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truetofaith
Guest
This is a foolish discussion…Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity!!!
Whether He knew something or not as a Man doesn’t make Him any less as God!
Cut the B.S. & have a Happy New Year!
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Whether He knew something or not as a Man doesn’t make Him any less as God!
Cut the B.S. & have a Happy New Year!
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truetofaith
Guest
LOL now I’m a heretic! 
Jesus bled & died on the Cross…Isn’t that less than the Father & Spirit ? He left the glory of heaven & became a man. He was still God but needed food, water & sleep which Father & Spirit didn’t!
Happy New Year!
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Gorgias
Guest
"truetofaith:
Jesus “hindered by His humanity”? What does that even mean? Can you back this assertion up in any way, from Church teaching?
No, but what you asserted was pretty well a good re-hash of the kinds of things that Gnostics used to say about the relationship between spirit and flesh. And, these sorts of things are heretical.
Jesus “hindered by His humanity”? What does that even mean? Can you back this assertion up in any way, from Church teaching?
Umm… no.
And yet, it didn’t make Jesus ‘less’ than the Father & Holy Spirit!
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NeuralMonk
Guest
To question the stories, you have to question the authenticity of the ancient manuscripts.
Most of these arguments leave out this or that evident to start the hypothesis.
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NeuralMonk
Guest
There is a difference between the heresy and being a heretic. One is a false statement, the other is a state of being.
Jesus bled & died on the Cross…Isn’t that less than the Father & Spirit ? He left the glory of heaven & became a man. He was still God but needed food, water & sleep which Father & Spirit didn’t!
Code:Happy New Year!
No. You will never find that in true Christianity, just in Gnosticism which has it’s values in Pagan belief structures where mortal is less than divine.
Funny isn’t it, that God so loved us he desired to become one of us. I would say that is an extraordinary claim of love. He never says we are less than him, but to help us attain oneness with Him, He became us.
Not a common claim in metaphysics for sure.
So if God counts being physical so desirable, who are we to say it is not?
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ChristRocket
Guest
Neural Monk,
I understand what you are saying-I’ve heard this several times. Because it all comes down to understanding we are as a person. We as a person are body AND soul, not just one or the other. It’s true that God the Father is full spirit-but that doesn’t make him greater than the Son nor is it what made him greater at this passage.
Is it not true though that the needs of the soul/spirit should be listened to before our bodily needs? I think that this is what “Truetofaith” was getting at.
I understand what you are saying-I’ve heard this several times. Because it all comes down to understanding we are as a person. We as a person are body AND soul, not just one or the other. It’s true that God the Father is full spirit-but that doesn’t make him greater than the Son nor is it what made him greater at this passage.
Is it not true though that the needs of the soul/spirit should be listened to before our bodily needs? I think that this is what “Truetofaith” was getting at.
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Zachary
Guest
I think the point here is like mine made earlier - just because Jesus had human limitations by being fully human (such as hunger, thirst, temptation (in the Garden), and knowlegde) doesn’t NECESSARILY mean that he was not equal with God. Jesus also did many things we cannot do but we still consider him a man.
Jesus bled & died on the Cross…Isn’t that less than the Father & Spirit ? He left the glory of heaven & became a man. He was still God but needed food, water & sleep which Father & Spirit didn’t!
Happy New Year!
It’s a great mystery that contradicts what we know of soley human natured beings but does not have to apply to fully human natured Person of the Trinity.
I hope that makes sense (sounds great between my ears)
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NeuralMonk
Guest
So then why do we see Jesus consistently leave the crowd to go and rest? Was not His purpose, “To seek and save those who were lost?” Why do we see in the Gospels the writer’s show his humanity, like when He was so hard asleep at the bottom of the boat?
Jesus took care of both his body AND his spirit. Paul states that body exercises does profit a little and tells Timothy to take a bit of wine for his stomach. The needs of the body cannot be ignored.
A good source for this is Pope John Paul II “Theology of the Body”. The body was given to us as a gift from God. It has value and that value is the reason we profess the “resurrection of the dead.” Why resurrect something into heaven which has no value there?
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cena
Guest
He still had the glory of being God in His Divine nature. He still had the fullness of being God while being man. He is equal to the other persons of the Trinity
Jesus bled & died on the Cross…Isn’t that less than the Father & Spirit ? He left the glory of heaven & became a man. He was still God but needed food, water & sleep which Father & Spirit didn’t!
Code:Happy New Year!
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Tom_Baum
Guest
I don’t think that it is a “foolish discussion” at all.This is a foolish discussion…Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity!!!
Whether He knew something or not as a Man doesn’t make Him any less as God!
Cut the B.S. & have a Happy New Year!
