The Eucharist is NOT the body of Christ

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i would agree. However you are going much farther in your claim to know what the relationship is between God-time and how that works.
A creator can’t create something that is more powerful than Himself. I can create a car, but if I do then I drive it and have control over it. I can build a house, but if I do I own it and have control over it. I have to be separate from the house and the car to have control over them.

So if God created time then He controls it. To do so He must be separate from, outside of, it.
 
I understand what you are saying but our Church seems to change commands this is what I also keep asking them. We do not have the right to change God’s commands or what
God says is abomination and what displeases him right? I am confused.
God Bless
You should not be confused. He is wrong about the incense. According to scripture, incense is used in the temple worship and in the very presence of God.
 
I understand what you are saying but our Church seems to change commands this is what I also keep asking them. We do not have the right to change God’s commands or what
God says is abomination and what displeases him right? I am confused.
God Bless
So wait, are you agreeing with me, or disagreeing? I don’t understand.
 
I understand what you are saying but our Church seems to change commands this is what I also keep asking them. We do not have the right to change God’s commands or what
God says is abomination and what displeases him right? I am confused.
God Bless
But it’s not us who changes them! Christ Himself, on the face of it, went against that same passage which appears to call Sabbaths abominations by commanding us to continue to keep the Sabbath.

Since God never contradicts Himself, there must be a means to reconcile the command in the NT and the passage from the OT.

The key is in the context - the word ‘vain’ added to the things - VAIN incense, VAIN oblations, VAIN sabbaths. It’s when they’re used or done in vain (not in the proper spirit in which they were intended) that God abominates them, not at all times.
 
A creator can’t create something that is more powerful than Himself. I can create a car, but if I do then I drive it and have control over it. I can build a house, but if I do I own it and have control over it. I have to be separate from the house and the car to have control over them.

So if God created time then He controls it. To do so He must be separate from, outside of, it.
Compared to God, we are limited by time. It takes time for us to get to work. Depending on the distance, it will probably take up to 15 to 30 mins ride to work by car or to school or college. God on the other hand can appear suddenly by his own power. Consider how the Glorified Body of the Risen Lord appear to the Apostle. He was able to enter a room while the door are closed. He even walk through walls. He also appeared out of no where.
 
Mannyfit75;3094195]Bound by time means within the limits of this world. Consider the glorified resurrected Jesus Christ. In his glorified state, Jesus’ body was no longer bound in time. For one thing, to get from one place to another, we are required to walk, drive, fly, and take the train. Jesus himself appear suddenly. He even appeared to the Apostle while the door in the upper room was closed shut. Jesus even pass through walls.
God is outside time and space.
I think there could be other ways to explain-speculate on this. For one, Jesus’ resurrection took place in our universe i.e. space time. Something happened to His body after the resurrection that goes beyond our understanding.
I would say God is outside time. This is a supernatural ability. He can appear just by thinking about it, and he is there.
Since we know so little of the nature of the universe and reality its difficult to know how this was done. If you look at many of the miracles of Christ it appears He had the ability to manipulate matter and energy in ways we can only imagine. If anything He had complete control of nature.
 
I really am not sure right now, I’m confused…again :confused:
Take a deep breath and just read all the great replies. Open your heart and your mind. Don’t start formulating counter-points and arguments BEFORE you even read. I think that might be part of the issue you have. Your mind has already decided what you THINK is right and you have just been too stubborn to let anyone tell you otherwise. It’s OK to make mistakes, misunderstand, etc. It’s also MORE THAN OK to admit when when you are wrong or that you misunderstood. It doesn’t make you weak. In fact, like the wind blowing the willow…it only makes you stronger and that much tougher to knock down. My prayers are with you.

Peace!👍
 
I think there could be other ways to explain-speculate on this. For one, Jesus’ resurrection took place in our universe i.e. space time. Something happened to His body after the resurrection that goes beyond our understanding.
It did took place in our time and space but he was not limited to it. He overcome it and was not bound to the laws of time and space. The one thing is clear, Jesus is outside time and space.
Since we know so little of the nature of the universe and reality its difficult to know how this was done. If you look at many of the miracles of Christ it appears He had the ability to manipulate matter and energy in ways we can only imagine. If anything He had complete control of nature.
He who is was in the Beginning, and He is the Word which the World and this universe came into being, can do what he is capable of doing. Since Jesus can do this, the sacrifice of the Mass is not a re-sacrifice. It is to make present the sacrifice of the cross before us. This sacrifice is not bloody since the sacrifice of the cross in a bloody manner can be offered once and for all. This is not a re-sacrifice. Like other Catholics have said, this is to make presence the Sacrifice of Cross before us. We part take in this sacrifice and we offer this sacrifice to God, the Father.
 
