The End of False Religion is Near!

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Hey there, Damascus !!
I just wanted to say that that LINK at the bottom of your posts is, well, superb. I wish more visitors would click on it !!!
God bless,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
 
Your Eph. citiation is re:Baptism again

Your Matt- gate is narrow passage—

Okay. I am hoping you can now clarify and tell us more.

I am still looking for the word organization, so that one might take some time…

I hope you will find it first! 👍
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
Hey there, Damascus !!
I just wanted to say that that LINK at the bottom of your posts is, well, superb. I wish more visitors would click on it !!!
God bless,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
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There is a poster here who is Catholic who has tried to have it removed…😦

But, I am glad its there too!!!😃

So far, you are the only one who has commented about it to me directly and positively!🙂

Wonder why???😉
 
Jone,
Wow! You clearly have fire and passion! That clearing can be seen from your postings! It’s good to have fire and passion, especially if that fire and passion is for God. However, sometimes that passion can be a little to hot for those around you. It can be overwhelming and therefore it can turn people off vs. turning them on to God.
Jone said:
That’s NOT what it’s about. It’s about what the Bible SAYS. Not you, me or anyone else for that matter.
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How is the Bible written? Is everything in the Bible literal? Or are some things written in Symbolic language or allegorical language? How do you know if a passage is literal? Or Symbolic? Or Allegorical? What does the Bible say is the pillar and foundation of truth?
Jone said:
Also, do you people even read the Bible.
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Yes, there is even a thread on the topic, you can review it if you like: Catholics: When did you last read the Bible? I’m sure that by reviewing the thread your question do you people even read the Bible, will be answered.
Jone said:
God does say that not all who call on him would be answered and that faith without works is dead.
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James 2:26 states faith with out works is dead, and Mathew 7:21-23 said that not everyone calls Jesus Lord will enter Heaven.

Now Mathew 7:8 says For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks finds; and to the one that knocks, the door will be opened. Mark 20:24 Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.

Now those 2 verses clearly say that, “all of my prayers will be answered by God.” However, are they going to be the answers that I want? Well sometimes yes, and some times No. This is because my will does not always fit in with what God wants. However, I can be assured that I will always get an answer to my prayers. Those answers are always going to be what God wants for me and I just hope that my will at that moment fits in with what God wants: that way I’m not disappointed about the answer.
Jone said:
Do you go and preach the way Jesus did. Do you follow his example and dedicate all your time into reaching people to reason with them?
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Jesus did much more then preaching. Jesus did not spend all of this time preaching. Jesus spent his time praying. Jesus spent his time eating with people. Jesus spent his time enjoying parties (Especially a wedding party). Jesus spent his time healing the sick, visiting the ill, and raising people from the dead. Jesus spent his time teaching large crowds, but he also spent his time just with the apostles giving them private teachings. Many, many of the things that Jesus did was recorded in the Bible, however there are many more things that are not. We know this because the gospel of John ends with this statement: “There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these things were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written”.

In other words Jesus did some much that it’s impossible to name or write about it all. Is it impossible to name and write about all the things that you have done for God?

I’ll be honest and say that it is NOT impossible to name all the things I have done for God. However, that doesn’t mean I don’t stop trying. Everyday is a new day, and new hope for me to conform my will to the Will of God.
 
As a perhaps interesting side-note,
Jehovah’s Witnesses loathe the Cross, and believe that God hates the Cross too because it allegedly is a purely “pagan” thing. But did you know that God commanded the use of a cross in the Old Testament? Yes, He did.

In Ezekiel 9: verses 3 and 4, a holy man with an inkhorn is told to go throughout the city and mark the righteous in their foreheads with a mark. The NAB calls this mark an X, but this is incorrect, for the Hebrew word for that mark is a TAU. The man with the inkhorn was told to go through the city and mark the foreheads of the righteous with a TAU. A TAU is a Cross.
The NAB, which uses the letter X instead, nonethess in it’s footnote to Ezekiel 9:4, admits that the Tau or Taw is the form
of a Cross.

