The "f" word, let's analyse!

[whatevergirl]

*Here’s a random thought…and I think this sometimes with single female friends of mine. I think when you’re burned a few times, you get a little jaded. Ok, that makes perfect sense. But…be honest with yourself. If you are truly sensing that before every date…you’re analyzing what that person might do wrong…or guarding yourself so you don’t get hurt…you shouldn’t be dating. You need time to heal. And women can sense a bitter guy, just like a guy can sense a bitter, jaded woman from afar. And desperation is NEVER attractive. Ever.

If a woman tells you…I want to just be friends, I don’t really think of you ‘that way,’ believe her. Unless you’ve been friends first for a while, I’d stop seeing her. The world is filled with great people who are Catholic, just waiting to meet their right fit. By spending time with girls who want to have as many guys buying them dinners as humanly possible…you will miss your true honey. *

 

[Kimothy80]

Hope you don’t take offense, but there are ways to show that you’re available that aren’t immodest or immoral. I’m sure there are plenty of guys that revert to that mode with you simply because you put up some kind of subconscious wall up and guys pick up on it and assume that what you mean is that you’re not interested so now THEY’RE not interested. Seen it with plenty of girls that are attractive but never approached, not because they’re intimidating or anything, but because guys assume, based on a public projection, that she has a boyfriend or is simply not interested.

I don’t really know how to address that since I’m a guy, but suffice it to say that if you’re looking to get a glance or two, then make that known! Take small steps of initiative (whatever they may be) and see if you get approached. Most guys aren’t interested in the girls that make huge productions out of themselves or are ridiculously flirtatious (unless it’s college and they’re looking for a one night stand, not a girlfriend) but they won’t approach a girl who seems like she’s taken herself entirely out of the marketplace. You know what I mean? I hope so, because I think I lost myself a few sentences into this.

I’m not offended but I’m not sure if you understand where I’m coming from. I’m NOT a flirt. If anything, I can’t flirt to save my life and if I do flirt I won’t even realize it until WAY after and then I’m all . Like I mentioned in a previous thread, I recently joined a YA Catholic group in my diocese and I have met a few guys that seem friendly that I can easily talk to. I’m just ridiculously slow when it comes to picking up the signals if a guy likes me or not. Also, I have health issues and that isn’t exactly much of a turn on and it causes them to keep me at bay…but nothing more.

I’m not sure if I know what you mean. What’d you say again?

 

[whatevergirl]

Oh and since it’s not really courtship anymore and whatevergirl doesn’t like it being called a "game’ then I’ll just use the most apt metaphor. It’s a fencing match where the hopeful result is to eventually get hit but one must parry well enough to demonstrate that the foe is worthy of striking you with his/her foil… of love.

Or something like that.

Chev…are you writing all this down? We need some levity here.*

 

[whatevergirl]

Well there you go then. If your problem isn’t getting sucked into the friends zone but that you’re not meeting the right women… go meet better women.

Not every girl in the singles group at church are weirdos, though plenty are. So I like whatevergirl’s play better. Just go to Mass frequently and look for single girls your age that tend to go to Mass a lot. Then just walk up to them and use whatever cold approach you use that works with the rest of the world. I’m sure you’ll end up with better results because you’ll start with a superior quality woman.

*Ding ding! Yep! This…

If I were a single man…this is what I’d do…*

 

[The_Bucket]

Guys are easy. If they’re talking to you, they’d probably be interested in more than just friendship unless they seem to be talking to you out of pity or something. Even the most courteous gentleman generally doesn’t hang out with a girl frequently or talk to her a lot unless he’d be A-OK with dating her. That’s just how we are.

And yes, I’m serious. I know that sounds shallow, but it’s generally a good rule to follow. I had a decent number of friends that were girls in high school and college. I would have dated a fair number of them and those that I wouldn’t have dated knew that up front because we’d clash on morals, politics, etc.