Hi!
No sacrifice, he already has offered that. What he offers us now is His love, mercy and forgiveness. Not to mention his perfect justice if the situation calls for it.
  1. To offer (sacrifice) and offer (forgiveness) are two different meanings of the same word (homonyms). You are just playing around with English language. If you were to have this discussion in a different language your argument wouldn’t make any sense
  2. Above all this is ridiculous because you are claiming that He is making sacrifices to us! We are no God!
  3. How can he still be the High Priest if he has no sacrifice to offer? How could he still be a High Priest in Heaven if his sacrifice ended before he even ascended to heaven? What’s the point?
Now, what do you make out of these:

Revelation 5:6
“And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.”

Lamb standing as if slain? Slain lambs don’t stand, do they? This doesn’t makes sense, does it? Unless…

He is standing as the High Priest while being sacrificed as the lamb. And indeed Christ is the Eternal High Priest and the victim. His sacrifice didn’t end when he died on the cross but it stretches into eternity. This one and the very same sacrifice is made present during the Holy Mass.
 
Hello,
This is not a “bait and switch”, I realize now I was in error in what I stated, and am simply taking it back now.
If you were wrong on that (Resurrection), perhaps you are also wrong on this (Eucharist).
 
Hello,

ajk19, what proof do you offer, besides your say-so, that your interpretation of Scripture is correct and that of the Catholic Church’s and the Church Fathers is wrong?
 
Hello,
Yes I am not denying that, but again there is no need for it to be repeated again and again. It happened once and for all, not once and for all and then a thousand times a day the world over.
We don’t repeat it - we enter into it and make it present.

Here is from the Catechism on the sacramental nature of the Eucharist:

The sacrificial memorial of Christ and of his Body, the Church

1362 The Eucharist is the memorial of Christ’s Passover, the making present and the sacramental offering of his unique sacrifice, in the liturgy of the Church which is his Body. In all the Eucharistic Prayers we find after the words of institution a prayer called the anamnesis or memorial.

1363 In the sense of Sacred Scripture the memorial is not merely the recollection of past events but the proclamation of the mighty works wrought by God for men.(Cf. ⇒ Ex 13:3.) In the liturgical celebration of these events, they become in a certain way present and real. This is how Israel understands its liberation from Egypt: every time Passover is celebrated, the Exodus events are made present to the memory of believers so that they may conform their lives to them.

1364 In the New Testament, the memorial takes on new meaning. When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ’s Passover, and it is made present the sacrifice Christ offered once for all on the cross remains ever present.(Cf. ⇒ Heb 7:25-27.) “As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which ‘Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed’ is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out.”(LG 3; cf. ⇒ 1 Cor 5:7.)

1365 Because it is the memorial of Christ’s Passover, the Eucharist is also a sacrifice. the sacrificial character of the Eucharist is manifested in the very words of institution: “This is my body which is given for you” and “This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood.”(⇒ Lk 22:19-20.) In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he “poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”(⇒ Mt 26:28.)

1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:

[Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper “on the night when he was betrayed,” [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.(Council of Trent (1562): DS 1740; cf. ⇒ 1 Cor 11:23; ⇒ Heb 7:24, ⇒ 27.)

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different.” “In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.”(Council of Trent (1562): DS 1743; cf. ⇒ Heb 9:14, ⇒ 27.)

1368 The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the Church. the Church which is the Body of Christ participates in the offering of her Head. With him, she herself is offered whole and entire. She unites herself to his intercession with the Father for all men. In the Eucharist the sacrifice of Christ becomes also the sacrifice of the members of his Body. the lives of the faithful, their praise, sufferings, prayer, and work, are united with those of Christ and with his total offering, and so acquire a new value. Christ’s sacrifice present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of Christians to be united with his offering.

In the catacombs the Church is often represented as a woman in prayer, arms outstretched in the praying position. Like Christ who stretched out his arms on the cross, through him, with him, and in him, she offers herself and intercedes for all men.
 
ajk19

THe Bible is NOT the word of God.

Prove to me that it is.

teachccd…:confused:

Disclaimer: Those who know me know me. Work with me here.
 
Yes I am not denying that, but again there is no need for it to be repeated again and again. It happened once and for all, not once and for all and then a thousand times a day the world over.
Hey, could you please read this to understand it better?
 
As I said before, I have already explained my position on the matter, as to why I think this way.
 
Obviously, the sacrifice was not made TO us, but made FOR us.
It’s either a sacrifice and it is offered to the Father (in which case he would be offering his forgiveness to the Father? :confused:) or it’s not a sacrifice. And when I say sacrifice I really mean a sacrifice, not some figurative sense that English language added to it.

So, what is Jesus, Eternal High Priest in Heaven, sacrificing in heaven?

Or is he a High Priest in Heaven without make any sacrifices there?

What would be the point? How could he be a High Priest?
 
Hello,
As I said before, I have already explained my position on the matter, as to why I think this way.
All I have seen for your explanation is your own private interpretation (which has been shown to be flawed - even admitted by yourself in regards to the Resurrection). So why should we listen to you and give you credibility? What proof do you offer, besides your say-so, that your interpretation of Scripture is correct and that of the Catholic Church’s and the Church Fathers is wrong?
 
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