Isn’t that odd that God would command the use of something he abhors, a cross, to mark the foreheads of the righteous??

By the way, I don’t think that that use of the Tau in Ezekiel 9:3,4
is accidental either. As Tertullian said around 200 A.D., the early Christians had the longstanding habit of marking their foreheads with the Sign of the Cross.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
 
Jone said:
So minky murph. Do you go and preach the way Jesus did. Do you follow his example and dedicate all your time into reaching people to **reason **with them? Besides the computer. Because the computer is not teaching it is talking and debating.
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Dear Jone,

I know this question was for MM, but here is my 2 cents on this type of question. firstly, I never challenge another Christian about their methods of “preaching” to others. I am in no place to do this, lest I become arrogant and boastful of myself and inadvertantly belittle someone else I do not even know or could ever know them that welll to do in good consience. I am sure your comment was well meaning, but just reading it made me hurt for MM.
In regard to dedicating all ones time to “preaching” I say, not so. One must dedicate themselves to knowing their faith as well or they may be doing more harm than good “preaching” misconceptions possibly and of course inadvertantly. I think talking and debating is using reason with someone- If one is using facts and not mere emotional responses to do so. (or at least a healthy balance of the 2;) I know that some homebound persons (in the JW religion) are allowed to use the Phone to contact others as they are unable to physically go out door to door. I am not sure if phone contact is on any higher or lower level than the internet?? Not that I am condoning internet or phone “preaching” above other methods. I am just saying there are many methods and many people (such as myself) came to know the Bible and Christianity without the methods you have really not specifyed yet alluded to, and I dare say the methods employed by Jesus would firstly be impossible for us to follow as we can not raise the dead or preform miracles or the like.
Absolutely we must do our best to follow Jesus and all his teachings - spreading the gospel and all the other things he taught us to do obediently and with joy in our hearts. I know many people that lead others to Jesus everyday in their average life doing average things (being a Christian and acting like one) and showing others his face through their love compassion mercy and gratitude and on and on and on. While I agree with you that it is paramount we be filled with fire and passion for him, we must be sure we are really correct on his teachings first, and really following them, lest we lead astray many many others into blindness and confusion.🙂

I am sure you agree?🙂
 
Dear Brother Jaypeeto4,

I am so glad you brought this up. Mark Thau. Thau or Tau, is the last letter in the Hebrew alphabet and signifyes a sign or a mark. Some translators render this place Set a mark or Mark a mark, without specifying what this mark was. But, St. Jerome, and others conclude it was the form of the letter Thau, which in the ancient Hewbrew character was a cross. (the 22 letter of the Hewbrew alphabet).

Of course this is out of an old Bible of mine that is handy right now. Of course if the JW’s want to insist Jehovah hated the Cross, I would like to see it in the Bible specifically before I consider the statement.
🙂
Jaypeeto4 said:
As a perhaps interesting side-note,
Jehovah’s Witnesses loathe the Cross, and believe that God hates the Cross too because it allegedly is a purely “pagan” thing. But did you know that God commanded the use of a cross in the Old Testament? Yes, He did.

In Ezekiel 9: verses 3 and 4, a holy man with an inkhorn is told to go throughout the city and mark the righteous in their foreheads with a mark. The NAB calls this mark an X, but this is incorrect, for the Hebrew word for that mark is a TAU. The man with the inkhorn was told to go through the city and mark the foreheads of the righteous with a TAU. A TAU is a Cross.
The NAB, which uses the letter X instead, nonethess in it’s footnote to Ezekiel 9:4, admits that the Tau or Taw is the form
of a Cross.

Isn’t that odd that God would command the use of something he abhors, a cross, to mark the foreheads of the righteous??

