The European Union: United We Fall

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bones_IV:
Sir, I have no idea what you said. There’ s a Kentucky double negative in one of your sentences. The phrase “americans don’t think Europe hasn’t solution” is like saying “I ain’t got no gun”. Which is like saying you do have a gun. Please write better.
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One USA usage that took me time to penetrate was, “I could care less”: in the UK, we say, “I could not care less”. It’s one of those differences that makes no differences whatever to the meaning intended by the phrase as whole.​

In some languages, a double negative is more emphatic than a single one - it reinforces what is said, rather than cancelling it.

translationdirectory.com/article782.htm

lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek/2001-August/017811.html

bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/foghlam/beag_air_bheag/section16/index.shtml ##
 
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bones_IV:
Sir, I have no idea what you said. There’ s a Kentucky double negative in one of your sentences. The phrase “americans don’t think Europe hasn’t solution” is like saying “I ain’t got no gun”. Which is like saying you do have a gun. Please write better.
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I´m sorry, Bones IV, I only want to say, that I want to have hope for Europe.
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## Is that so surprising ? The CC was clericalist for centuries. Why is clericalism tolerable, and laicism not ? Maybe people are laicist because they are over-reacting to that clericalism.

I saw this in that article:

“The latest incident is the EU’s demand that Spain eliminate its sales tax exemption for the Catholic Church within 60 days.”

I can’t see the “hate” - unless refusing to give the CC a privileged position (such as it had in Spain after the 1953 Concordat) is “hate”. “What goes around, comes around” - even for the CC. The EU cannot arrange Europe according to the likings of the Vatican alone, for the very simple reason that not all Europeans are in any sense, however tenuous, Christian - let alone Catholic: why should followers of non-Christians religions, or of none, be required to follow specifically RC ethics ? That’s why the EU cannot be specifically Catholic.

Supposing the EU does “hate the Church”: why not ask “Why does it?” ? People do not usually hate for absolutely no reason whatever. Maybe it is the evil done by “the Church” - the clergy, perhaps ? - that is hated - for that evil, is a betrayal of its vocation and character. Since many of those who make the decisions in the EU are Catholics, and therefore members of the Church, the whole accusation makes little sense. Hating the clergy is not the same as hating the Church - and is not the same as checking excessive clerical power, either. All Catholics are the Church - not just those who have been through the seminary system. Calling the clergy the Church is like calling Washington the USA.

As for the sub-heading Ideology at Work - Dr. Mirus might not like what he sees (rightly or wrongly) as the ideology of the EU - but he follows an ideology himself: Catholicism is as much an ideology as any.

And no, I don’t like the EU much at all; I want a Great Britain and Northern Ireland which is free of meddling by unelected and unaccountable foreign bureaucrats (whether in the EU* or* in the CC) - it does not follow from this, that all criticisms of the EU (or of the CC) are equally valid. ##
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Respect what you have said, now in Spain, you have to know, that the 1953 concordate isn´t the law but 1979, a very different concordate.
The church receives money from the State, because the State stole in 1835 all the church properties, in the Mendizabal Confiscations. In addition, the church don´t want to receive money but receiving a more wide deduction in taxes from 0.5% to 0.8% like in Italy, but the state don´t want to make it, because the anti-clerical and anti-catholic sentiment gives votes here in Spain.
The church, human speaking, has had a lot of mistakes, and it´s a idiot thing, that I deny it, but I think that the Church is very different from other ages, and politics want to say that Church is the same, I repeat, human speaking.
Greetings
 
Who cares about the European Union ? not me, we lived without it before and we’ll live without it again.

I’m a reluctant European, afterall I’m only one vote, and don’t care a damn about the EU, I look around at this country north and south and see how Ireland has sank to a new low.

Money bribes from Brussels, morality decline, drug gangs, murder in the Republic was an uncommon thing, now it’s getting to be very common.

Materialism has swept Ireland, wev’e become a nation of money grabbers, January sales in December, Christmas advertized in Sept: :rolleyes: a dog eat dog society.

Ireland has a long history of poverty, the famine and the rest, but now were supposidly rich, oh yes rich in materialism, but poor in Christianity.

But even though the people were poor, the Churches were full, but money and so-called earthly success and the Church scandals have played their part in that.

Maybe it will take poverty to shake us up again, my children never knew what it was to go hungry, but I sure do, and I thank God for the blessings poverty taught me.
What use is it to be materialistically rich and be spiritually poor ?

Oh yes the Celtic Tiger is still alive and well in Ireland, Matthew 16:26
For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

Now the EU is trying to ram abortion down our throats, another story don’t get me started. 😦

Although this post would seem like I’m against people living better, well it isn’t, it’s just when materialism takes first place and God takes a back seat, that’s all I’m saying, and I live here and witness it first hand, north and south.