I think that it may be very telling that in the Incarnation, God did a lot more than some seem to think God did or is even capable of doing.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Knowledge of Jesus Christ
newadvent.org/cathen/08675a.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/08675a.htm
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truetofaith
Guest
What I mean is :Jesus is ‘less’ than the Father & Spirit & “hindered by His humanity” because of the fact He could be hurt, killed, hungry, tempted etc. whereas Father & Spirit could not be. He is still God.
This my last comment on this subject…if you can’t understand how this means “The Father is Greater than I” then it’s stupid to keep trying to explain.
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truetofaith
Guest
Read # 72 Tom!
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cena
Guest
Code:
Jesus still has His full divine nature so he still equal to the Father and the Holy Spirit.
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truetofaith
Guest
I never said He wasn’t…the fool who started this topic wants to make us answer something the theologians can’t answer!
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truetofaith
Guest
Read # 75, Zac!
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Gorgias
Guest
Yes, Jesus had a human body and a human nature, which means that he got hungry and could be killed in body. I agree with this.Gorgias:
What I mean is :Jesus is ‘less’ than the Father & Spirit & “hindered by His humanity” because of the fact He could be hurt, killed, hungry, tempted etc. whereas Father & Spirit could not be. He is still God.
However, you haven’t substantiated how that implies that Jesus could be “hindered by His humanity.” In the Gospel of John, we see that, many times, people sought to kill Jesus, but it could not happen, because it was not His hour. In other words, Jesus couldn’t be hindered, even though He was human.
Gorgias:
This my last comment on this subject…if you can’t understand how this means “The Father is Greater than I” then it’s stupid to keep trying to explain.
I guess that means, “no, I can’t back it up with Church teaching”… 
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truetofaith
Guest
Maybe hindered was the wrong word to use…(I didn’t finish college). ,Bottom line: Jesus had control of every situation including the crucifixion. He is God…why He said “the Father is greater than I”?..ask the yo,yo who started this foolish discussion.Yes, Jesus had a human body and a human nature, which means that he got hungry and could be killed in body. I agree with this.
However, you haven’t substantiated how that implies that Jesus could be “hindered by His humanity.” In the Gospel of John, we see that, many times, people sought to kill Jesus, but it could not happen, because it was not His hour. In other words, Jesus couldn’t be hindered, even though He was human.
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ChristRocket
Guest
Truetofaith-
I’m not quite sure why you have become offended, or why you have lowered yourself to ad hominum attacks towards ME, when I was asking an honest question that is asked by many.
This question is a big stumbling block for many who deny the Trinity or deny the divinity of Christ.
I fully and truly believe in the trinity myself, but my goal is to more fully understand the theology of it. At the beginning of this conversation we had intellectuals like Prothos making good intellegent comments-whom helped me out quite a bit in my theology. He left the coversation because it became derailed in a wierd direction.
If you don’t have anything positive to add to the conversation and would profer to call people names like “yo yo” and deem the discussion foolish-how the discussion of the nature of Christ is foolish is, beyond me (but hey, I didn’t finish college either)-than stop commenting.
We are here on the forums to either increase our understanding, discuss things of importance or to help evangelize those that come by with questions. What if I wasn’t Catholic? I’d be completely turned away by your attitude. Think of that my friend.
God Bless
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TimothyH
Guest
Jesus is not hindered by humanity but willingly accepts humanity with all its limitations.
He gets hungry, cold, tired, cries when his friend dies, is unjustly accused, murdered and buried. He willingly becomes completely reliant on humanity to the point of becoming a fertilized egg inside the womb of a 15 year old peasant girl.
At other times however, he is able to step beyond human limitations in order to show his divinity. He walks on water. He commands the sky and sea to become calm. He disappears when they try to stone him. He reattaches a man’s ear to his head with a wave of his hand. He cures a leper with his touch. He raises the dead and rises from the dead himself.
Humanity is not an hindrance to Jesus. Humanity is the condition through which he chooses to save mankind and redeem all creation. Jesus willingly accepts it and subjects himself to it, but is able to cast it off in an instant when the need arises.
-Tim-
He gets hungry, cold, tired, cries when his friend dies, is unjustly accused, murdered and buried. He willingly becomes completely reliant on humanity to the point of becoming a fertilized egg inside the womb of a 15 year old peasant girl.
At other times however, he is able to step beyond human limitations in order to show his divinity. He walks on water. He commands the sky and sea to become calm. He disappears when they try to stone him. He reattaches a man’s ear to his head with a wave of his hand. He cures a leper with his touch. He raises the dead and rises from the dead himself.
Humanity is not an hindrance to Jesus. Humanity is the condition through which he chooses to save mankind and redeem all creation. Jesus willingly accepts it and subjects himself to it, but is able to cast it off in an instant when the need arises.
-Tim-
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