The Eucharist in Lutheran and other protestant religions?

[k5thbeatle]

I hope someone can help me but I am looking for a little insight as to exactly what Lutherans (and other protestant religions I suppose) exactly believe in regards to their communion/Eucharist service? And I guess as a follow up what is the truth regarding this?

Thanks

 

[Imtrying]

I used to be High Lutheran before I converted. During lutheran confirmation we received no instruction concerning the nature of communion

 

[k5thbeatle]

Really? That is mildly surprising? Why do you suppose that was or would you say yours was an exception? I am most curious.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I hope someone can help me but I am looking for a little insight as to exactly what Lutherans (and other protestant religions I suppose) exactly believe in regards to their communion/Eucharist service?

Martin Luther believed in the Real Presence. There is a variety of belief among Lutherans today. It is probably correct to say that most Protestants today believe that communion is only symbolic.

Luther’s Small Catechism:
“What is the Sacrament of the Altar?
It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, under the bread and wine, for us Christians to eat and to drink, instituted by Christ Himself.”

 

[BartholomewB]

I am looking for a little insight as to exactly what Lutherans (and other protestant religions I suppose) exactly believe in regards to their communion/Eucharist service?

The same doubt has occurred to me. I hope to find the answer in this book (link below), Understanding Four Views On The Lord’s Supper, by Thomas Baima and three others, a ten-year-old book published by Zondervan. It was recommended to me by a reliable online source. I haven’t read it yet, but it’s on my list. A Catholic theologian (Baima) and three others – a Lutheran, a Baptist, and a Calvinist – set out their respective churches’ doctrine on the Eucharist and each of the four 15- to 20-page presentations is followed by comments by the other three authors.

http://www.zondervan.com/understanding-four-views-on-the-lord-s-supper

 

[JonNC]

I used to be High Lutheran before I converted. During lutheran confirmation we received no instruction concerning the nature of communion

What? You didn’t study the Small Catechism ?

 

[Kei]

They believe in the Real Presence, but that it still was bread, as opposed to the substance changing.

In general.

Other protestants have varying views, from being just symbolic to essentially Catholicism without the Apostolic succession.

 

[Imtrying]

My experience with other lutherans was that no one really cared or knew what was going on in the bi-weekly communion service. The amount reverence shown did not indicate to me that we considered communion to be anything more than grape juice and chiclet shaped crackers. My experience might be unique, the ELCA was moving in unorthodox directions at that time. I left before the LCMC schismed from the ELCA

 

[Imtrying]

we only received instruction about church history and the trinity, a group within the church claimed the trinity was a collection of Indian nature spirits, who controlled the air, earth, and water.

 

[JonNC]

I hope someone can help me but I am looking for a little insight as to exactly what Lutherans (and other protestant religions I suppose) exactly believe in regards to their communion/Eucharist service? And I guess as a follow up what is the truth regarding this?

Thanks

Lutherans believe that Christ’s body and blood are truly and substantially present in the sacrament, by the power of the Holy Spirit when the pastor speaks the verba.
Lutherans do not use metaphysical terminology when describing the real presence, like transubstantiation and consubstantiation. They are, both of them, heterodoxy. They will use the phrase “Sacramental Union”.

Anglican beliefs can range broadly, but the real presence is usually affirmed. Some Anglo-Catholics will use the term Transubstatiation.
For me, I believe Christ when He says, " this isMy body", etc. and agree with John of Demascus when he says: "If you inquire how this happens, it is enough for you to learn that it is through the Holy Spirit … we know nothing more than this, that the Word of God is true, active, and omnipotent, but in its manner of operation unsearchable.”

 

[JonNC]

we only received instruction about church history and the trinity, a group within the church claimed the trinity was a collection of Indian nature spirits, who controlled the air, earth, and water.