I don’t know what it’s like in the rest of Europe, but thats how I see things here.

1 Timothy 6:10
** For the desire of money is the root of all evils; which some coveting have erred from the faith, and have entangled themselves in many sorrows.**

Thanks for letting me vent.
 
I don’t know if this has been noted here previously, but the current issue of “First Things” magazine has an article authored by Pope Benedict XVI entitled “Europe and its Discontents” which I would commend to everyone interested in a concise yet thorough review of European socio-political history and current status. Europe is in the midst of an orgy of self-loathing despite its material fortunes. This is an inevitable consequence of that region’s surrender of its spiritual legacy and identity to secularism and materialism. The voices are faint as yet, but more and more Europeans are coming to see the emptiness of their communal culture for what it is. They are at present living a lie. Although they seem to have seen Communist economic theory for the fraud that it was, they are still enthralled by its atheism. It’s just a matter of time before that second limb of Communist thought is also seen as a false hoax. We can only pray that such wisdom renews in Europe sooner than later. There is no hope for the region’s future until it does.
 
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Eireann:
Who cares about the European Union ? not me, we lived without it before and we’ll live without it again.

I’m a reluctant European, afterall I’m only one vote, and don’t care a damn about the EU, I look around at this country north and south and see how Ireland has sank to a new low.

Money bribes from Brussels, morality decline, drug gangs, murder in the Republic was an uncommon thing, now it’s getting to be very common.

Materialism has swept Ireland, wev’e become a nation of money grabbers, January sales in December, Christmas advertized in Sept: :rolleyes: a dog eat dog society.

Ireland has a long history of poverty, the famine and the rest, but now were supposidly rich, oh yes rich in materialism, but poor in Christianity.

But even though the people were poor, the Churches were full, but money and so-called earthly success and the Church scandals have played their part in that.

Maybe it will take poverty to shake us up again, my children never knew what it was to go hungry, but I sure do, and I thank God for the blessings poverty taught me.
What use is it to be materialistically rich and be spiritually poor ?

Oh yes the Celtic Tiger is still alive and well in Ireland, Matthew 16:26
For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

Now the EU is trying to ram abortion down our throats, another story don’t get me started. 😦

Although this post would seem like I’m against people living better, well it isn’t, it’s just when materialism takes first place and God takes a back seat, that’s all I’m saying, and I live here and witness it first hand, north and south.

I don’t know what it’s like in the rest of Europe, but thats how I see things here.

1 Timothy 6:10
** For the desire of money is the root of all evils; which some coveting have erred from the faith, and have entangled themselves in many sorrows.**

Thanks for letting me vent.
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Eireann, I would like to know more, why it seems, from outside, that Ireland is losing their catholic soul. Why?
 
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Franze:
Eireann, I would like to know more, why it seems, from outside, that Ireland is losing their catholic soul. Why?
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It’s simple Franze like in the Gospel passages, money can corrupt you, if you let it.

It isn’t losing it’s Catholic soul, but there sure is a big dent in it.

Actually I thought that Catholic Spain don’t listen to Rome anymore, not to generalize about Ireland or Spain, but that’s the perception, and probably like so many other European countries and beyond Europe, no country is squeaky clean.

Put down that stone !!!
 
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Franze:
Eireann, I would like to know more, why it seems, from outside, that Ireland is losing their catholic soul. Why?
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Ireland didn’t find a new way to do it. It’s simply following the set of instructions written in the early 20th century in other EU countries. One might say, Ireland has learned from France! Ireland is succumbing to the same false gods the rest of Europe now worships. There’s nothing unique about Ireland in this respect except that it proved more resistant as an effect of a thousand years of British tyranny and economic exploitation.

Eire once saved Europe from total barbarism. God willing, it will play a role in doing so again.
 
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Eireann:
It’s simple Franze like in the Gospel passages, money can corrupt you, if you let it.

It isn’t losing it’s Catholic soul, but there sure is a big dent in it.

Actually I thought that Catholic Spain don’t listen to Rome anymore, not to generalize about Ireland or Spain, but that’s the perception, and probably like so many other European countries and beyond Europe, no country is squeaky clean.

Put down that stone !!!
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My country is very depressing, there are many anti-clericalism, the hate to the church is very deep since XIX century, and although some is explained by the Franco´s dictatorship, it was from many decades ago.
We have now, 85 thousand abortions, homosexual marriages, 300 in 6 months, it was a defeatist law, but they want to make homosexual proselitism in schools and like the political parties don´t want to be “homophobic”, they allow it.
We have now, the express divorce, not in 2 years of separation but 6 months and more difficulties to reconcilie.
We are very rich, but we have the lowest birth rate of the world, and we have to import immigrants, we have now many southamerican that are making that islamic immigrants aren´t the majority.
My country Spain, is in a deep moral crisis, but I want to be optimistic, I need to be it, but I see very bad things.
Greetings, some day I would like to go to Ireland. I love the celtic music.
 