By the way, I don’t think that that use of the Tau in Ezekiel 9:3,4
is accidental either. As Tertullian said around 200 A.D., the early Christians had the longstanding habit of marking their foreheads with the Sign of the Cross.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
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Jone said:
So minky murph. Do you go and preach the way Jesus did. Do you follow his example and dedicate all your time into reaching people to reason with them? Besides the computer. Because the computer is not teaching it is talking and debating.
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Oh Jone…Calling Jone…

Were you just engaging in a hit and run or do you plan to return?
 
tequilamac said:
Oh Jone…Calling Jone…

Were you just engaging in a hit and run or do you plan to return?
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She may return. I think first she has to get someone else in her organization to review what has been posted here first. We have given her much to think about or “chew on” and she may not be allowed to have independent thought
on the above, I dont know, since I dont know her religion. But i have never heard the word organization used by any other faith than the JW’s. There may be more but I am unaware of any.
 
Damascus said:
She may return. I think first she has to get someone else in her organization to review what has been posted here first. We have given her much to think about or “chew on” and she may not be allowed to have independent thought
on the above, I dont know, since I dont know her religion. But i have never heard the word organization used by any other faith than the JW’s. There may be more but I am unaware of any.
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Since her biggest complaint was the use of God’s name, it is a good bet that yes, Jone is a Jehovah Witness.
From their website:
"
Further Efforts to Hide the Name
Judaism is by no means the only religion that avoids using the name of God. Consider the case of Jerome, a Catholic priest and secretary to Pope Damasus I. In the year 405 C.E., Jerome completed his work on a translation of the entire Bible into Latin, which became known as the Latin Vulgate. Jerome did not include God’s name in his translation. Rather, following a practice of his time, he substituted the words “Lord” and “God” for the divine name. The Latin Vulgate became the first authorized Catholic Bible translation and the basis for many other translations in several languages.

For instance, the Douay Version, a 1610 Catholic translation, was basically a Latin Vulgate translated into English. It is no surprise, then, that this Bible did not include God’s personal name at all. However, the Douay Version was not just another Bible translation. It became the only authorized Bible for English-speaking Catholics until the 1940’s. Yes, for hundreds of years, the name of God was hidden from millions of devoted Catholics."

It would seem that all of Jones arguments came directly off the watchtower website as they are listed right there along with her answers. So is Jone a JW? Absolutely. Will she back? On her regular rounds I would think.
 
Another clue that Jone is a JW or at least is heavily influenced by their literature, is that Jone refers to people as "ones."
Most people do not refer to people as “ones” but as “people.”
I’ve noticed that JW literature has a penchant for using the word
"ones" instead of “persons” or “people” very frequently.
Plus, as you noted, Jone was using **Witness-Speak **when claiming that the bible “teaches” that God would use one Organization and claimed that the Catholic Church removed God’s name from the Bible.

Jone also accused me of being nasty because I said that he (or she) made assertions with no references to back it up. I.e., Jone claimed that the Catholic Encyclopedia said that Catholic teachings are “made up.” I’m still waiting for the volume, page number, and paragraph number for that assertion, because you can bet that the Catholic Encyclopedia never said any such thing.
 
Hi Jone and welcome to the forum. I’m going to try to respond to some of the points you bring up. Please excuse me for the piece-meal approach; it is the best way I know.

First. The bible says that God would use one earthly organization to accomplish his purposes.

True. Jesus established this entity in the first century. Interestingly, the word “organization” is not in the Bible - but the word ekklesia is - translated in many Bibles by the word “church”. Jesus said that the gates of hades would not prevail against this church:

Matthew 16:18 I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. (NASB)

and that the students of the apostles were to pass on the apostles’ teachings to other faithful men:

** 2 Timothy 2:1** and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. (RSV)

and that this church would be an object of glory to him throughout all generations, and for ever:

**Ephesians 3:21 ** to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. (RSV)

So I agree that God has always used an “organization”, at least since the beginning of the Christian era. I have a question for those whose “organization” started in the 19th Century - where was God’s organization in the year 1800? In the year 1000, etc.? If God always uses an organization, then why didn’t those in the 19th Century just go to that organization to get the truth?

