The Filioque in light of Revelation 22:1

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Do you see a conflict in or with what St. Basil said?

In the case of our Trinity, we have one eternal substance with three eternal hypostases.
No, and it only affirms what everyone knows: You have a nature, you have an essence, and you have a hypostasis, and badabing, you have a person. Christian metaphysical philosophy (or whatever you wanna call it) 101. However, what that quote from St. Basil does NOT do, is give any support to the Filioque as it is currently being interpreted in this topic, or the idea that the Holy Spirit receives His Hypostasis in a distinct manner from His Essence.

We can either say that the Holy Spirit proceeds hypostatically AND substantially from the Father alone, or we can say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son hypostatically AND substantially. So, would you like the red pill or the blue pill on this one?
 
Do you see a conflict in or with what St. Basil said?

In the case of our Trinity, we have one eternal substance with three eternal hypostases.
Not at all. What St. Basil writes about how an hypostasis is a circumscription of an indefinite nature is the same basic idea. An hypostasis is never without nature, as an hypostasis is a particular existence of some nature.
 
But essences can only be considered by virtue of hypostases and hypostases without essence have no content. Every hypostasis has an underlying nature and essence, and only in virtue of hypostases are essences known to exist. Furthermore, the hypostasis is also known as the individual, as he points out in the thirtieth chapter if the philosophical chapters. He writes in this chapter:However the particular they [the fathers] called individual, and person and hypostasis or individual substance, as, for example, would be Peter and Paul. Now the hypostasis must have substance together with accidents, and it must subsist in itself and be found to be sensibly, that is, actually existent. It is furthermore impossible for two hypostases not to differ from each other in their accidents and still to differ from each other numerically. And one should know that the characteristic properties are accidents which distinguish the hypostases.
No, and it only affirms what everyone knows: You have a nature, you have an essence, and you have a hypostasis, and badabing, you have a person. Christian metaphysical philosophy (or whatever you wanna call it) 101. However, what that quote from St. Basil does NOT do, is give any support to the Filioque as it is currently being interpreted in this topic, or the idea that the Holy Spirit receives His Hypostasis in a distinct manner from His Essence.

We can either say that the Holy Spirit proceeds hypostatically AND substantially from the Father alone, or we can say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son hypostatically AND substantially. So, would you like the red pill or the blue pill on this one?
What pill?

Essentially the Father is the cause of equality. Hypostatically the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, the first cause, through (by means of) the Son. There are not three Gods of individual conjugate pairs of (ousia, hypostasis) but three Hypostases with one ousia.

Ousia: The Father is the cause of equality (see V. Lossky)
Hypostasis: The Son and Holy Spirit both proceed from the father (Son begotten specifically, Spirit non-specifically), the Holy Spirit by means of the Son

o|- hyFather - says we are one ousia, (Father of the Son relationship)
u|
s|- hySpirit (Spirit of the Father and the Son relationship)
i|
a|- hySon (Son of the Father relationship)

St. Gregory of Nyssa wrote:If, however, any one cavils at our argument, on the ground that by not admitting the difference of nature it leads to a mixture and confusion of the Persons, we shall make to such a charge this answer—that while we confess the invariable character of the nature, we do not deny the difference in respect of cause, and that which is caused, by which alone we apprehend that one Person is distinguished from another—by our belief, that is, that one is the Cause, and another is of the Cause; and again in that which is of the Cause we recognize another distinction. For one is directly from the first Cause, and another by that which is directly from the first Cause; so that the attribute of being Only-begotten abides without doubt in the Son, and the interposition of the Son, while it guards His attribute of being Only-begotten, does not shut out the Spirit from His relation by way of nature to the Father.

newadvent.org/fathers/2905.htm
 
What pill?
It was a Matrix reference. Here’s the scene.

youtube.com/watch?v=xFhn_GUAhGU&feature=fvwrel
Essentially the Father is the cause of equality. Hypostatically the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, the first cause, through (by means of) the Son. There are not three Gods of individual conjugate pairs of (ousia, hypostasis) but three Hypostases with one ousia.
I’ve read the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople. I know exactly what all that stuff, and the other stuff besides, means. I know basic Trinitarian theology here, especially since it’s been covered in this very topic by other people.
Ousia: The Father is the cause of equality (see V. Lossky)
Hypostasis: The Son and Holy Spirit both proceed from the father (Son begotten specifically, Spirit non-specifically), the Holy Spirit by means of the Son
And it seems we’re back to square one. What does it mean, by means of the Son?
o|- hyFather - says we are one ousia, (Father of the Son relationship)
u|
s|- hySpirit (Spirit of the Father and the Son relationship)
i|
a|- hySon (Son of the Father relationship)
St. Gregory of Nyssa wrote:If, however, any one cavils at our argument, on the ground that by not admitting the difference of nature it leads to a mixture and confusion of the Persons, we shall make to such a charge this answer—that while we confess the invariable character of the nature, we do not deny the difference in respect of cause, and that which is caused, by which alone we apprehend that one Person is distinguished from another—by our belief, that is,** that one is the Cause**, and another is of the Cause; and again in that which is of the Cause we recognize another distinction. For one is directly from the first Cause, and another by that which is directly from the first Cause; so that the attribute of being Only-begotten abides without doubt in the Son, and the interposition of the Son, while it guards His attribute of being Only-begotten, does not shut out the Spirit from His relation by way of nature to the Father.
Read the bolded part. From the same document you quoted, but a bit further down:

