L
Lucretius
Guest
You ARE nuts
or, you are nuts as the world defines it. From the Heavenly point of view, everyone of the world are actually the once with screws loose 
Christi pax,
Lucretius
- Status
or, you are nuts as the world defines it. From the Heavenly point of view, everyone of the world are actually the once with screws loose Christi pax,
Lucretius
L
LutheranScholar
Guest
Point taken. Centuries of contention between our communions, plus the generally unwelcoming atmosphere Catholic immigrants encountered by native Protestants who questioned their right to be there might also account for a level of hostility. Not to mention, as displayed by myself and others on my side of the street, as it were, this tension is built in to our very theologies. The more defensive I get, the more compelled I feel at the end of the day to pray for everybody on CAF, regardless of Christian affiliation, not that they would " join my team," so much as that we’d all find ourselves walking with Jesus.Well, if that’s too brutally honest, then I’m just as guilty.I sometimes conjecture about how I’d guess things are on Protestant forums (e.g. the post you responded to) but it’s not based on direct experience of those sites, but rather on my knowledge of how-things-work generally and my experience on Catholic and Orthodox forums. (Well, and also things I’ve heard about Protestant forums.)
To those Protestant posters who complain about the CA forums, I’d like to challenge you all to consider how much of the problem is really just, if you will, the-way-things-are-on-internet-forums. :ehh: (Not that I’m trying to pin everything on the internet. We could also avoid mentioning the internet and say, for example: “There are certainly Protestants who are more about being anti-Catholic than being Protestant … so why are you all surprised that there are Catholics who are more about being anti-Protestant than being Catholic?” and so on and so forth.)
M
Mystophilus
Guest
No.
First, I have not expressed a relativist position: I have not said, nor do I think, that “true interpretation is based on the individual”. In fact, I have stated that history determines who is correct, a statement which demonstrates an objectivist position. Given the contradiction between what I have actually said and what you have enthusiastically read into it, I find your blaming Catholics’ reactions upon me (an inherently-suspect manoeuvre in any case) especially ironic.
Second, I think that you want “epistemologically higher”, not “ontologically higher”, since you are talking about the derivation of knowledge not the nature of being, but it is still wrong. Because Protestantism is broad and various, epistemologies vary, some most definitely including schemata which “resolve” any such doctrinal controversy in a manner analogous to the “resolution” in Catholic theology.
Third, that absolute Truth is unknowable is an epistemological position, whereas the claim that truth is relative to the individual is an ontological position. Since the two are thus causally independent, there is no reason to assume that the presence or absence of either indicates anything whatsoever about the presence or absence of the other.
This is as convincing as the previous quote.
E
Eric_Hilbert
Guest
General warning:
Charity and observation of posting rules please.
Charity and observation of posting rules please.
K
KendraDZ1902
Guest
You ARE nuts
Christi pax,
Lucretius
S
spedteacherita
Guest
Mind if I take notes? I’m always trying to figure out how to get more NCs/Protestants to take my posts seriously – or at least to respond to them
Sure!! I’m a former teacher - it would be wonderful to see someone actually taking notes about something I’ve said. I’ve been trying to find the post that I made that statement - can someone help me?
Thanks!
Rita
S
spedteacherita
Guest
I think the important point we need to take away from this is to understand these forums are for debates and that what we say to one another (1) should not be written in such a way as to denigrate anyone else here as we are all children of God and (2) this is a hard one for me- - - not to take the things said personally.
It’s so easy for us to sit behind our computers and get angry or upset at the words someone else has written to try and get their points across. The use of the cool icons
should help us understand better that what is being said is not directly meant for us personally.
Let’s debate, learn from each other, and walk away knowing we have friends with whom we can carry on more conversations later.
Let’s keep each other in prayer and remember that the enemy is thrilled when we get our backs up about something another Christian is saying. I, for one, don’t want to give him that type of entertainment.
God bless us all!!
In Him,
Rita
It’s so easy for us to sit behind our computers and get angry or upset at the words someone else has written to try and get their points across. The use of the cool icons
should help us understand better that what is being said is not directly meant for us personally.Let’s debate, learn from each other, and walk away knowing we have friends with whom we can carry on more conversations later.