** It also took out gods name out of the Bible.**

Today, if you walk into a popular bookstore to get a Bible with God’s name in it, you probably will walk out with either a Jerusalem Bible or a New Jerusalem Bible - both Catholic Bibles, and well respected by other religions. Additionally, they use a form of the Divine Name that is recognized by most as being more accurate than “Jehovah” - “Yahweh”, and they uses it only in the places (in the parts of the Bible that were originally written in Hebrew) where there is actual textual evidence to support it. On the other hand, the New World Translation has put the name Jehovah 237 times in the New Testament where that is not one ancient manuscript in existence to support it.

I would like to welcome you again to the forum Jone, and hope to see more of you around.
 
To minkymurph. I never said we were toys he throws out-you did. And yes he does destroy ones who are disobedient to him that are unrepentant. The bible is full of events of that, they were proud and unwilling to change.

To whom ever it may concern. I find if funny that you think I am a Jehova. Yes I have read their literature a few times. I did not know that they have a speech they use. I only talk about what I read from the bible. If that’s what you think, so be it. I don’t really care, I think it’s comical. I think it’s alot like calling the kettle black. I don’t think you act like a Christian does at all., speaking of Jaypee. I can’t ever imagine Jesus talking like you do.
To those of you who were kind and you know who you are, thank you. Your words are gracious and seasoned with salt like the Bible says.
No I don’t have a religion, I have been studying it in college for those of you who ask. I have researched things from many different aspects and formulating what I know from what IT says is true. However I can see very clearly what is NOT true which only points out more and more what is true. I don’t know if I’m making myself articulately clear. I have studied deeply what the original bible is. I’ve read the Catholic encyclopedia. I’ve read all kinds of literature. I believe what I see is people very defensive without accepting what It says rather than what they want to believe. Regardless. What I mean by being able to tell what it’s not is that Jesus always spoke respectfully and for those of you professing to be Christian who are rude. I think it shows clearly that you can call yourself whatever, but are not truly christian. Those just don’t match up to the qualities of what they are. I don’t mean it for anything but being honest from my research, not to be malicious as some are. The bible clearly states not to be that way argumentative.
 
Jone said:
To minkymurph. I never said we were toys he throws out-you did. And yes he does destroy ones who are disobedient to him that are unrepentant. The bible is full of events of that, they were proud and unwilling to change.

To whom ever it may concern. I find if funny that you think I am a Jehova. Yes I have read their literature a few times. I did not know that they have a speech they use. I only talk about what I read from the bible. If that’s what you think, so be it. I don’t really care, I think it’s comical. I think it’s alot like calling the kettle black. I don’t think you act like a Christian does at all., speaking of Jaypee. I can’t ever imagine Jesus talking like you do.
To those of you who were kind and you know who you are, thank you. Your words are gracious and seasoned with salt like the Bible says.
No I don’t have a religion, I have been studying it in college for those of you who ask. I have researched things from many different aspects and formulating what I know from what IT says is true. However I can see very clearly what is NOT true which only points out more and more what is true. I don’t know if I’m making myself articulately clear. I have studied deeply what the original bible is. I’ve read the Catholic encyclopedia. I’ve read all kinds of literature. I believe what I see is people very defensive without accepting what It says rather than what they want to believe. Regardless. What I mean by being able to tell what it’s not is that Jesus always spoke respectfully and for those of you professing to be Christian who are rude. I think it shows clearly that you can call yourself whatever, but are not truly christian. Those just don’t match up to the qualities of what they are. I don’t mean it for anything but being honest from my research, not to be malicious as some are. The bible clearly states not to be that way argumentative.
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Sorry Jone but your statement “First. The bible says that God would use one earthly organization to accomplish his purposes.”

Only the Jehovah Witnesses discuss an organization and your statement is word for word a direct quote from the Watchtower Site. Did this happen by coincidence or mental telepathy?
The Bible never mentions an organization.