 

[whatevergirl]

*One more thing…It’s not about pulling out a bag of tricks…or solving a riddle…or puzzle, when it comes to dating women. Chev, I have noticed you mention that you have had no problem getting phone numbers, saying something charming to get a date, etc…but, what I’d say to that, is maybe instead of focusing on a set of things that should get you ‘‘this,’’ or ‘‘that,’’ just be you. You want to find a woman who falls in love with YOU. Not what might work for this or that guy…but you. If you are falling on the sword a lot, then take a step back and evaulate, who you are interested in. Is there a common denominator? Are you merely attracted, and there isn’t much else there, and thus your hopes are dashed? Be honest with yourself…because at the end of the day, dating isn’t a hard thing. It’s not that complex. It can be frustrating, but part of the frustration I’m sensing is coming from doing the same things over and over, and expecting something different to happen. Part of that is just setting your sights on the wrong types of women…women who like to use men, and that’s about it. You will continue to get hurt if that’s the type you end up being attracted to…like bad boys, they too are quite charming and there is a sense of edginess to them that many men find appealing. *

 

[PatriceA]

*One more thing…It’s not about pulling out a bag of tricks…or solving a riddle…or puzzle, when it comes to dating women. Chev, I have noticed you mention that you have had no problem getting phone numbers, saying something charming to get a date, etc…but, what I’d say to that, is maybe instead of focusing on a set of things that should get you ‘‘this,’’ or ‘‘that,’’ just be you. You want to find a woman who falls in love with YOU. Not what might work for this or that guy…but you. If you are falling on the sword a lot, then take a step back and evaulate, who you are interested in. Is there a common denominator? Are you merely attracted, and there isn’t much else there, and thus your hopes are dashed? Be honest with yourself…because at the end of the day, dating isn’t a hard thing. It’s not that complex. It can be frustrating, but part of the frustration I’m sensing is coming from doing the same things over and over, and expecting something different to happen. Part of that is just setting your sights on the wrong types of women…women who like to use men, and that’s about it. You will continue to get hurt if that’s the type you end up being attracted to…like bad boys, they too are quite charming and there is a sense of edginess to them that many men find appealing. *

THIS!

The day I stopped following all the “rules” and following a “list” or playing a “game” and set it all in God’s hands, I met my husband soon after. And he didn’t play any “game” either. The first date lasted 12 hours because we were not trying to put on any “game” face and were just ourselves.

Of course you don’t tell your whole life story on the first date, you have to establish trust in the relationship. But you can’t establish trust if you’re trying to play a “game” either.

 

[The_Bucket]

I’m going to stop using the word game from now on because it has the wrong connotation in this forum. I don’t mean playing games in the sense you see out in the drama-filled world of Maury Povich or Jerry Springer or even Jersey Shore. I more mean figuring out the dance of courtship, the fencing match of love, the [insert whatever your favorite metaphor is here] and embracing it.

Of course be yourself. Of course don’t be deceptive or lie. Heck, even most pickup artists who have questionable morality since they are fine with sleeping around, frown upon deception and lying. That’s the “dark side” as it were. Just find the best way to put your best foot forward, don’t tell your life’s story and don’t make it too complicated at first. That’s really my point

 

[chevalier]

Oh and since it’s not really courtship anymore and whatevergirl doesn’t like it being called a "game’ then I’ll just use the most apt metaphor. It’s a fencing match where the hopeful result is to eventually get hit but one must parry well enough to demonstrate that the foe is worthy of striking you with his/her foil… of love.

Or something like that.

Foils are for girls.

 

[The_Bucket]

Épée or saber your fancy then?

 

[chevalier]

*Here’s a random thought…and I think this sometimes with single female friends of mine. I think when you’re burned a few times, you get a little jaded. Ok, that makes perfect sense. But…be honest with yourself. If you are truly sensing that before every date…you’re analyzing what that person might do wrong…or guarding yourself so you don’t get hurt…you shouldn’t be dating. You need time to heal. And women can sense a bitter guy, just like a guy can sense a bitter, jaded woman from afar. And desperation is NEVER attractive. Ever. *

I don’t guard myself. I take flak with a chest put forward and I drink napalm with my breakfast.

If a woman tells you…I want to just be friends, I don’t really think of you ‘that way,’ believe her. Unless you’ve been friends first for a while, I’d stop seeing her. The world is filled with great people who are Catholic, just waiting to meet their right fit. By spending time with girls who want to have as many guys buying them dinners as humanly possible…you will miss your true honey.

I don’t believe any woman delivering the “f” word after or especially before flirting with a man. But the problem lies not there but before, anyway. The problem is *before *she says she isn’t interested that way (I like you, I love hanging out with you, you’re a great guy… …FRIEND!!!). All of my spectacular picks have ended this way, incidentally. This is kinda puzzling.

