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vern_humphrey
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I really don’t think you have a good grasp of either economics or the Constitution.
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Hildebrand
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vern humphrey:
I love home developers, they are great for the economy.
You are confusing home builders with land speculators who buy homes and land, sit on it, and wait for prices to go up.
I love home developers, they are great for the economy.
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Hildebrand
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vern humphrey:
How so?
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Hildebrand
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vern humphrey:
Tariffs are like taxes. When you are faced with a depression or recession the last thing you do is raise taxes.
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Hildebrand
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Europe is a social welfare state, which is where this country is gradually heading.
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vern_humphrey
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You’re not making sense.
If people buy “homes and land, sit on it, and wait for prices to go up” they lose money – because unoccupied homes deteriorate and go down in value.
I think you’re seeing monsters under the bed – “speculators” and “capitalists.”
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Hildebrand
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I agree completely. I am opposed to minimum wages. In the end, they hurt workers.
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vern_humphrey
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Now you’re getting it. Tariffs have a depressing effect on the economy. They make it difficult for people in other countries to drag themselves out of poverty and they force the poor in this country to pay more than they should pay for goods.
Free trade benefits the poor more than anyone else.
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Hildebrand
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vern humphrey:
You have never heard of people buying homes and land in booming markets to sit and wait for the prices to go up… and in 6 months come out with a good profit?
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Hildebrand
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vern humphrey:
Tariffs are like taxes. I’d prefer tariffs and sales taxes over property and income taxes.
I am for international trade, with low/moderate tariffs.
I have always gotten it.
Tariffs are like taxes. I’d prefer tariffs and sales taxes over property and income taxes.I am for international trade, with low/moderate tariffs.
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vern_humphrey
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Give me a cite for someone doing this – buying homes and sitting on them doesn’t make sense.
And in the end, who’s hurt if they do it? People buy all sorts of things, from stocks to antiques on the expectation that the value will increase. How is this wrong?
You asked how I conclude you know little about economics or the Constituition. This claim of yours that people routinely buy homes and sit on them – and that it’s somehow wrong – is a good example of why I say you don’t understand economics.
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Hildebrand
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You view cooperation in the context of the capitalistic system. It is true, this system is ordered to seek enormous profit, not the common good.
Such as the front-page article of my local newspaper’s: Health insurance company’s profits double from 100 million to 200 million in one year. This company says because of this great news, health insurance premiums will only go up by about 10% this year (not the 20% it did last year). Not only that, if these profits keep going up like this, premiums will only increase around 10% every year.
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vern_humphrey
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From your previous posts, I think I might be pardoned for thinking you meant it when you said you didn’t “believe in free trade” and wanted tariffs to prevent other countries from selling goods that could be produced here.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gifI have always gotten it.
I am for international trade, with low/moderate tariffs.
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Hildebrand
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vern humphrey:
vern humphrey:
I support real home ownership. That means no property taxes… thus more people would be tempted to own land and do nothing with it, sitting on it and increase the cost of buying one of the most vital things in a person’s life - a home.
vern humphrey:
They hurt people who want to buy homes at more affordable prices.
vern humphrey:
When you buy stocks, you invest in a company, you add value to it, make it more (viable? - lack of a better term), etc. Collectors of art can buy whatever they want. High priced antiques is does not make it much harder for people to own homes, etc.
I support real home ownership. That means no property taxes… thus more people would be tempted to own land and do nothing with it, sitting on it and increase the cost of buying one of the most vital things in a person’s life - a home.
vern humphrey:
That is what many rich people have done in this economy. Especially in this housing market which has experienced increases in housing values for years on end.
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Hildebrand
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If Canada has a socialized health care system, then we Americans have a socialized education system. Vouchers would help break our social educational system and give Americans more freedom of choice. Catholic schools produce a high quality education at a relatively low price. This is not achieved through competition, but cooperation.
Imagine if Catholic Schools were run as profit driven factories. “We are giving little Bobby a DISCOUNTED education because his parents are very poor and cannot afford it here? Are you crazy! Why don’t we use the money being wasted on him, along with bucking up tuition, and build a new state-of-the-art school right next to St. Mary’s Elementary. That school is old fashion. They have Windows 98 computers and the teachers do NOT, I repeat, do NOT teach in PowerPoint Presentation!! Here’s my idea, we run a 2.5 million dollar advertising program to get the parents of St. Mary’s Elementary students to go to our brand-new state-of-the-art school. That’ll shut that dumb St. Mary’s down. By the way, as CEO of this Catholic Schools Cooperation, I demand a raise in my 1.1 Million salary to 4.9 million with more stock options.”