That’s not "high Church Lutheran " at all. That’s not any kind of Lutheran. Such horribly poor catechesis. I’m happy you found better faith tradition

 

[JonNC]

My experience with other lutherans was that no one really cared or knew what was going on in the bi-weekly communion service. The amount reverence shown did not indicate to me that we considered communion to be anything more than grape juice and chiclet shaped crackers. My experience might be unique, the ELCA was moving in unorthodox directions at that time. I left before the LCMC schismed from the ELCA

I moved to the LCMS long before that.

 

[JonNC]

The main symbols for the Lutheran tradition
The Augsburg Confession
**Article X: Of the Lord’s Supper.

1] Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed 2] to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise. **

The Apology of the Augsburg Confession
**Article X: Of the Holy Supper.

54] The Tenth Article has been approved, in which we confess that we believe, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered, with those things which are seen, bread and wine, to those who receive the Sacrament. This belief we constantly defend, as the subject has been carefully examined and considered. For since Paul says, 1 Cor. 10:16, that the bread is the communion of the Lord’s body, etc., it would follow, if the Lord’s body were not truly present, that the bread is not a communion of the body, but only of the spirit of Christ. 55] And we have ascertained that not only the Roman Church affirms the bodily presence of Christ, but the Greek Church also both now believes, and formerly believed, the same. For the canon of the Mass among them testifies to this, in which the priest clearly prays that the bread may be changed and become the very body of Christ. And Vulgarius, who seems to us to be not a silly writer, says distinctly that bread is not a mere figure, but 56] is truly changed into flesh. And there is a long exposition of Cyril on John 15, in which he teaches that Christ is corporeally offered us in the Supper. For he says thus: Nevertheless, we do not deny that we are joined spiritually to Christ by true faith and sincere love. But that we have no mode of connection with Him, according to the flesh, this indeed we entirely deny. And this, we say, is altogether foreign to the divine Scriptures. For who has doubted that Christ is in this manner a vine, and we the branches, deriving thence life for ourselves? Hear Paul saying 1 Cor. 10:17; Rom. 12:5; Gal. 3:28: We are all one body in Christ; although we are many, we are, nevertheless, one in Him; for we are, all partakers of that one bread. Does he perhaps think that the virtue of the mystical benediction is unknown to us? Since this is in us, does it not also, by the communication of Christ’s flesh, cause Christ to dwell in us bodily? And a little after: Whence we must consider that Christ is in us not only according to the habit, which we call love, 57] but also by natural participation, etc. We have cited these testimonies, not to undertake a discussion here concerning this subject, for His Imperial Majesty does not disapprove of this article, but in order that all who may read them may the more clearly perceive that we defend the doctrine received in the entire Church, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered with those things which are seen, bread and wine. And we speak of the presence of the living Christ [living body]; for we know that death hath no more dominion over Him, Rom. 6:9.**

 

[JonNC]

The Small Catechism

VI. The Sacrament of the Altar
As the head of the family should teach it in a simple way to his household.

What is the Sacrament of the Altar?

It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, under the bread and wine, for us Christians to eat and to drink, instituted by Christ Himself.

Where is this written?

The holy Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and St. Paul, write thus:

Our Lord Jesus Christ, the same night in which He was betrayed, took bread: and when He had given thanks, He brake it, and gave it to His disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is My body, which is given for you. This do in remembrance of Me.

After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Take, drink ye all of it. This cup is the new testament in My blood, which is shed for you for the remission of sins. This do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me.

What is the benefit of such eating and drinking?

That is shown us in these words: Given, and shed for you, for the remission of sins; namely, that in the Sacrament forgiveness of sins, life, and salvation are given us through these words. For where there is forgiveness of sins, there is also life and salvation.

How can bodily eating and drinking do such great things?

It is not the eating and drinking, indeed, that does them, but the words which stand here, namely: Given, and shed for you, for the remission of sins. Which words are, beside the bodily eating and drinking, as the chief thing in the Sacrament; and he that believes these words has what they say and express, namely, the forgiveness of sins.

Who, then, receives such Sacrament worthily?

