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ajk19
Guest
What part of “It is finished” can’t you understand?
Yes, but not through a re-sacrifice.
Who are you to take: “It is finished” and then say it’s not.
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VociMike
Guest
Are you suggesting that God, who is the creator of all things including time, is somehow bound by that time which he created?How do you know what the nature of the ETERNAL is? I see alot of this kind of thinking that God is somehow outside time etc but no evidence of how they know this works.
Or, are you suggesting that time exists outside of God? That it somehow preceeds God? That would be a remarkable claim!
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justasking4
Guest
How do you know what the nature of “time” or whatever outside the universe?Yes, the OP’s inability to think outside the “time box” is exactly the kind of thing that Christ meant when he said “the flesh avails nothing”. The OP’s reasoning powers alone are useless to grasp the mystery and workings of eternal, omnipotent, omniscient God.
How do you know the workings of “eternal, omnipotent, omniscient God”?
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VociMike
Guest
Is Christ or is he not our High Priest even now?What part of “It is finished” can’t you understand?
You’ve been told enough times that it’s not a re-sacrifice. Are you being deliberately obtuse?Yes, but not through a re-sacrifice.
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zerocrossing
Guest
What part of it’s not a re- sacrifice can’t you understand?What part of “It is finished” can’t you understand?
Yes, but not through a re-sacrifice.
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LilyM
Guest
That’s why I said it’s a bit like that. Not a perfect analogy.Totally different, those are all taped, this is happening every day live. Big difference.
What happens in our Catholic Churches is what the prophet Malachi foretold - Malachi 1:11:
“For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same [in other words at all times] my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering [Jesus Christ, our only possible pure offering - no incense, grain, fruit or animals are pure as He is pure]”.
Couldn’t refer to the Jews - they didn’t sacrifice non-stop and in all places including Gentile lands. And it is the same offering being offered (just one singular offering) and yet in all times and places. Again, Jews didn’t offer the one singular sacrifice.
Neat summary of Catholic Eucharistic theology from the OT there.
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ajk19
Guest
I’m not denying that, but the Bible is very clear as to the death on the cross. He said it was finished, so it must be so, or are you calling Jesus a liar?Is Christ or is he not our High Priest even now?
You have failed to convince me that it is not such a thing.You’ve been told enough times that it’s not a re-sacrifice. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
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justasking4
Guest
I don’t know. You can claim you do but on what basis?VociMike;3094060]Are you suggesting that God, who is the creator of all things including time, is somehow bound by that time which he created?
I can speculate as you do but i can’t say this is fact i.e. the way things really are. It may sound reasonable but that does not make it true.Or, are you suggesting that time exists outside of God? That it somehow preceeds God? That would be a remarkable claim!
Actually you are making the remarkable claim to know something about how this works. I’m asking you how you know beyond speculation.
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ajk19
Guest
I repeat, you have not convinced me.What part of it’s not a re- sacrifice can’t you understand?
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ajk19
Guest
Isn’t incense an abomination to God?“For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same [in other words at all times] my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering [Jesus Christ, our only possible pure offering - no incense, grain, fruit or animals are pure as He is pure]”.
Isaiah 1:13
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
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VociMike
Guest
Answer my question. Is God bound by time? Does time exist outside of God?How do you know what the nature of “time” or whatever outside the universe?
How do you know the workings of “eternal, omnipotent, omniscient God”?
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VociMike
Guest
First of all, playing the “are you calling God (or the bible) a liar?” card is immature and obnoxious. I strongly suggest you get beyond that mode of argument (one which is very common among some Protestants, and totally unconvincing).I’m not denying that, but the Bible is very clear as to the death on the cross. He said it was finished, so it must be so, or are you calling Jesus a liar?
Secondly, if Christ is still our High Priest, then he must still have something to offer. What sacrifice is Christ now offering on our behalf?
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VociMike
Guest
What I know, what every Christian is supposed to know, is that God is the creator and master of all things. That obviously includes time.I don’t know. You can claim you do but on what basis?
I can speculate as you do but i can’t say this is fact i.e. the way things really are. It may sound reasonable but that does not make it true.
Actually you are making the remarkable claim to know something about how this works. I’m asking you how you know beyond speculation.
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ajk19
Guest
Hey it’s not like Catholics don’t do it too now.First of all, playing the “are you calling God (or the bible) a liar?” card is immature and obnoxious. I strongly suggest you get beyond that mode of argument (one which is very common among some Protestants, and totally unconvincing).
No sacrifice, he already has offered that. What he offers us now is His love, mercy and forgiveness. Not to mention his perfect justice if the situation calls for it.Secondly, if Christ is still our High Priest, then he must still have something to offer. What sacrifice is Christ now offering on our behalf?
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LilyM
Guest
Incense is not at all a required part of the Mass or anything, plenty of cases we don’t use it.Isn’t incense an abomination to God?
Isaiah 1:13
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
And it’s the VAIN oblations that God is against, including VAIN keeping of Sabbaths. Not ALL oblations, ALL incense and ALL Sabbaths.
Do you suggest we no longer need to keep the Sabbath Holy then? That that particular commandment which Christ explicitly commanded us to keep is in fact done away with?
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planter654
Guest
I did not read it like you did I think you understood the first time. He did not say his flesh profited nothing. So read it againBut in the quotes you provided, you’re clearly telling us that Christ’s flesh *never *profitted anything, since “the flesh profiteth nothing”
Or would you care to withdraw your erroneous interpretation of those passages?
God Bless
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ajk19
Guest
But it is at times used no? Does that not fly in the face of scripture?Incense is not at all a required part of the Mass or anything, plenty of cases we don’t use it.
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VociMike
Guest
And they’re immature and obnoxious when they do it too.Hey it’s not like Catholics don’t do it too now.
Then he’s not our High Priest any more. The High Priesthood isn’t about love, mercy and forgiveness. It’s about offering sacrifice on behalf of the people.No sacrifice, he already has offered that. What he offers us now is His love, mercy and forgiveness. Not to mention his perfect justice if the situation calls for it.
Heb 8:3 * For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer.*
Not “to have once had something to offer”. No, it says "to have something to offer. To have gifts and sacrifices to offer. Now since Christ is outside of time he does not need multiple gifts and sacrifices, but only one eternal gift and sacrifice.
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zerocrossing
Guest
Boy are you taking that one out of context! Of course incense in and of itself is not an abomination! God ordered the use of incense in the temple worship! And in the visions of God on His throne we see angels with incense! What’s an abomination is the UNWORTHY performance of temple rituals by people who worship God only with their lips.Isn’t incense an abomination to God?
Isaiah 1:13
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
You really need to stop just grabbing whatever scripture verse you think might help your cause. You need to read a lot more scripture before you try wielding it as a proof text. This example just showed, one more time, how limited a grasp you have of scripture. I know lots of Protestants who are well read in scripture and they would be embarrassed to see what you just attempted with that verse. You are not helping the Protestant position by grasping for any proof text you think you can find.
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ajk19
Guest
VociMike;3094135y:
But he ALREADY offered it, so it doesn’t need to be offered again.Then he’s not our High Priest any more. The High Priesthood isn’t about love, mercy and forgiveness. It’s about offering sacrifice on behalf of the people.
Heb 8:3 * For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary for this priest also to have* something to offer.
Not “to have once had something to offer”. No, it says "to have something to offer. To have gifts and sacrifices to offer. Now since Christ is outside of time he does not need multiple gifts and sacrifices, but only one eternal gift and sacrifice.
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