Let’s keep each other in prayer and remember that the enemy is thrilled when we get our backs up about something another Christian is saying. I, for one, don’t want to give him that type of entertainment.
God bless us all!!
In Him,
Rita
L
LutheranScholar
Guest
Thanks, Rita. You’re right. It’s hard* not *to be passionate about something you’ve staked your life and your soul on, but courtesy is important. Dialogue can quickly deteriorate into polemics when you feel the other side is cheering for the destruction of things you hold very dear indeed. I’ve done it, I’m not proud of it, but if somebody wants to mention my faith as a negative, I’ll want to exact satisfaction. " Tit for tat" isn’t exactly what Our Lord taught, rather " if one wants you to carry a load one mile, go two miles. If he demands your coat, give him your shirt as well." I’ve seen and received too much good from the Lutherans and Confessional Lutheranism in my life to stand idly by while people try to submerge it ( in my estimation) into being something less than it is: a Christian fellowship and doctrine that preaches faith alone by grace alone on the principle of Scripture alone, with said Scripture being accurately expostulated in the Book of Concord, known alternatively as " Concordia: the Book of Lutheran Confessions." I still think that CA is the safest site for Christians to come together and dialogue and seeing people from the Religious Society of Friends, Evangelical churches, Anglican churches, Baptist churches, Coptic Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox churches together with both ELCA and LCMS ( I believe there’s at least one WELS member who posts here, too) Lutherans to join our voices with people of NC ( non- Christian) religious beliefs and people who have no religious faith at all in dialogue with Catholics loyal to the Roman See seem to bear that out. My prayers for us all to walk in the Lord Jesus Christ.I think the important point we need to take away from this is to understand these forums are for debates and that what we say to one another (1) should not be written in such a way as to denigrate anyone else here as we are all children of God and (2) this is a hard one for me- - - not to take the things said personally.
It’s so easy for us to sit behind our computers and get angry or upset at the words someone else has written to try and get their points across. The use of the cool icons
Let’s debate, learn from each other, and walk away knowing we have friends with whom we can carry on more conversations later.
Let’s keep each other in prayer and remember that the enemy is thrilled when we get our backs up about something another Christian is saying. I, for one, don’t want to give him that type of entertainment.
God bless us all!!
In Him,
Rita
F
frobert
Guest
Ok have a great day and thank you for answering my question.
God’s blessings to you
I like your calm, cool, collective style hope you don’t mind if I copy it.
A
aidanbradypop
Guest
I try!
Nice to see ya brother!
P
Peter_J
Guest
Peter,
If someone feels the need to call me a heretic then more power to them. I know I am not one and when they try to bait an argument, I simply smile and pray that God shows us both mercy.
Oh, you both make good points … but I’m also mindful of the warning in Vatican II’s Decree on Ecumenism, not to be “falsely conciliar/irenic” (depending which translation you use).
Not that we needed a council to tell us that.
P
Peter_J
Guest
Do you *really *want an answer to that?
But really, I think that often the best thing is to try an’ get people to “level up”. What I mean is, if someone is basing their view of Catholicism (resp. Protestantism) on an internet discussion forum, and you can get them to switch to basing it on, say, Catholic (resp. Protestant) authors/people who have their own TV shows, that should be an improvement.
(I’m trusting that The 700 Club is a reasonably good representation of Evangelical Protestantism, although I don’t know that for sure.)In saying this, I’m very much aware of the danger of overgeneralizing and oversimplifying. The last thing I want is to sound like I’m making a blanket “Professionals are good, amatuers are bad” :bighanky:.
T
Tomyris
Guest
The 700 Club is not a reasonably good representation of Evangelical Protestantism. Watching a show and deciding on that basis that that is what all Evangelical Protestants believe would be an error on the level of watching one show hosted by a nun and concluding that all Catholics wear habits.Do you *really *want an answer to that?