Real world example of cooperation within a certain industry would be the guild system.
What is desireable is the restoration a guild-like system (cooperative associations of small capitalists) as a non-governmental regulatory agency… promoting cooperation within industry toward the common good. This sometimes happens (with great results) in our American economy.
Get rid of much of the government (federal and state) regulatory agencies. They hurt more than they help.
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Hildebrand
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That cannot be done. But you must know the origin of our current economic system.
I am not opposed to a market capitalism that seeks the common good, along with profits.
The Protestant Revolt was a revolution of the “well to do’s”. They desired to do whatever they damn well pleased (and I stress damn because those who seek to do what they damn well please damn themselves). They did not want to be controlled by the Church. They did not want to serve the common good. They stole Church lands (monasteries, hospitals, etc), grabbed more power and wealth. Self-centered/selfish rugged individualism in the West traces it main roots to the Protestant Revolt (and beyond).
Our American economy is a heretical Protestant economy with a growing social welfare state within it (both of which are not the best things). This does not mean we have to give up and withdraw from it. Most certainly not, we are the light of the world and must become true beacons of the true way of serving God and the common good.
Neither does not it mean we must settle for a heretical system that highly rewards and concentrates wealth and power in the hands of those whose interests are greed, lust, pride, avarice, and sloth – all at the expense of the common good.
I understand fully, you cannot go directly and quickly from one system to another, or else you will face what was experienced in Russia after they went from communism to capitalism (an atheistic economic system to a heretical protestant economic system). Gradual and planned changes are needed.
I am for trade, “capitalism” (ownership of property, right to own land/business, commerce, etc), and free markets - of the past. Close to the kind of system that existed during the Middle Ages. I appologize if I was not clearer before, but when I use the term capitalist/capitalism, I am using it in reference to the libertarian sense (a capitalism without the thought of the consequences).
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Hildebrand
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Ou government does outlaw certain professions and ways of making a living. Some areas outlaw pimps and prostitutes. The nation criminalizes the sale of alcohol to adults ages 18-20. Bar owners can be fined (or worse) for selling more alcohol to obviously very drunken individuals. We outlaw the sale of tobacco and pornography to children. Although, the Supreme Court has ruled pornography is a freedom of speech issue. Therefore, smut peddlers are free to make money off of selling smut.
All these areas involve legislating against economic activity that serves against the common good of society.
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Hildebrand
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My apologies.
I know how people can make a quick buck. Get a list of recovering alcoholics through paid surveys and questionnaires, and have a beer and liquor salesman visit their homes once a week. “Having a bad day? Alcohol certainly can help you feel better. Don’t have money on you now? No worry, getting alcohol requires no money down, no payments for one year!”
You think it is immoral? First of all that is a value judgement. People should be allowed to make a living using their talents. Second, the recovering alcoholics should have not been so open with surveys and questionnaires.
Many credit cards offers prey on the weakness of people. After many poor (and foolish) people have already had credit cards problems in the past and declared bankruptcy, credit card companies are right there to “support” them (flooding them) with new credit card offers. If the credit card companies were truly looking out for the common good, they would not offer their services to sick people who need help in exhibiting self-control.
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vern_humphrey
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Let me explain. In the scenario you paint, the profit is the effect. The rise in price is the cause. If prices do not rise, there is no profit. But since the prices must rise before the profit, the cost to those who want to buy affordable homes is already high.
Let me also point out that – aside from homes deteriorating and losing value while unoccupied – the supply of homes is not bounded. If you want an affordable home, you can always build your own – as I did. You don’t have to have any skills – you find a good contractor to do the work.
(For those who are following this thread, this illustrates how competition holds prices down. If prices start going up, other suppliers enter the field – and the guy sitting on thousands of deteriorating unoccupied homes loses big time.)
A good example of confused economic thinking. I’ve already explained how your scenario would fail.
You on the other hand, have not shown that any significant number of houses are being kept off the market by “speculators.”
You’ll have to explain this to me – you support no property taxes, which you say will drive up the cost of homes?
Aside from the fact that the scenario you paint can’t work – as I have shown – you have failed to show that any significant number of houses are being kept off the market.
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Hildebrand
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And if we don’t seek justice, we will be heading that way.
What is the alternative to a moral economy? Some may say we can keep our current morally troubled economy. Don’t forget things change. The sins of our economic system results in much outcry and consequently many people embrace socialism and the social welfare state. In the long run, it is much better to make slow gradual changes towards a more moral (capitalistic) economy than to slowly slouch into socialism.
I think we can all agree that this nation is closer to socialism than it was 100 years ago and we are not making progress in the opposite direction, especially with the “New Deal” and the “Great Society”.
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