Anyway, I’m taking the problem from an academic point of view right now in this thread. I just want to figure it out… Because figuring things out is the spice of life.

Incidentally, as far as game goes, I’m brushing up for an offensive right now. I’m gonna thin out the opposition somewhat.

 

[whatevergirl]

[SIGN]Look out world, chev’s coming! [/SIGN]

*Okay…Okay…question…

Do practicing Catholic girls play these games, chev? Like have you met someone in a Catholic community type setting, and she ended up flirting, leading you on…and then friending you? Or are these events predominantly happening with the secular world? Not saying Catholics don’t have issues…we all have issues, we are all sinners. But, the likliehood of an attractive, well adjusted God fearing woman jerking you around, to ME, is slimmer than if you don’t set your sights on Catholic girls.

So…thought I’d ask the question.*

 

[chevalier]

[sign]Look out world, chev’s coming! [/sign]

I’ve been good in my role as comparison data, so this is what I’m going to be doing for a while. I’ll just be there, being handsome, eloquent and charming and putting a dent in the opposition’s success rates. Any girl that recalls me and says no to a jerk, drops a lousy boyfriend or prospect or improves her standards will be a small victory, as will be any younger man who follows lead or older one that becomes reassured. Let’s start with a hair stylist, followed by a professional photo session (already scheduled) (need some ammo for an online assault too). When done earning some new postnominals, I’ll have the time to refresh my French and that’ll come handy with a short voice training. I’m gonna make them bleed.

Okay…Okay…question…

*Do practicing Catholic girls play these games, chev? Like have you met someone in a Catholic community type setting, and she ended up flirting, leading you on…and then friending you? Or are these events predominantly happening with the secular world? Not saying Catholics don’t have issues…we all have issues, we are all sinners. But, the likliehood of an attractive, well adjusted God fearing woman jerking you around, to ME, is slimmer than if you don’t set your sights on Catholic girls. *

So…thought I’d ask the question.

Never had much opportunity to check if they do. It’s not like they wear ID badges. At least two of mes cheres femmes fatales have been at least somewhat practicing Catholics (with too little data to tell in some other cases) and there was a very involved Protestant once (but that was a different story).

 

[whatevergirl]

*Why is there ‘‘too little data’’ though? (and know I’m trying to put you on the spot, just merely asking) You just ask…do you follow a particular faith? Yes, I’m Catholic. Do you practice your faith? No, I don’t really believe half of what the Church teaches (might be cause to skip over) or Yes, I love the faith, and want my kids to be raised Catholic. (this would be one to pursue)

I am not saying to skip over lukewarm Catholics. I’m not saying to skip over Protestants, actually, I have friends who practice their Protestant faith more than some of my Catholic friends, interestingly. But, what I am saying is…if having a Catholic wife and raising Catholic kids is of paramount importance, you need to change who you are targeting as prospects. This sounds so cold, doesn’t it?

I will say that if you don’t ask, you won’t know…and then you’ll have to wait for the conversations to unravel, to find out how devout someone is, which could be the case in many situations, too. I do think it’s easy to ask…’‘are you Catholic?’’ No or yes. If yes…then, go from there. If no…then find out more…but it shouldn’t be hard to get a strong sense of someone’s faith life. Don’t let looks guide you, only. (many men fall into the web of distraction of a woman’s looks…muuuaaahhhhaaa!!!) Yes, attraction is important…but it’s not enough, clearly. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.*

 

[chevalier]

*Why is there ‘‘too little data’’ though? (and know I’m trying to put you on the spot, just merely asking) *

**
Too little data to tell much about the status of my could-have beens. Waitasec, make that two practicing Protestants.

Yes, I love the faith, and want my kids to be raised Catholic. (this would be one to pursue)

**
I’d probably die of heart attack upon hearing that, as far as surprise factor goes.

This sounds so cold, doesn’t it?

**
I can be pretty cold if need be.

(many men fall into the web of distraction of a woman’s looks…muuuaaahhhhaaa!!!) Yes, attraction is important…but it’s not enough, clearly. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Yeah! I never would be friended!

