itself spiritually, morally, socially and physically is to embrace Catholicism wholeheartedly.
 
Many of the founding fathers were Masons. Catholicism as a state religion is better than Protestantism as a state religion because Catholicism works well in cohesion with social order and strong leadership.

I would much rather be ‘repressed’ in a theocracy such as the Holy Roman Empire or Franco’s Spain than ‘free’ in a democracy such as the USA. People may have less rights and may be a little poorer, but at least they have more faith and behave better.

The only chance for the West to save itself spiritually, morally, socially and physically is to embrace Catholicism wholeheartedly.
Yes, that is true to a certain extent. In addition, there were a few prominent deists involved in the founding of this country. Also, in many ways, Catholicism is a foreign concept in the United States, in my opinion. For example, my family ancestry, which have been in this country for either over a hundred years and even more–a few all the way as far back as following the Revolution, consisted of Scot-Irish Presbyterianism and German Lutheranism.

I certainly agree with you on a lack of Christian morality found today, and sadly there is not much to do to rectify it at this moment. An official state religion would not improve the situation either partly because an instituted religion still does not change the free will of an individual to partake in it or not. Not only that, but do I truly want our government involving itself more into our affairs? I have always subscribed to the idea of government as a necessary evil rather than the solutions to every problem in society. The lack of morality today should rest on the individual and not on the constant dictates of the government. Lastly, freedom and liberty are precious concepts that can be lost or diminished quite easily. And thanks for the agreement, RWMorris; I noticed you quoted John Adams who I thought was portrayed very well in the HBO series, John Adams. If you’re interested in American history, I certainly recommend it.

Happy Easter everyone.
 
Official state religion won’t change anything? Well, when Catholicism was made the official state religion in Franco’s Spain, attendance rates at mass shot up as anyone who wanted to get a job had to have a recommendation from a Priest, and even if thus people attend mass unwillingly, they still do, and many rediscovered God as a result. So we could use this job recommendation tactic.
 
I would much rather be ‘repressed’ in a theocracy such as the Holy Roman Empire or Franco’s Spain than ‘free’ in a democracy such as the USA. People may have less rights and may be a little poorer, but at least they have more faith and behave better.

The only chance for the West to save itself spiritually, morally, socially and physically is to embrace Catholicism wholeheartedly.
But if we establish a principal of “theocracy” in our democracy we have no assurance that the “theocratic principals” will be OURS. We could very well find ourselves living in a society in which public schools are required to teach an evangelical, anti-catholic version of Christianity (as was true for many years in the US). Is that really preferable? This is entirely beside the point that in general the government-coerced practiced of religion actually weakens the faith, to wit:
Official state religion won’t change anything? Well, when Catholicism was made the official state religion in Franco’s Spain, attendance rates at mass shot up as anyone who wanted to get a job had to have a recommendation from a Priest, and even if thus people attend mass unwillingly, they still do, and many rediscovered God as a result. So we could use this job recommendation tactic.
And is it a sign of a healthy faith that people are attending Mass unwillingly? Or is that government-coerced hypocricy?

I don’t remember who posted the reference to Ferdinand and Isabella and Charlemange, butI would submit that the kinds of government-coerced religious compliance that those monarchies induced, along with the concurrent clerical corruption, is NOT a formula we would want to cite or replicate.

The Holy See has only just apologized for the abuses those government liasons enabled. Let’s not go back and do it again.
 
The theocracy which I want to see established is not Evangelical, but Catholic. But of course, I would prefer a secular state to an Evangelical State.

It was I who posted the reference to Charlemagne and Isabella. Well to some it may not be a sign of healthy faith, but it was still effective as the number of practicing Catholics increased. Which apologies are you referring to?
 
I don’t think it’s so much a reality, as it is that news papers and magazines are getting more and more comfortable making bold declerations like that.
exactly. and why touch on this subject during Holy Week? to mock people who practice christianity it seems.

i don’t subscribe to these type of magazines, but they have so much influence on what people perceive when they look at the picture on the cover and the title, whether it is religion or politics. just because time or newsweek says it, doesn’t make it so.

unfortunately, someone might be in the grocery store or the bookstore and see the cover and believe it. and not question the authenticity as to how the writer came up with the conclusion or the authenticity of the poll conducted.

that is my opinion anyway.
 
I can’t cite a link or a source to Fox’s claim of worldwide conversions. It was just a headline mentioned in passing that I happened to see. I wondered if anyone else had heard something further. I doubt they meant Christianity.
 
exactly. and why touch on this subject during Holy Week? to mock people who practice christianity it seems.

i don’t subscribe to these type of magazines, but they have so much influence on what people perceive when they look at the picture on the cover and the title, whether it is religion or politics. just because time or newsweek says it, doesn’t make it so.

unfortunately, someone might be in the grocery store or the bookstore and see the cover and believe it. and not question the authenticity as to how the writer came up with the conclusion or the authenticity of the poll conducted.

that is my opinion anyway.
To be blunt, this is a declaration by Satan.

Furthermore, it’s more of the godless trying to feel emboldened, and thumb their noses in torrential times…striking in the moment of crisis, when people are all of a sudden turning to God, in the time of recession…
It’s taunting Christians during Holy Week, and it is meant to discourage and trouble the hearts of those who are currently weak in faith.
Some will be duped, but they probably weren’t strongly with God anyway.
Others shrewd enough will be able to see through the B.S.