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Franze:
Greetings, some day I would like to go to Ireland. I love the celtic music.
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Yes Franze very depressing, but people sometimes have to goto the gutter before they turn back from their stupidity, it reminds me of the people wandering in the desert in the time of Moses.

*About the house thing, maybe we’ll do a house swap for a few weeks, I could do with some Spanish sunshine. 🙂 *

Although most of this is very annoying, one thing it makes me realize is we aren’t in charge, I never give up hope, God will see us through, “the darkest hour is just before the dawn.”
 
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Franze:
We are very rich, but we have the lowest birth rate of the world, and we have to import immigrants, we have now many southamerican that are making that islamic immigrants aren´t the majority.
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Yes materialisticially rich, but spiritually bankrupt, not to worry there are plenty of lights shining in the darkness over here still, and some day that flicker will turn into a flame.

Anyway we can’t take it with us, no pockets in a shroud.
 
Matt25, don´t you see Euronews and how they treat the Catholic Church, the abortion and other things? they are laicists and they hate the church, it´s a fact.
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In fact, abortion in Ireland is effectively illegal, so the faith is not completely worthless.

I have confidence that the EU shall become stronger and acheive it’s full potential over time.

Eireann, I also happen to think that the faith in Ireland may make a bit of a come back some time. I believe that Cardinal O’Connell and his persistent squabbling with protestants probably did not help, however I heard that the new Archbishop (Dublin) (relitavely new) is supposed to be a “rising star” any truth behind this?
 
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Libero:
In fact, abortion in Ireland is effectively illegal, so the faith is not completely worthless.
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It is only a matter of time before the EU tries to make Ireland legalize it. I pray Ireland has the strength to tell the EU to mind their own business.
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Libero:
I have confidence that the EU shall become stronger and acheive it’s full potential over time.
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I think the EU is headed for disaster- and have thought so since it first started. Europe has hundreds of years of disagreements in its history- World War II has proven that those disagreements aren’t only family disputes between royalty. They cannot set aside all those differences and work together for long. About 100 years ago, Europe thought they had transcended the concept of war- from 1914 to 1918, the most deadly war in the history of the world- World War I- was fought in Europe- that record was beat, by World War II (1939-1945) only about a quarter century later.
 
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Libero:
In fact, abortion in Ireland is effectively illegal, so the faith is not completely worthless.

I have confidence that the EU shall become stronger and acheive it’s full potential over time.

Eireann, I also happen to think that the faith in Ireland may make a bit of a come back some time. I believe that Cardinal O’Connell and his persistent squabbling with protestants probably did not help, however I heard that the new Archbishop (Dublin) (relitavely new) is supposed to be a “rising star” any truth behind this?
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Yes it’s illegal, but girls still travel to England to have it done. 😦

Haven’t heard of the new Archbishop of Dublin, thanks for reminding me, I must look it up.
 
Haven’t heard of the new Archbishop of Dublin, thanks for reminding me, I must look it up.
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Well, I say new, I mean the one who is “acting Archbishop” since Cardinal O’Connel was made Cardinal Emeritus - is it Diarmud or something?
 
I think the EU is headed for disaster- and have thought so since it first started. Europe has hundreds of years of disagreements in its history- World War II has proven that those disagreements aren’t only family disputes between royalty. They cannot set aside all those differences and work together for long. About 100 years ago, Europe thought they had transcended the concept of war- from 1914 to 1918, the most deadly war in the history of the world- World War I- was fought in Europe- that record was beat, by World War II (1939-1945) only about a quarter century later.
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That was different though, these wars were in times of imperialistic monarchies, and WWII was solely due to a mad man bent on wreaking havoc and having world control. Whilst some may argue that partcipating countries can never put aside their past, I believe they can, just look at Germany and Britain, they were bitter enemies, and now, they actually get along quite nicely (except at football matches - but that is totally different 😦 ) Also, Tony Blair, during his presidenvy of the EU did mangae to tell Europe that his allegiance lies with them, and our future. Wether or not that will change if the parties change, is for time to tell.
 
I think the monarchies were unjustly removed from power. Democracy failed.
 
The monarchy still has some power - although limited - what I think is a real shame is the fact that should the monarchs actually try to exercise their power in the form of denying use of armed forces or refusing to pass a law etc. then they shall probably have all of their power removed by parliament 😦

Having said this, I do not resent the country having gained democracy, and I do not regret the fact that Britain is no longer under complete command of the country. The queen makes a good chief of state.
 
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