Again: “That’s NOT what it’s about. It’s about what the Bible SAYS. Not you, me or anyone else for that matter.”

Again another direct quote from the watchtower.org.

And again another direct quote from watchtower.org right down to the reference of the catholic encyclopedia.

“He desires all to worship him in a way that is acceptable to him. Not what’s acceptable to our own wishes. Which leads me to my next thought. In history proven history, the Catholic Encyclopedia states that it’s own ideas ARE made up. It also took out gods name out of the Bible. This can all be proven.”

Now Jone, we can all read the watchtower.org site as well as anyone else. Are you really claiming this to be mere coincidence?

I really don’t care whether you are a Jehovah Witness or not. But they caution their people to be careful when on internet chat rooms with other religions that the Jehovah Witness not “fall into deceit” and misrepresent himself. By the way that little part is under the section on youth and teens and the use of the internet chat rooms. Perhaps you skipped that being engrossed in the section titled what we believe. 😃
 
Dear Jone,
I’m sorry if you don’t think I act like a Christian.
I have striven here to be direct and factual, not rude.
If that offends you, I’m sorry, but that’s just too bad.
At least I am not making a whip out of cords and driving
you away from the forums. I seem to remember someone in the scriptures taking a whip to people he disagreed with strongly.
His name started with a “J”, but I digress.

Jone, everything I have said here in this discussion is factual.
You claim you have done tons of research. Please tell me and all of us here, then, where in the Catholic Encyclopedia, does the Catholic Encyclopedia say that Catholic doctrines are made up, as you asserted.

I have referred you to early Church writers such as Justin Martyr to prove to you that the Early Church was Catholic.
Justin wrote three popular works you can google, namely,
The Dialogue with Trypho,
The First Apology of Justin Martyr, and
The Second Apology of Justin Martyr.
He wrote around 150 A.D. over 125 years before the Nicene Council which solemnly defined the full God-hood of Jesus.
I giving you references, you have given us none, and then accuse me of being a nonChristian because my direct approach doesn’t suit your taste.

Also, yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses definitely have a certain way of thinking and speaking. I was indoctrinated in that religion from a young age, read their literature religiously for many years, attended Kingdom Hall regularly, yes the Jehovah’s Witnesses have certain speech-patterns common to them and certain buzzwords which mean different things to them than those words mean to the rest of the world.
For example, one out of many, is the word, Christendom.
To anyone else in the world, Christendom simply refers to those nations which are primarily populated by Chistians.
To Jehovah’s Witnesses, however, the word “Christendom”
means false religions which falsely claim to be Christian.
Hence, they refer to “wicked old Christendom” during their talks, assemblies, and “wicked Christendom” in their literature.

I hope this post didn’t strike you as rude, but I have to say I notice that you have a double standard. You seem to feel perfectly free to say anything you please without proof, yet accuse me (primarily) of being argumentative and “unChristian” when I disagree with you with reasonable answers.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
 
Dear Jone,

I am sorry you get this feeling about jaypeeto. He has helped me many a time as my sisters here have also many a time. Maybe we are not giving each other a fair chance here to see that. I just can speek from my experience here and dont expect you to believe me since you dont know me at all!
Although, I hope we will! at least better anyway!

I will have to re-read your post since I need to get something done now, but I ask- have you read my posts on the bible yet? I know we all get busy so I was just wondering… Any thoughts on my posts regarding scripture???

I am glad you are back and look forward to more discussion with you, and lets not rush to judgement on anyone yet-- Jaypeeto is passionate about his faith and loves you more than you may realize as he is a Christian above all else, and we forget that you dont see his face or hear his tone on the internet— or maybe even his tears, wwe just dont know Jone, so lets pray to have peace with all and go on, please?👍
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
Dear Jone,
I’m sorry if you don’t think I act like a Christian.
I have striven here to be direct and factual, not rude.
If that offends you, I’m sorry, but that’s just too bad.
At least I am not making a whip out of cords and driving
you away from the forums. I seem to remember someone in the scriptures taking a whip to people he disagreed with strongly.
His name started with a “J”, but I digress.