Fasting and bodily preparation is, indeed, a fine outward training; but he is truly worthy and well prepared who has faith in these words: Given, and shed for you, for the remission of sins.

But he that does not believe these words, or doubts, is unworthy and unfit; for the words For you require altogether believing hearts.

 

[GKMotley]

Transubstantiation. And Trent, XIIIth Session, Canon 1.

 

[JonNC]

Transubstantiation. And Trent, XIIIth Session, Canon 1.

CANON I.-If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

Yep.

 

[ltwin]

I hope someone can help me but I am looking for a little insight as to exactly what Lutherans (and other protestant religions I suppose) exactly believe in regards to their communion/Eucharist service? And I guess as a follow up what is the truth regarding this?

JohnNC has answered your question in regards to Lutheranism.

In regards to Presbyterians and other Reformed Christians, they believe Christ is not present physically in the elements, but he is spiritually present. Those who receive the elements with faith can receive the actual body and blood of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit which works through the sacrament. This is sometimes called Receptionism.

Methodists believe the Lord’s Supper is a means of grace and not merely symbolic (although they would most likely affirm a sort of spiritual presence). John Wesley wrote of the Holy Communion:

1. A Second reason why every Christian should do this as often as he can, is, because the benefits of doing it are so great to all that do it in obedience to him; viz., the forgiveness of our past sins and the present strengthening and refreshing of our souls. In this world we are never free from temptations. Whatever way of life we are in, whatever our condition be, whether we are sick or well, in trouble or at ease, the enemies of our souls are watching to lead us into sin. And too often they prevail over us. Now, when we are convinced of having sinned against God, what surer way have we of procuring pardon from him, than the “showing forth the Lord’s death;” and beseeching him, for the sake of his Son’s sufferings, to blot out all our sins?
2. The grace of God given herein confirms to us the pardon of our sins, by enabling us to leave them. As our bodies are strengthened by bread and wine, so are our souls by these tokens of the body and blood of Christ. This is the food of our souls: This gives strength to perform our duty, and leads us on to perfection. If, therefore, we have any regard for the plain command of Christ, if we desire the pardon of our sins, if we wish for strength to believe, to love and obey God, then we should neglect no opportunity of receiving the Lord’s Supper; then we must never turn our backs on the feast which our Lord has prepared for us. We must neglect no occasion which the good providence of God affords us for this purpose. This is the true rule: So often are we to receive as God gives us opportunity. Whoever, therefore, does not receive, but goes from the holy table, when all things are prepared, either does not understand his duty, or does not care for the dying command of his Saviour, the forgiveness of his sins, the strengthening of his soul, and the refreshing it with the hope of glory.

Baptists and similar Protestant groups believe in what is called Memorialism–that the Eucharist is simply a symbolic act done in remembrance and obedience of Christ.

 

[PJM]

MY understanding is that Lutherans, Anglicans & Episcopalians Did or Do hold that the Real Presence is TRUE;

And each at least at one time did hold that their holy communion was Holy COMMUNION as much as the RCC does.

The TRUTH is that VAlID and Licit Holy Communion [the actual REAL PRESENCE] is confined to the RCC and VALID Holy Communion to the RCC & the Orthodox churches. One MUST HAVE provable DIRECT Apostolic Succession in order to make Jesus [GOD] Truly, Really & Substantially Present; and NONE of the Protestant churches can or Do meet this requirement.

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[JonNC]

That is the Catholic view.

 

[De_Maria]

Imtrying:

we only received instruction about church history and the trinity, a group within the church claimed the trinity was a collection of Indian nature spirits, who controlled the air, earth, and water.

That’s not "high Church Lutheran " at all. That’s not any kind of Lutheran. Such horribly poor catechesis. I’m happy you found better faith tradition

Are you telling someone that you know more about what they believe than they do?

I find it uncharitable to pretend to know more about someone else’s faith than they do.

There was a time on CAF where dialogue was based on a mutual respect and acceptance of the other person’s statements about what they believed.

I find it uncharitable to pretend to know more about someone else’s faith than they do.