The Eucharist in Lutheran and other protestant religions?

[JonNC]

JonNC:

Sure it does. That’s how the early councils worked

There were not EO bishops in the early councils.

Again. They are the same bishoprics. The very same. No change. Except for Schism. And Schism is on both east and west.

 

[exnihilo]

What I did say, and what you’ve ignored, is that this was not ever a required belief of the church catholic for salvation. It was in 1869 when your pope declared Mary to be not only a virgin after Jesus was born (a pious belief with Scriptural support), but that she was definitely assumed into heaven (a pious belief with no Scriptural support) and that she was even without sin – elevating her to a position of ‘Redemptrix’ practically equal to Christ! (an offensive belief in clear defiance of Scripture!)

The Church isn’t making up doctrine. It is dogmatically defining it. As pointed out you could claim the Church invented the doctrine of the Holy Trinity and added it to the Faith. But I know you wouldn’t say that because you too believe in the Trinity.

As for the assumption, where are the relics of the Blessed Virgin? You would no doubt agree the Church venerates Mary as the greatest saint. If there were any relics of her body we’d know about them. But we don’t.

If Mary was full of grace what does that mean? She is certainly a co redeemer if the term is properly understood. She was an instrumental cause of our salvation, again properly understood.

 

[steve-b]

JonNC:

Sure. If the EO bishops do not accept it, it isn’t ecumenical.

That’s like saying if the Mormon’s do not accept it, it is not ecumenical. Funny how there were no such thing as “EO bishops” to accept or not accept Ecumenical Councils for the first 1,000 years.

The highlighted text is an excellent point AugustTherese.

 

[AugustTherese]

The highlighted text is an excellent point AugustTherese.

Thank you, @steve-b! :hugs:

 

[Dorothy]

That is my understanding as well, PJM. It is a bishop that confers the priesthood.

That is not to say that sincere Lutheran believers do not receive graces from the Lord through their faith.

And, we need to pray for Catholics who receive casually, without much thought.

 

[PJM]

Agreed,

Thank you

Have a grace filled Christiams

Patrick

 

[JonNC]

That is my understanding as well, PJM. It is a bishop that confers the priesthood.

That is not to say that sincere Lutheran believers do not receive graces from the Lord through their faith.

And, we need to pray for Catholics who receive casually, without much thought.

This is one of those infrequent posts from Catholics that seems to reflect what the Catholic Catechism appears to say starting at 817.

 

[adgloriam]

Fr.John Hardon S.J. explains everything !!!

 

[steve-b]

AugustTherese:

That’s like saying if the Mormon’s do not accept it, it is not ecumenical. Funny how there were no such thing as “EO bishops” to accept or not accept Ecumenical Councils for the first 1,000 years.

Are Orthodox bishops not considered by Rome as valid? And their bishoprics the same as 1,000 years ago? Is the see in Antioch and Constantinople the same now as then?
They are indeed the same bishops

It’s like one who is validly baptized, they never lose their baptism. But that doesn’t mean they are guaranteed to be in good shape spiritually.

All the following are baptized individuals, The Great Heresies | Catholic Answers and they are all in heresies. What does Paul say about one in heresy or schism?

Titus 3:10
"As for a man who is factious ( αἱρετικὸν heretic ), after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned."

Also, **αἱρετικὸν**also = [disposed to form sects, sectarian, heretical, factious, schism ]
http://bibleapps.com/greek/141.htm

The Orthodox are in schism. Whether schism or heresy, Paul says those in that sin and won’t change after admonishment, are already self condemned.

 

[JonNC]

The Orthodox are in schism. Whether schism or heresy, Paul says those in that sin and won’t change after admonishment, are already self condemned.

And they say Rome is in Schism.
Whose a humble Anglican to believe?
Blessed Christmas, Steve

 

[AugustTherese]

And they say Rome is in Schism.

Whose a humble Anglican to believe?

Our Lord founded the Catholic Church, not the Orthodox Church in 1054AD. Our Lord founded a universal Church; only the Catholic Church can claim the visible mark of being universal, the Orthodox doesn’t even come close.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The Orthodox are in schism. Whether schism or heresy, Paul says those in that sin and won’t change after admonishment, are already self condemned.

And they say Rome is in Schism.
Whose a humble Anglican to believe?
Blessed Christmas, Steve

Believe the chair of Peter in Rome. The EO have been divided from that chair for 1000 yrs as also the Protestants for 500 yrs… But you know that already.

Merry Christmas.

 

[steve-b]

JonNC:

And they say Rome is in Schism.

Whose a humble Anglican to believe?

Our Lord founded the Catholic Church, not the Orthodox Church in 1054AD. Our Lord founded a universal Church; only the Catholic Church can claim the visible mark of being universal, the Orthodox doesn’t even come close.

I have asked this question for 20 yrs. 14 of those years on CA, for anyone who can give an answer.

When is the first time, in history, properly referenced, where we see in writing, the name “Orthodox Church”?

So far nothing. People give opinions, but nothing substantiated (properly referenced) as I requested.

 

[De_Maria]

“And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.”

‘Bread’ is clearly what he’s referring to.

Yes. But which bread?

John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

You believe He’s talking about the natural bread which He originally picked up. But, He transformed that bread into the Bread of God, which is His Flesh for the life of the world.

John6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

If I pick up a pen and I say “This is my gift to you.” To what would I be referring? Obviously, the pen.

Sure. But can you turn water into wine? can you walk on water? can you bring the dead back to life?

Jesus says the bread is his Body. Ok. Take him at his word. The bread is his Body. How? He does not say.

He does. He says it is the Bread of God that came down from heaven. When the Priest says the words of consecration, we believe the Bread of God, Jesus Christ, comes down from heaven and replaces the earthly bread with His Flesh which gives life to the world.

It can’t be more plainly explained in Scripture:

John 6:48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

The Eucharist is the Bread of God which comes down from heaven that a man may eat of and never die.

 

[De_Maria]

Even Roman Catholic scholars concede that it’s something that was “revealed” or “more clearly defined” in later years, not from the start of the church.

Those who don’t understand the clearly spelled out Priimacy of Peter in Scripture, contradict the Teaching of the Catholic Church and show themselves to be deficient in their understanding of Catholic Doctrine.

552 Simon Peter holds the first place in the college of the Twelve; Jesus entrusted a unique mission to him. Through a revelation from the Father, Peter had confessed: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Our Lord then declared to him: “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.” Christ, the “living Stone”, thus assures his Church, built on Peter, of victory over the powers of death. Because of the faith he confessed Peter will remain the unshakable rock of the Church. His mission will be to keep this faith from every lapse and to strengthen his brothers in it.

553 Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” The “power of the keys” designates authority to govern the house of God, which is the Church. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: “Feed my sheep.” The power to “bind and loose” connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.