“When, therefore, we acknowledge such a distinction in the case of the Holy Trinity, as to believe that one Person is the Cause, and another is of the Cause, we can no longer be accused of confounding the definition of the Persons by the community of nature.”

Note, St. Gregory says that ONE Person is the Cause, not two. It does not say that “two people together form one Cause/Principle.” but instead says that one Person is the Cause. That Person is the Father. This does nothing except support the Orthodox argument.
 
It was a Matrix reference. Here’s the scene.

youtube.com/watch?v=xFhn_GUAhGU&feature=fvwrel

I’ve read the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople. I know exactly what all that stuff, and the other stuff besides, means. I know basic Trinitarian theology here, especially since it’s been covered in this very topic by other people.

And it seems we’re back to square one. What does it mean, by means of the Son?

Read the bolded part. From the same document you quoted, but a bit further down:

“When, therefore, we acknowledge such a distinction in the case of the Holy Trinity, as to believe that one Person is the Cause, and another is of the Cause, we can no longer be accused of confounding the definition of the Persons by the community of nature.”

Note, St. Gregory says that ONE Person is the Cause, not two. It does not say that “two people together form one Cause/Principle.” but instead says that one Person is the Cause. That Person is the Father. This does nothing except support the Orthodox argument.
Catholic argument too:

“For one is directly from the first Cause, and another by that which is directly from the first Cause; so that the attribute of being Only-begotten abides without doubt in the Son, and the interposition of the Son, while it guards His attribute of being Only-begotten, does not shut out the Spirit from His relation by way of nature to the Father.”

Son, directly, Holy Spirit, by that which is directly, and a relationship basis.
 
Catholic argument too:

“For one is directly from the first Cause, and another by that which is directly from the first Cause; so that the attribute of being Only-begotten abides without doubt in the Son, and the interposition of the Son, while it guards His attribute of being Only-begotten, does not shut out the Spirit from His relation by way of nature to the Father.”

Son, directly, Holy Spirit, by that which is directly, and a relationship basis.
That would hold water, except for the “by” preposition, which in no way, shape or form means “from.” Also no mention of the Son being any “second cause,” or even that He is a cause or part of a cause at all. And the Holy Spirit has His relation by way of Nature to the Father, meaning that they have the same Nature. No problem with any of that.
 
That would hold water, except for the “by” preposition, which in no way, shape or form means “from.” Also no mention of the Son being any “second cause,” or even that He is a cause or part of a cause at all. And the Holy Spirit has His relation by way of Nature to the Father, meaning that they have the same Nature. No problem with any of that.
The cause (Father) is the only ‘principle without principle’, the Son is not the ‘principle without principle’. This is where the “as if” is significant in spiration, described in other western statements.

“The eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as the ‘principle without principle,’ is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Spirit proceeds” (Council of Lyons II, DS 850).

Merriam-Webster does give more than one meaning to both of these words. There is actually more than one equivalent of by with from.

from (prep) 3 —used as a function word to indicate the source, cause, agent, or basis

by (prep)
4a : through the agency or instrumentality of
5: with the witness or sanction of
6a : in conformity with
 
Catholic argument too:

“For one is directly from the first Cause, and another by that which is directly from the first Cause; so that the attribute of being Only-begotten abides without doubt in the Son, and the interposition of the Son, while it guards His attribute of being Only-begotten, does not shut out the Spirit from His relation by way of nature to the Father.”

Son, directly, Holy Spirit, by that which is directly, and a relationship basis.
That’s actually a very bad translation, and it would be a mistake to read the Filioque into the Greek original. In the original Greek, it makes no mention of first cause, only being from the first. That sentence actually reads, “Τὸ μὲν γὰρ προσεχῶς ἐκ τοῦ πρώτου ὥστε καὶ τὸ Μονογενὲς ἀναμφίβολον ἐπὶ τοῦ Υιοῦ μένειν καὶ τὸ έκ τοῦ Πατρός εἶναι τὸ Πνεῦμα μὴ αμφιβάλλειν, τῆς τοῦ Υιοῦ μεσιείας καὶ αὐτῷ τὸ Μονογενὲς φυλλατοὺσις, καὶ τὸ Πνεῦμα τῆς φυσικῆς πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα σχέσεως μὴ ἀπειργούσις.” (PG 45, pg 134) This passage is better translated as, “The one is directly from the first and the other is through the one who is directly from the First with the result that the Only-begotten remains the Son and does not negate the Spirit’s being from the Father since the middle position of the Son both protects His distinction as Only-begotten and does not exclude the Spirit from His natural relation to the Father.”

