The ethics of prostylizing as it relates to LDS methodologies

[RebeccaJ]

RebeccaJ has a child who was never baptized and she’s been contacted by the LDS church for years. Hopefully your children won’t be followed the way hers was.

Ha, yeah. We didn’t resign. I was not LDS for a good 15 years before I became aware there was such a thing. I don’t know why I should jump through the hoops of an organization I haven’t participated in, for what is now 30 years. I think it is silly, really.

My daughter was blessed, that is her entire involvement in Mormonism. Mormons told me she was a “child of record”, even though she was not baptized. Mormons told me at 18 she would be dropped from the Mormon records. Ha! And hahaha! She’s not living with us any more. All grown up and fledged. Someone still came over from the ward RS to give her treats on her birthday. Which is fine, a nice gesture and all. But I have to seriously wonder how old we’ll all be before she isn’t viewed as a member of the ward!

I don’t think Mormon paperwork is as neat and tidy as Mormons would like to think.

 

[RebeccaJ]

)

1. “No thank you” means No.
2. Look to a person’s heart: if they mean well, try not to take offense.
3. For minors, nothing is done without parental permission.

More suggestions?

7- One missionary experience, of many, had three young men at my door. To every sentence one of them said, I said, “I’m not interested.” It was a comedy, as he just kept asking me what was obviously a prepared list of questions and I just kept saying, “I’m not interested.”

8- Good intent does not turn something evil into something good.

9- All I can say is, LOL! You just keep believing that. My daughter had been given 3 Book of Mormons before she turned 18. One was from my mom, so I’m ok to discount that one as proselytizing. The other two were blatant attempts to convert my underaged daughter, by people I have never met, to this day.

 

[lax16]

Is it unethical for Sue to ask Jr if she’d like to come to class? Obviously to actually come to class she’d need XuDan Sr’s permission. I don’t think such is unethical because 1) if Jr doesn’t want to come to class a simple “no” answers it, 2) regardless of what Jr wants, Sr’s got to be okay with it and what Sr says goes, 3) if this is something truly terrible Sr probably has educated Jr to say “no” regardless.
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jane_doe -

It is very unethical for an adult to ask a child anything personal.

I live in Utah and I know of someone who used to be Mormon and had a child. She converted to Catholicism and married a Catholic and together they had three more children.

When the oldest was old enough to babysit the couple would go to work. Mom and dad found out that while they were gone missionaries were visiting the house and speaking with the four minors. On the day the missionaries were coming to baptize them, the dad found out and stayed behind while mom went to work.

Dad opened the door and let the missionaries know that if they ever came back again he would call the police. Really, really predatory, doncha think?

I’ve had our not-Mormon-anymore friends constantly trying to convert our son. I would not allow him to hear their “bedtime stories” when he was little or go down in the basement with the teens when he was older. They completely ignored my demands to leave our son alone. It caused tremendous problems in my marriage and they did not care.

We were in a carpool with a Mormon family and the teenage son was always asking about Catholicism and asking my son to take him to church. I told my son that until his friend turned 18 to keep it to polite conversation. I would answer his questions in very general terms and would never talk against his church. Ever. It is the wrong thing to do.

We should all be respectful of each other’s religions, at all times

 

[jane_doe]

We were in a carpool with a Mormon family and the teenage son was always asking about Catholicism and asking my son to take him to church. I told my son that until his friend turned 18 to keep it to polite conversation. I would answer his questions in very general terms and would never talk against his church. Ever. It is the wrong thing to do.

We should all be respectful of each other’s religions, at all times

So you would save that my Catholic friend whom invited me to her confirmation and performances in Stations of the Cross was acting unethically?

 

[jane_doe]

Btw- have a memorable time at Stations of the Cross tonight everyone!

 

[RebeccaJ]

Btw- have a memorable time at Stations of the Cross tonight everyone!

it’s Good Friday, no Stations, but Good Friday service is at noon.

 

[lax16]

So you would save that my Catholic friend whom invited me to her confirmation and performances in Stations of the Cross was acting unethically?

Yes, if you were underage and your parents were not consulted first.

 

[lax16]

Btw- have a memorable time at Stations of the Cross tonight everyone!

Thank you. We meet in the church parking lot at 3:00 on Good Friday where they have put up temporary crosses and pray the Stations of the Cross.

 

[jane_doe]

Yes, if you were underage and your parents were not consulted first.

That’s a pity.

Her inviting me to her confirmation was the start of a beautiful friendship between the two of us, partially because both of us didn’t have to hide the part of us that loved God.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thank you. We meet in the church parking lot at 3:00 on Good Friday where they have put up temporary crosses and pray the Stations of the Cross.

Nice. Our parish has Good Friday service at noon, and then choral meditation at 3. The noon service has all the kids from our school in attendance, all uniformly seated in their uniforms.

 

[lax16]

That’s a pity.

