The Expectation of the Messiah

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In general, there is a disagreement between the rabbis, Maimonides and Nachmanides about the purpose of sacrifices and which ones will be restored.

Like everyone else, I’ll just patiently wait and see when it happens.

As to sin no longer existing, see Deuteronomy 30:6
*And the L-RD thy G-d will circumcise thy heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the L-RD thy G-d with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. *
Nachmanides wrote that the circumcizing of the heart would be the removal of the will to even sin.

Again, like everyone else, I’ll just patiently wait and see when it happens.
 
YKohen said:
In general, there is a disagreement between the rabbis, Maimonides and Nachmanides about the purpose of sacrifices and which ones will be restored.

Like everyone else, I’ll just patiently wait and see when it happens.

As to sin no longer existing, see Deuteronomy 30:6
*And the L-RD thy G-d will circumcise thy heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the L-RD thy G-d with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. *
Nachmanides wrote that the circumcizing of the heart would be the removal of the will to even sin.

Again, like everyone else, I’ll just patiently wait and see when it happens.
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Yes, the views of the Rambam vs. those of the Ramban! Meltzerboy kind of pales by comparison to these two giants. I think the verse from Deuteronomy you mention is sometimes used by Christian apologists to point to the lack of need for the ritual of circumcision since the advent of Jesus because one’s heart is now circumcised.
 
meltzerboy said:
Yes, the views of the Rambam vs. those of the Ramban! Meltzerboy kind of pales by comparison to these two giants.
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Oh c’mon now. You have potential.
I think the verse from Deuteronomy you mention is sometimes used by Christian apologists to point to the lack of need for the ritual of circumcision since the advent of Jesus because one’s heart is now circumcised.
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Were that the case, then the next part of the verse would be the case everywhere: “love the L-RD thy G-d with all thy heart, and with all thy soul”.
 
There is a movement beginning in the Church, whose writings are still being reviewed. Last I heard we were not allowed to apply ourselves to them.

But it is essentially denying ourselves when we start the day and asking the Lord to only do His will in us.

And the greater vision of this is that day by day, through God’s work, we grow more in conformity to His will, we sacrificing ourselves to Him, that more and more, in His time, His graces of transforming and restoring work through us to restore the world around us, to the apocalyptic end that in this next millenium, mankind will come to the point where Adam and Eve were before the fall.

But it is based on we sacrificing ourselves so that Christ Himself is living through us, thinking, speaking working, praising, creating through us.

Again, this is still under investigation by the Vatican, but a priest has already been canonized who approved of the writings. I don’t want to say who because I am still divided on it. But it implies less and less sin will be on earth in the future.

And I look at the world today and think of Christ’s words, that you cannot pour fresh wine into an old sack to the lightning that hit St. Peter’s two times hours after Pope Benedict announced his resignation…for me an omen that darkness would come to its height…but then be defeated.

So I think first we need to pass through tremendous tribulation, both for the Church and all mankind. But in the end, the forces of evil and darkness that have been afflicting the world for thousands of years will finally be defeated.

And Hebrew Catholics believe some day the Jews will be of great help to the Gentile believers.

I remember listening to a rabbi on tv…and he is speaking of these times…and he thinks it will be more like the Christians saying, ‘See we were right’, and the Jews saying, ‘See, we were right.’

Mary conceived without sin, pray for us!
 
Can’t wait for him!

I will drink a glas of wine with King David! :heaven:

Of course, world peace comes first, but writing psalms with David is a close second 🙂
 
Mortal sin against God is totally worse than any nuclear bomb or plague or anything else a human being can do or experience.
 
Do modern mainstream Jews believe the prophet whom Moses spoke of in Deuteronomy 18:15 is also the Messiah?
 
YKohen said:
It is just talking about a prophet in general.
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I’m not sure I’ve understood you correctly. Do you mean no prophet in particular?

I don’t see how this could be a general term when Moses is referring to “a prophet”.

If it’s a general term do the Jews then use this as a criterion to ascertain authentic prophets i.e. each prophet must have ‘a Moses likenesses’?
 
Augustine3 said:
I’m not sure I’ve understood you correctly. Do you mean no prophet in particular?
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Yes. Prophets in general.
I don’t see how this could be a general term when Moses is referring to “a prophet”.
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A prophet means a prophet. The Hebrew word used in the verse is “נביא”: Navi, which is general. Had the Torah intended to relate it to a specific prophet, the word used would have been “הנביא”; HaNavi- THE prophet. This latter way is the way it is written in verse 20.

Also, read the verse in context, including verses before and afterwards and it is clear that this is the meaning.
If it’s a general term do the Jews then use this as a criterion to ascertain authentic prophets i.e. each prophet must have ‘a Moses likenesses’?
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We believe that there are no prophets on Moses’ level, but that doesn’t make them fake. Moses had a special relationship with G-d that cannot be replicated (see Exodus 33:11).