But really, I think that often the best thing is to try an’ get people to “level up”. What I mean is, if someone is basing their view of Catholicism (resp. Protestantism) on an internet discussion forum, and you can get them to switch to basing it on, say, Catholic (resp. Protestant) authors/people who have their own TV shows, that should be an improvement.
In saying this, I’m very much aware of the danger of overgeneralizing and oversimplifying. The last thing I want is to sound like I’m making a blanket “Professionals are good, amatuers are bad” :bighanky:.
L
LutheranScholar
Guest
Granny was forever watching Mother Angelica on EWTN… just a little trip down memory lane…
P
Peter_J
Guest
Thanks for clarifying that.
But I would still assume that it would be closer to representing Evangelical Protestantism than posts on an Evangelical discussion forum. (Right?)
But I would still assume that it would be closer to representing Evangelical Protestantism than posts on an Evangelical discussion forum. (Right?)
K
KendraDZ1902
Guest
Can’t one evangelical believe differently than another evangelical? Like, there isn’t a book or writing that lays out evangelical beliefs/rules/understandings, is there?
P
Peter_J
Guest
Well, I’ve never met a single person who said that they couldn’t (fwiw).
P
PRmerger
Guest
It won’t die out. But the gospel is being vitiated by Protestantism. And this is tragic indeed. Calamitous.
Because of the cardinal principle of Protestantism–“I don’t need any magisterium to tell me what is the kerygma”–it has resulted in the obscenity of tens of thousands of differing Christian denominations, each preaching that its own version of the gospel is the correct one.
This is the paradigm:
A pastor preaches.
A Christian listens.
Disagrees with pastor’s message.
Understands that this pastor is fallible, and by definition is going to be wrong at some point in his interpretation.
Christian says, “I can not abide by this erroneous interpretation”.
Christian leaves.
Christian church shops.
Christian joins a new church, hopeful.
Repeat above 1-2 more times, until Christian realizes: “this is silly!”
Christian says: “I can form my own church!”
#Christiangospelvitiatedyetagain
#yetanotherchristiandenomination
#toomanytocount
And no Protestant can raise objections to the above events since it is formed upon that which Protestantism rises (and falls).
T
Tomyris
Guest
That’s your personal interpretation.
Maybe not, because it seems widespread on CAF, but not found, I think, in the Catechism, which means it is not Catholic teaching.The confessional Protestant churches (Lutherans, most Prebyterians, Anglicans, for example) thoroughly reject that from the get-go, reserving interpretation at the denominational level (although allowing a great deal of liberty, as Catholics do, in many things).
And this neglects the working towards unity of many Protestants and the merger of many denominations, many times. That’s why there are the United Methodists, the United Church of Christ, and there is no more Reformed Presbyterian Church, Evangelical Synod, as they merged with the Presbyterian Church in America.
S
spedteacherita
Guest
Unfortunately that is not the case - there are many evangelical churches that do have different beliefs but, the majority of them do have the important belief
that Christ was born of the Virgin Mary, walked the earth teaching, healing, and forgiving the sins of many. They also believe that He was crucified which was prophesied in the Old Testament after He came into Jerusalem on the white donkey with people Hailing Him as King and Messiah only to have them turn their backs on Him and seek His death. They believe also that He instituted the Lord’s Supper (many believing in the Real Presence and yet others believing in it as a memorium). They continue to believe in the Crucifixion on Good Friday and all that Christ said in that particular time element. They believe that His body was taken to burial chamber given by Joseph of Aramathea and a large rock was rolled into place and guarded by Roman Soldiers. They believe in Christ’s resurrection, His presence until He rose back up to Heaven, and Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended as Jesus said He would. They wait expectantly for His return so that we’re taken up to live and praise the Father, Son and Holy Spirit for ever in Paradise.
I notice I didn’t say anything about baptism: Some believe in the baptism of babies and others believe that one should not be baptized until they’re at the age of being able to understand it’s meaning.
This is a concise definition of what evangelicals do believe - some are more liturgical and others not so.
Please add or take away if I’ve stated something or forgotten something of importance to the evangelical understandings we have.
In Christ’s love,
Rita
- Status