People who have faith pay no attention to nonsense reports like this, but it is effective on younger people who challenge other younger people’s faith and use this as justification to say “see, Christianity is no longer relevant…”
America has enough faithful to pray for its country. I can see it because this Easter was very strong in Church attendance, the Holy Spirit stays with us…

To add to perspective, wasn’t it a half century ago Time Magazine had that “God is Dead” cover?
 
To be blunt, this is a declaration by Satan.

Furthermore, it’s more of the godless trying to feel emboldened, and thumb their noses in torrential times…striking in the moment of crisis, when people are all of a sudden turning to God, in the time of recession…
It’s taunting Christians during Holy Week, and it is meant to discourage and trouble the hearts of those who are currently weak in faith.
Some will be duped, but they probably weren’t strongly with God anyway.
Others shrewd enough will be able to see through the B.S.

People who have faith pay no attention to nonsense reports like this, but it is effective on younger people who challenge other younger people’s faith and use this as justification to say “see, Christianity is no longer relevant…”
America has enough faithful to pray for its country. I can see it because this Easter was very strong in Church attendance, the Holy Spirit stays with us…

To add to perspective, wasn’t it a half century ago Time Magazine had that “God is Dead” cover?
👍👍👍👍
 
The theocracy which I want to see established is not Evangelical, but Catholic. But of course, I would prefer a secular state to an Evangelical State.

It was I who posted the reference to Charlemagne and Isabella. Well to some it may not be a sign of healthy faith, but it was still effective as the number of practicing Catholics increased. Which apologies are you referring to?
You must have no sense of history to honestly suggest that a theocracy, Catholic or not is a good idea. The phrase, “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” was a reference to one of the Borgia Popes. Unfortunately Christs church is still full of people, who are sinners. Let’s let the church take of spiritual things and influence government as best they can. The temptation for evil when one holds both reins of power has been proven over and over again to be a corrupting one.
 
No sense of history? But the medieval Catholic system worked well, did it not? All right, some heretics were burned at the stake but many were guilty anyway and it’s a small price to play for social stability and good leadership.
 
I read the article that Newsweek published. Does anyone really take this stuff seriously? Here it is, Easter Sunday, and I guess they have to publish something that makes it look like Christianity is going away.

By the looks of our church Easter Sunday morning, you would wonder where they got this idea. The pews on the sides of the church were overflowing, the old choir loft in the back was packed full like sardines, and there were people standing in the aisle. It’s a good thing the Fire Department didn’t show up!

If you read these articles carefully, you will find that they make the statistics mean whatever they want them to mean. So they found more people who called themselves atheists than they found a few years ago? It almost makes me yawn.

What about all of the mega churches that are sprouting up all over the country? Looks like an increase of Christianity to me.
 
I read the article that Newsweek published. Does anyone really take this stuff seriously? Here it is, Easter Sunday, and I guess they have to publish something that makes it look like Christianity is going away.

By the looks of our church Easter Sunday morning, you would wonder where they got this idea. The pews on the sides of the church were overflowing, the old choir loft in the back was packed full like sardines, and there were people standing in the aisle. It’s a good thing the Fire Department didn’t show up!

If you read these articles carefully, you will find that they make the statistics mean whatever they want them to mean. So they found more people who called themselves atheists than they found a few years ago? It almost makes me yawn.

What about all of the mega churches that are sprouting up all over the country? Looks like an increase of Christianity to me.
i live in a town and our parish consists of 3 churches and each church had 2 morning services and all 6 services were overflowing, so i know what you mean that the article doesn’t seem to match with what is actually happening in our cities and towns. more of what this author would like to see happen. very biased and unprofessional for such a big magazine like Newsweek, but it does not surprise me. hopefully, most of the Christian faithful were too busy worshipping during Holy Week to pay any attention to the magazine cover.
 
I read the article that Newsweek published. Does anyone really take this stuff seriously? Here it is, Easter Sunday, and I guess they have to publish something that makes it look like Christianity is going away.

By the looks of our church Easter Sunday morning, you would wonder where they got this idea. The pews on the sides of the church were overflowing, the old choir loft in the back was packed full like sardines, and there were people standing in the aisle. It’s a good thing the Fire Department didn’t show up!

If you read these articles carefully, you will find that they make the statistics mean whatever they want them to mean. So they found more people who called themselves atheists than they found a few years ago? It almost makes me yawn.

What about all of the mega churches that are sprouting up all over the country? Looks like an increase of Christianity to me.
But the article specifically said that Christianity is not going away in America. The article stated “Let’s be clear: while the percentage of Christians may be shrinking, rumors of the death of Christianity are greatly exaggerated. Being less Christian does not necessarily mean that America is post - Christian.” The article goes on to say “There is no doubt that the nation remains vibrantly religious.” The article is not really talking about the decline of Christianity in America, but rather the decline of an American conservative view of what it means to be moral and Christian, a view that many Christians disagree with. The article maintains that the conservative evangelical impulse to identify the American Government and its policies with its own religious viewpoint has failed, and this, for those who support this viewpoint, represents a decline of Christianity in the nation and a growing immorality among the public. Personally, I found the article interesting and worth reading. I may not agree with the whole of its analysis, but it makes several interesting observations that devout Christians could use as a springboard for further study.
 
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