 

[ack]

*Why is there ‘‘too little data’’ though? (and know I’m trying to put you on the spot, just merely asking) You just ask…do you follow a particular faith? Yes, I’m Catholic. Do you practice your faith? No, I don’t really believe half of what the Church teaches (might be cause to skip over) or Yes, I love the faith, and want my kids to be raised Catholic. (this would be one to pursue)

I am not saying to skip over lukewarm Catholics. I’m not saying to skip over Protestants, actually, I have friends who practice their Protestant faith more than some of my Catholic friends, interestingly. But, what I am saying is…if having a Catholic wife and raising Catholic kids is of paramount importance, you need to change who you are targeting as prospects. This sounds so cold, doesn’t it?

I will say that if you don’t ask, you won’t know…and then you’ll have to wait for the conversations to unravel, to find out how devout someone is, which could be the case in many situations, too. I do think it’s easy to ask…’‘are you Catholic?’’ No or yes. If yes…then, go from there. If no…then find out more…but it shouldn’t be hard to get a strong sense of someone’s faith life. Don’t let looks guide you, only. (many men fall into the web of distraction of a woman’s looks…muuuaaahhhhaaa!!!) Yes, attraction is important…but it’s not enough, clearly. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.*

I’d like to point out that, in our segment of American society, the line between being a “serious, practicing Catholic” and a “lapsed Catholic” is relatively clear-cut, and it’s easy to discern the religious mindset of people you know. However, in other countries I’ve visited (countries which are historically known for being “Catholic”), things are much more murky. For example, you’ll meet people who love and defend the church, yet they never attend Mass because they see no need to do so. It’s a little harder to define who’s a “practicing Catholic girl” and who isn’t.

Although I haven’t been to Poland yet (hopefully going in a few months), it seems likely that this is why chevalier’s situation “does not compute” in our minds. (If he was American, I would find the whole thing to be puzzling too.)

 

[chevalier]

I’d like to point out that, in our segment of American society, the line between being a “serious, practicing Catholic” and a “lapsed Catholic” is relatively clear-cut, and it’s easy to discern the religious mindset of people you know. However, in other countries I’ve visited (countries which are historically known for being “Catholic”), things are much more murky. For example, you’ll meet people who love and defend the church, yet they never attend Mass because they see no need to do so. It’s a little harder to define who’s a “practicing Catholic girl” and who isn’t.

I was gonna post that and it’s so darn true.

Although I haven’t been to Poland yet (hopefully going in a few months), it seems likely that this is why chevalier’s situation “does not compute” in our minds. (If he was American, I would find the whole thing to be puzzling too.)

What brings you here?

 

[ack]

What brings you here?

Central/Eastern European tourism, essentially.

My plans are still vague, but I’ll PM you for travel advice when the time comes…

 

[chevalier]

Central/Eastern European tourism, essentially.

My plans are still vague, but I’ll PM you for travel advice when the time comes…

Please do.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’d like to point out that, in our segment of American society, the line between being a “serious, practicing Catholic” and a “lapsed Catholic” is relatively clear-cut, and it’s easy to discern the religious mindset of people you know. However, in other countries I’ve visited (countries which are historically known for being “Catholic”), things are much more murky. For example, you’ll meet people who love and defend the church, yet they never attend Mass because they see no need to do so. It’s a little harder to define who’s a “practicing Catholic girl” and who isn’t.

Although I haven’t been to Poland yet (hopefully going in a few months), it seems likely that this is why chevalier’s situation “does not compute” in our minds. (If he was American, I would find the whole thing to be puzzling too.)

*But…still…why not just ask? Do you attend mass every week? If someone answers, yes, I’m a practicing Catholic, discussing the faith should be fun, not something they feel offended being asked about. I don’t think a 20 question pop quiz on the first date needs to take place, but there’s nothing wrong with…oh, really? So do you attend mass regularly? Or…want to attend mass together next week? If you don’t know whom you’re dating, that is because you didn’t ask enough questions. If someone says, yes, I’m a Catholic, but no I don’t really go to mass or confession, etc…not saying you run for the hills, but that at least helps you to better see where they’re coming from. Early on though, if I were still single, I’d make sure the guy’s morals and mine were interchangeable. To compromise that, is not wise. No guy could ever be so goodlooking and charming, to wish to put my faith as an afterthought in the conversation. (I’m speaking when discerning marriage, not just going to grab a coffee or something…I’m saying if you are thinking of progressing the relationship, it’s highly important to know the person’s moral and faith background) Just my two cents. *