Jone, everything I have said here in this discussion is factual.
You claim you have done tons of research. Please tell me and all of us here, then, where in the Catholic Encyclopedia, does the Catholic Encyclopedia say that Catholic doctrines are made up, as you asserted.

I have referred you to early Church writers such as Justin Martyr to prove to you that the Early Church was Catholic.
Justin wrote three popular works you can google, namely,
The Dialogue with Trypho,
The First Apology of Justin Martyr, and
The Second Apology of Justin Martyr.
He wrote around 150 A.D. over 125 years before the Nicene Council which solemnly defined the full God-hood of Jesus.
I giving you references, you have given us none, and then accuse me of being a nonChristian because my direct approach doesn’t suit your taste.

Also, yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses definitely have a certain way of thinking and speaking. I was indoctrinated in that religion from a young age, read their literature religiously for many years, attended Kingdom Hall regularly, yes the Jehovah’s Witnesses have certain speech-patterns common to them and certain buzzwords which mean different things to them than those words mean to the rest of the world.
For example, one out of many, is the word, Christendom.
To anyone else in the world, Christendom simply refers to those nations which are primarily populated by Chistians.
To Jehovah’s Witnesses, however, the word “Christendom”
means false religions which falsely claim to be Christian.
Hence, they refer to “wicked old Christendom” during their talks, assemblies, and “wicked Christendom” in their literature.

I hope this post didn’t strike you as rude, but I have to say I notice that you have a double standard. You seem to feel perfectly free to say anything you please without proof, yet accuse me (primarily) of being argumentative and “unChristian” when I disagree with you with reasonable answers.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
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Jaypeeto4-

It does not say the doctrines are made up in the catholic encyclopedia. However it does say exactly that on watchtower.org under “What we believe”. It says exactly that the Catholic Encyclopedia admits the doctrines are made up. coincidence huh because Jone here says they are not a JW.
 
Thanks for the clarification, tecquilamac.

Thanks for your kind words, Damascus.

Let me clarify that nothing would make me happier than to see Jone become a member of the one, true church of Christ that has existed from the days of the apostles, namely, the Catholic church, for Jones’ own eternal good.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
 
The idea of trinity was never supported by Nicea until he realized religious division was a threat to his empire thus Emporer THealasius established the creed of the council of Nicea in 381 C.E to rechange the formula of holy spirit, God and Jesus. The Encyclopedia says and I quote that the Trinity" is not…directly and immediately the work of God.“That’s the new Catholic Encyclopedia. It also in the Catholic Encyclopedia “In scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine persons are denoted together. Even the Encyclopedia of Religion says “Theologins today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity”. And the New Catholic Encyclopedia says” The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.” Yet Catholics believe this and yet the bible says to stay away from philosophies of men.
 
In reply to Jone, do I preach? I believe I preach every day of my life in many ways. I see nothing wrong with door to door preaching, I just don’t believe it’s the only way to preach, no disrespect, but what other ways apart from door to door do JW’s preach. I stand to be corrected, but they don’t seem to encourage other ways to preach apart from door to door and all other ways of preaching are nothing if your not going door to door. I have just today sent a message of hope to someone in prison. Do JW’s preach in prisons? I believe Jesus intended we should. On the point of being killed, I don’t believe people were killed solely for disobediance. If we were killed for disobeying God there would be no one left alive. People were killed primarily because they had no love of God, therefore they had no love of goodness. I don’t believe anyone can categorically state that all JW’s love God and goodness as there is evidence to the contrary and the same can be said of all denominations. Therefore, there is much more to salvation than being affiliated with a certain denomination and much more to salvation than preaching door to door. Of course, there are JW’s who do love God, I wouldn’t say none of them do, but not all of them do.
 
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