Her inviting me to her confirmation was the start of a beautiful friendship between the two of us, partially because both of us didn’t have to hide the part of us that loved God.

Unfortunately, my experience is that Mormons do not invite non-Mormon children to their events to start beautiful friendships.

Do you live in Utah?

 

[lax16]

Nice. Our parish has Good Friday service at noon, and then choral meditation at 3. The noon service has all the kids from our school in attendance, all uniformly seated in their uniforms.

That must be very moving. The choir and music at the Cathedral are very impressive indeed.

 

[Stevenrushing]

I find it strange to believe that proselytizing is immoral in itself (not speaking to the proselytizing kiddos). I had always been taught (as a Baptist and Mormon) that the great commission (Matthew 28:16-20) essentially commanded the preaching of the gospel to those who did not have it (or who we did not believe had it at least). Even if we are wrong (and I now believe I was wrong in the LDS faith, although I still attend and participate fully to keep the peace in the family), our intentions were to keep the commandment of the Lord to “feed his sheep”.

As for the specific example given in the OP. I now know that the 3rd hour teacher did not know your children, had never taught your children, and appeared to be visiting your home specifically to invite you guys to church. She was wrong to address your children directly before going through you guys. Had the situation been a little bit different, had she been a previous teacher and you guys had simply not been in a few months, or even a year, and your children knew her, I would not have had a problem with her speaking to them.

In any case, the local ward should have cut off contact after being asked to, and I am sorry they did not.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I find it strange to believe that proselytizing is immoral in itself (not speaking to the proselytizing kiddos). I had always been taught (as a Baptist and Mormon) that the great commission (Matthew 28:16-20) essentially commanded the preaching of the gospel to those who did not have it (or who we did not believe had it at least). Even if we are wrong (and I now believe I was wrong in the LDS faith, although I still attend and participate fully to keep the peace in the family), our intentions were to keep the commandment of the Lord to “feed his sheep”.

As for the specific example given in the OP. I now know that the 3rd hour teacher did not know your children, had never taught your children, and appeared to be visiting your home specifically to invite you guys to church. She was wrong to address your children directly before going through you guys. Had the situation been a little bit different, had she been a previous teacher and you guys had simply not been in a few months, or even a year, and your children knew her, I would not have had a problem with her speaking to them.

In any case, the local ward should have cut off contact after being asked to, and I am sorry they did not.

There is a difference between proselytizing and evangelizing.

 

[lax16]

I find it strange to believe that proselytizing is immoral in itself (not speaking to the proselytizing kiddos). I had always been taught (as a Baptist and Mormon) that the great commission (Matthew 28:16-20) essentially commanded the preaching of the gospel to those who did not have it (or who we did not believe had it at least). Even if we are wrong (and I now believe I was wrong in the LDS faith, although I still attend and participate fully to keep the peace in the family), our intentions were to keep the commandment of the Lord to “feed his sheep”.

As for the specific example given in the OP. I now know that the 3rd hour teacher did not know your children, had never taught your children, and appeared to be visiting your home specifically to invite you guys to church. She was wrong to address your children directly before going through you guys. Had the situation been a little bit different, had she been a previous teacher and you guys had simply not been in a few months, or even a year, and your children knew her, I would not have had a problem with her speaking to them.

In any case, the local ward should have cut off contact after being asked to, and I am sorry they did not.

Hi Stevenrushing - how do you define proselytizing? Maybe that is where the differences and confusion comes in.

 

[lax16]

There is a difference between proselytizing and evangelizing.

Exactly.

 

[Stevenrushing]

There is a difference between proselytizing and evangelizing.

Please go on. I always saw the difference much like the difference between the words “indoctrinating” and “brainwashing”. Brainwashing has a bad connotation, but they mean the same thing…

 

[RebeccaJ]

That must be very moving. The choir and music at the Cathedral are very impressive indeed.

They work very hard. Holy Week, especially the Triduum, has them all tuckered out and they’ll take the next couple of weeks off. But yes, when they sing the Gloria tomorrow night while the now silent bells are ringing, I just want to cry for joy. But I’m a softie that way.

 

[lax16]

They work very hard. Holy Week, especially the Triduum, has them all tuckered out and they’ll take the next couple of weeks off. But yes, when they sing the Gloria tomorrow night while the now silent bells are ringing, I just want to cry for joy. But I’m a softie that way.

I’ll have to add that to our bucket list. My kids would absolutely love that!

 

[RebeccaJ]

Please go on. I always saw the difference much like the difference between the words “indoctrinating” and “brainwashing”. Brainwashing has a bad connotation, but they mean the same thing…

Proselyting disrespects the person being targeted. Approaching the person in a manner that they need to be “fixed”.

Evangelization sees the person first, respecting them for who they are, and shows them Christ, to whom they can come to, as they are, if they so desire.

Or if you will, one is ambushing a person with a bucket of water thrown over their heads. The other shows them there is a well where they are welcome to drink from, if they so desire.