Shiranui’s reading of this letter is actually quite correct. Gregory of Nyssa never once ascribes causality to the Son, reserving that to the Father alone. He is instead trying to differentiate between the way we say that the Son and the Holy Spirit are caused by the cause, because if they were caused in the same way, they would be the same hypostasis. So what does he mean exactly by this ‘through’ and ‘middle position’? We can find some other things from this very treatise which explain what those mean from an Orthodox perspective.

For example, when detailing the unity of operation in the Godhead, he writes: But in the case of the Divine nature we do not similarly learn that the Father does anything by Himself in which the Son does not work conjointly, or again that the Son has any special operation apart from the Holy Spirit; but every operation which extends from God to the Creation, and is named according to our variable conceptions of it, has its origin from the Father, and proceeds through the Son, and is perfected in the Holy Spirit. For this reason the name derived from the operation is not divided with regard to the number of those who fulfil it, because the action of each concerning anything is not separate and peculiar, but whatever comes to pass, in reference either to the acts of His providence for us, or to the government and constitution of the universe, comes to pass by the action of the Three, yet what does come to pass is not three things. We may understand the meaning of this from one single instance. From Him, I say, Who is the chief source of gifts, all things which have shared in this grace have obtained their life. When we inquire, then, whence this good gift came to us, we find by the guidance of the Scriptures that it was from the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yet although we set forth Three Persons and three names, we do not consider that we have had bestowed upon us three lives, one from each Person separately; but the same life is wrought in us by the Father, and prepared by the Son, and depends on the will of the Holy Spirit. Since then the Holy Trinity fulfils every operation in a manner similar to that of which I have spoken, not by separate action according to the number of the Persons, but so that there is one motion and disposition of the good will which is communicated from the Father through the Son to the Spirit (for as we do not call those whose operation gives one life three Givers of life, neither do we call those who are contemplated in one goodness three Good beings, nor speak of them in the plural by any of their other attributes); so neither can we call those who exercise this Divine and superintending power and operation towards ourselves and all creation, conjointly and inseparably, by their mutual action, three Gods. For as when we learn concerning the God of the universe, from the words of Scripture, that He judges all the earth Romans 3:6, we say that He is the Judge of all things through the Son: and again, when we hear that the Father judges no man , we do not think that the Scripture is at variance with itself—(for He Who judges all the earth does this by His Son to Whom He has committed all judgment; and everything which is done by the Only-begotten has its reference to the Father, so that He Himself is at once the Judge of all things and judges no man, by reason of His having, as we said, committed all judgment to the Son, while all the judgment of the Son is conformable to the will of the Father; and one could not properly say either that They are two judges, or that one of Them is excluded from the authority and power implied in judgment);— so also in the case of the word “Godhead,” Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God, and that very power of superintendence and beholding which we call Godhead, the Father exercises through the Only-begotten, while the Son perfects every power by the Holy Spirit. . .and also in this paragraph:If, then, every good thing and every good name, depending on that power and purpose which is without beginning, is brought to perfection in the power of the Spirit through the Only-begotten God, without mark of time or distinction (since there is no delay, existent or conceived, in the motion of the Divine will from the Father, through the Son, to the Spirit): and if Godhead also is one of the good names and concepts, it would not be proper to divide the name into a plurality, since the unity existing in the action prevents plural enumeration. And as the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe 1 Timothy 4:10, is spoken of by the Apostle as one, and no one from this phrase argues either that the Son does not save them who believe, or that salvation is given to those who receive it without the intervention of the Spirit; but God who is over all, is the Saviour of all, while the Son works salvation by means of the grace of the Spirit, and yet they are not on this account called in Scripture three Saviours (although salvation is confessed to proceed from the Holy Trinity): so neither are they called three Gods, according to the signification assigned to the term “Godhead,” even though the aforesaid appellation attaches to the Holy Trinity.Now what he is pointing out is that in will and action, there is a distinctive ordering of the persons, as all energies flow from the Father, through the Son and are perfected in the Spirit. Furthermore, this ordering is eternal, as God has always willed and acted. In this way, and in this way alone, the Spirit can be said to be through the Son (as the mediate position of the Son is an eternal one mediating the energy coming from the Father and going to be perfected in the Spirit), but the Spirit absolutely cannot be said to be from the Son or caused from the Son, as this mediate position is non-causal.
 