The criteria that we use to ascertain authenticity or lack thereof is found in Deuteronomy 18, verses 18-22.
 
meltzerboy said:
According to the Book of Zephaniah, there will be no sin during the Messianic Age. The offerings in the Temple will be in the form of celebration and thanksgiving rather than expiation or atonement. So yes, the High Holy Day of Yom Kippur will cease to be practiced at that time, or perhaps will take on a different meaning, since personal sin (Jews do not believe in original sin) will have been eradicated. This does not diminish, however, the practice of the Law, which is regarded by Jews as an eternal Covenant.
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Meltzerboy,

With the coming of the temple, the Ark will come back as well…reappear?
 
YKohen said:
It is just talking about a prophet in general.
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I’m just trying to make sense of the passage below from the New Testament:

So they asked him, “What are you then? Are you Elijah?” And he said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.” So they said to him, “Who are you, so we can give an answer to those who sent us? What do you have to say for yourself?” He said: “I am ‘the voice of one crying out in the desert, “Make straight the way of the Lord,”’ 17 as Isaiah the prophet said.” Some Pharisees were also sent. They asked him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah or Elijah or the Prophet?”

From a Jewish perspective who is ‘the prophet’ mentioned here?
 
Augustine3 said:
I’m just trying to make sense of the passage below from the New Testament:

So they asked him, “What are you then? Are you Elijah?” And he said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.” So they said to him, “Who are you, so we can give an answer to those who sent us? What do you have to say for yourself?” He said: “I am ‘the voice of one crying out in the desert, “Make straight the way of the Lord,”’ 17 as Isaiah the prophet said.” Some Pharisees were also sent. They asked him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah or Elijah or the Prophet?”

From a Jewish perspective who is ‘the prophet’ mentioned here?
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Sorry. Can’t help you here. I’m not familiar with the New Testament.
 
YKohen said:
We believe that they will be rebuilt. In fact, see this:

templeinstitute.org/

templeinstitute.org/vessels_gallery.htm
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Hey YKohen. Just had a few questions. In Jeremiah 22:24-30 the LORD pronounces a curse on Jeconiah and his descendants, declaring them ineligible to sit upon the throne of David as the king of Israel:
“As I live, saith the LORD, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence; (25) And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans. (26) And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bare thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die. (27) But to the land whereunto they desire to return, thither shall they not return. (28) Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? (29) O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. (30) Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.”
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Verse 28 states - “wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed.” This illustrates that the LORD acknowledged the fact that Jeconiah would have descendants, which he did. Verse 29 - God made a triple declaration to the world as follows, “O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.” Verse 30 - these words provide the greatest significance that no man of Jeconiah’s seed shall prosper, “sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.” This passage tells us that, although Jeconiah would have descendants, God declared the entire line ineligible to sit upon the throne of David.

How then will this take place in the future, if in fact Jesus (born of a virgin) is not who He claims to be? If I am reading scripture correctly, Zedekiah and His sons are cut off as well:
“But the army of the Chaldeans pursued after the king, and overtook Zedekiah in the plains of Jericho; and all his army was scattered from him. (9) Then they took the king, and carried him up unto the king of Babylon to Riblah in the land of Hamath; where he gave judgment upon him. (10) And the king of Babylon slew the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes: he slew also all the princes of Judah in Riblah.”
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As per Jeremiah 52:8-10, all of Zedekiah’s sons were killed at Riblah. Therefore, Zedekiah’s genealogical line was completely terminated since he had no surviving heirs to the throne. It appears that God adversely affected the Davidic genealogical line. If that is the case then who would qualify as the long-awaited Messiah descending from the royal line of David? Do the Hebrew Scriptures provide the name of such an individual now that we can rule out the line of Zedikiah and Jeconiah and his descendants? Perhaps I have overlooked something. :confused:
 
The Ark is hidden somewhere and when the Temple will get rebuilt we will have the Ark back also. Maybe it’s better that the Ark will be lost until the Messiah comes. I believe they took it out back in the day in order to safe it.
 
i think From what I’ve read the Jews expect the Messiah to be a political and military leader who will free the Jews and inaugurate sovereignty over the rest of the nations. It just seems to me even if the Messiah does conqueror by political and military might won’t the Jews stuff it up once again as they did many times over by their “turning away from God”?
 
joe370 said:
Hey YKohen. Just had a few questions. In Jeremiah 22:24-30 the LORD pronounces a curse on Jeconiah and his descendants, declaring them ineligible to sit upon the throne of David as the king of Israel:

Verse 28 states - “wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed.” This illustrates that the LORD acknowledged the fact that Jeconiah would have descendants, which he did. Verse 29 - God made a triple declaration to the world as follows, “O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.” Verse 30 - these words provide the greatest significance that no man of Jeconiah’s seed shall prosper, “sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.” This passage tells us that, although Jeconiah would have descendants, God declared the entire line ineligible to sit upon the throne of David.

True: Jaconia and his seed were out.
How then will this take place in the future, if in fact Jesus (born of a virgin) is not
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