The End of the Consumer Church in America

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vern humphrey:
It’s criticizing people we never met, who are doing things that we don’t do because we are lacking the self-discipline, courage and ability that gets me.

That’s why I keep asking, if someone else has a duty to his employees, don’t the rest of us have the same duty?
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Yeah, I think the OP got tired of this questioning.
 
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Fitz:
Yeah, I think the OP got tired of this questioning.
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Funny how the Holier-than-thou Club loses interest when someone turns around and asks them why they don’t have the same moral obligations they would load on others, isn’t it?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
 
vern humphrey:
Let me put it in plain English. If other people have an obligation to pay what you call a “living wage,” you have the same obligation.

Why aren’t you living up to it?

Suppose some employer said, “I did not say I was interested in paying a living wage.” Would that excuse them from their obligation in your eyes?

You missed the point. If **others **are obligated to pay what you call a “living wage,” you have the same obligation. Saying “I’m not interested” doesn’t relieve you of that obligation.

Other people work hard, scrimp and sacrifice, then risk all their savings to start businesses and employ other people. You don’t do that, and yet you feel qualified to criticize.
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You obviously have confused me with another poster. I believe in paying a living wage. I’m all for it. I am not against it. Why do you continue to argue with people even when they tell you that they believe in paying a living wage.

Scripture says an employer, at least a “good” one, must pay a living wage. So why would I be against that? I am not.

Have you gotten so caught up with arguing with everyone on this board that you no longer can understand what individual posters are saying?

Take your anger to the confessional, I don’t have time to banter with someone who doesn’t even understand simple sentences!
 
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seabird3579:
You obviously have confused me with another poster. I believe in paying a living wage. I’m all for it. I am not against it. Why do you continue to argue with people even when they tell you that they believe in paying a living wage.
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"Say is one thing, “do” is another.

How much do you pay your employees?
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seabird3579:
Scripture says an employer, at least a “good” one, must pay a living wage. So why would I be against that? I am not.
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So how much do you pay your employees?
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seabird3579:
Have you gotten so caught up with arguing with everyone on this board that you no longer can understand what individual posters are saying?

Take your anger to the confessional, I don’t have time to banter with someone who doesn’t even understand simple sentences!
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Take your anger and your holier-than-thou attitude there. And ask yourself why you have failed to employ people and pay them a living wage.
 
vern humphrey said:
"Say is one thing, “do” is another.

…

Take your anger and your holier-than-thou attitude there. And ask yourself why you have failed to employ people and pay them a living wage.
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Vern, do you purport to tell politicians how they should conduct themselves in office?

You’re not a politician, obviously. Why have you failed to get elected to public office? Doesn’t the fact that you have failed to get elected to public office mean that you have no business telling those who have what to do?

You’re not a bishop. Why have you failed to become a bishop? Etc.

I think your point is that the only people who are should be allowed to criticize are those who are in the exact same position as the person who’s being criticized. Have I got it right?
 
Penny Plain:
Vern, do you purport to tell politicians how they should conduct themselves in office?

You’re not a politician, obviously. Why have you failed to get elected to public office? Doesn’t the fact that you have failed to get elected to public office mean that you have no business telling those who have what to do?
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Actually, I ran for Congress in '04. I am currently involved in supporting key candidates for the '06 election and in the building and strengthening of the political organization in the First District of Arkansas.
Penny Plain:
You’re not a bishop. Why have you failed to become a bishop? Etc.
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I have extended the Assent of Faith – I listen to and follow the teachings of the bishops.

Can you say the same?
Penny Plain:
I think your point is that the only people who are should be allowed to criticize are those who are in the exact same position as the person who’s being criticized. Have I got it right?
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No, you’re wrong as usual.
 
Well then stop reading it - I did (-:
This thread was doomed from the start anyway. Let them have their discussion / chair-throwing contest about economics or politics or whatever the heck it is if that’s what they want, doesn’t bother me.
 
I only read the first post but I have a major disagreement with the OPs position.

I live in a small town. There are a couple Lexus-type SUVs driven by two of the larger business owners. They don’t fit the profile you paint.

The first owns a trucking company. He built the company himself and has grown it into a multi-million dollar company. He’s rich and could buy the whole town. He is also extremely philanthropic but not a lot of people know it. He donates very generously to our parish and always makes up the difference when we fall short of our Annual Stewardship appeal. He never wants recognition. He donated millions to various projects in our area – adult day care, hospice house, etc. He donated several trucks and drivers to haul supplies to hurricane damaged areas in the gulf.

He is a genuine man who is just as comfortable sitting at his old friends modest farmhouse kitchen table playing cards as he is sitting in his lake home. I don’t begrudge him one bit for owning a nice home on a lake. He earned his money and gives more in a year to help the less fortunate than most of us in our parish could ever give in a lifetime combined!

The other business owners are my husband’s bosses. It’s a family-owned business that is doing well and providing jobs for many in the community. They freely give generous raises to their employees, allow family time when needed without asking questions or penalizing the employee, and in general treat all the employees like family. They are not as philanthropic as the first gentleman but don’t have the abiltiy to be. They do personally donate a lot of money to church on a personal basis and are generous when it comes to donating for food pantry and other such causes.

Neither of these examples show selfishness or greed and to paint all wealthy people with a broad brush shows a lack of knowledge of the real world. I have a son who is a college student and he’s got a lot to learn about the real world, too. In fact, I sometimes see college and high school students driving better vehicles than I drive. Fortunately, I don’t see them in our church parking lot. Most of them come with their families or with an old rusted car.
 
Don’t worry Denise. The OP is a socialist. He admitted that a couple posts back. Obviously this is not in line with the Church’s teachings.
 
There was an excellent book published in the '90s, called “The Millionaire Next Door.” It was a study of millionaires in America. Among the findings about millionaires:
  • Most made it by themselves – they inhereted nothing
  • Most still live in the same house they bought when young.
  • Most of their neighbors don’t know they are millionaires
  • Most of them are still married to the same spouse.
  • Most of them drive low-cost vehicles. The most common being the Ford 150 pickup.
  • Most of them work in their own business.
They are, in fact, solid citizens who live pretty much as the Church would want them to live. Their contributions to society are all out of proportion to the benefits they personally ereceive-- they create jobs for the rest of us.
 
vern humphrey:
There was an excellent book published in the '90s, called “The Millionaire Next Door.” It was a study of millionaires in America. Among the findings about millionaires:
  • Most made it by themselves – they inhereted nothing
  • Most still live in the same house they bought when young.
  • Most of their neighbors don’t know they are millionaires
  • Most of them are still married to the same spouse.
  • Most of them drive low-cost vehicles. The most common being the Ford 150 pickup.
  • Most of them work in their own business.
They are, in fact, solid citizens who live pretty much as the Church would want them to live. Their contributions to society are all out of proportion to the benefits they personally ereceive-- they create jobs for the rest of us.
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Very true. I have that book. 😃
 
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