The cause (Father) is the only ‘principle without principle’, the Son is not the ‘principle without principle’. This is where the “as if” is significant in spiration, described in other western statements.

“The eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as the ‘principle without principle,’ is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Spirit proceeds” (Council of Lyons II, DS 850).

Merriam-Webster does give more than one meaning to both of these words. There is actually more than one equivalent of by with from.

from (prep) 3 —used as a function word to indicate the source, cause, agent, or basis

by (prep)
4a : through the agency or instrumentality of
5: with the witness or sanction of
6a : in conformity with
The preposition used in the Greek is διὰ, which can be translated alternatively as through or by. Διὰ is not, however, completely equivalent with the Greek preposition ἐκ (meaning ‘from’ or ‘out of’), and this attempt at making the two equivalent was in fact a unionist position which was declared to be heretical by the Synod of Blachernae in 1285. In the sense of having existence, the Spirit can only be from the Father and from the Father alone, never from or even through the Son, while in the sense of existing, the Spirit could be said to be from or through the Son, but the Spirit cannot simply be said to be from the Son without qualification, because the origin of the Spirit’s existence is only from the Father.
 
Substance is the Literal translation of Hypostasis, hypo"=“sub” and “stasis”=“stans” or substans that an EO might think it is, but in Latin theology, Hypostasis is the direct equivalent of Personae in defining the Trinity, and Ousia is translated as substantia.
so Three Hypostasis in one ousia IS NOT three Substance rather Three Persons in *one substance. It has generally been pointed out that *when the Greeks speak of three hypostases, we Latins speak of three personae (Aquinas)
so your question and understanding of that was written is wrong. Do not read the Latin writing and interpret it with Eastern Orthodox theology,
Vico;9441051:
Now, here’s my biggest problem with this idea: It seems to say that the Holy Spirit receives His hypostasis from the Father, yet receives His divine Essence (or substance, if you like) from the Father and then through the Son. Does that mean the Holy Spirit is put together on an assembly line? Because that’s what it sounds like to me. I can’t see any way to interpret otherwise; how can the Holy Spirit receive His Essence in a different manner than (or apart from :eek: ) His hypostasis?
 
I’m just going to break this down, and see if I understand what you’re saying…
Substance is the Literal translation of Hypostasis, hypo"=“sub” and “stasis”=“stans” or substans that an EO might think it is, but in Latin theology, Hypostasis is the direct equivalent of Personae in defining the Trinity, and Ousia is translated as substantia.
So… You’re saying something like this?

Greek hypostasis=Latin Personae
Greek Ousia=Latin Substantia

…Right? In that case, I am going to clarify my quote, so we’re both on the same page.
Now, here’s my biggest problem with this idea: It seems to say that the Holy Spirit receives His hypostasis (Latin: Personae; English: Personhood) from the Father, yet receives His divine Essence (or substance, if you like) (Latin: Substantia, Greek: Ousia) from the Father and then through the Son. Does that mean the Holy Spirit is put together on an assembly line? Because that’s what it sounds like to me. I can’t see any way to interpret otherwise; how can the Holy Spirit receive His Essence in a different manner than (or apart from ) His hypostasis?
so Three Hypostasis in one ousia IS NOT three Substance rather Three Persons in *one substance. It has generally been pointed out that *when the Greeks speak of three hypostases, we Latins speak of three personae (Aquinas)
so your question and understanding of that was written is wrong. Do not read the Latin writing and interpret it with Eastern Orthodox theology,
Uhh, I said exactly what you think I didn’t say… The bolded is what I meant and what I said. Does this clear up the confusion a bit?
 
…Now what he is pointing out is that in will and action, there is a distinctive ordering of the persons, as all energies flow from the Father, through the Son and are perfected in the Spirit. Furthermore, this ordering is eternal, as God has always willed and acted. In this way, and in this way alone, the Spirit can be said to be through the Son (as the mediate position of the Son is an eternal one mediating the energy coming from the Father and going to be perfected in the Spirit), but the Spirit absolutely cannot be said to be from the Son or caused from the Son, as this mediate position is non-causal.
St. Gregory: “The one is directly from the first and the other is through the one who is directly from the First…”

fits well with the Catechism 248, citing Lyons II and Florence:“The eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as the ‘principle without principle,’ [Council of Florence (1442): DS 1331.] is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Spirit proceeds” [Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 850.]
The Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity states:“The one is directly from the first and the other is through the one who is directly from the First…” The Greek Fathers and the whole Christian Orient speak, in this regard, of the “Father’s Monarchy,” and the Western tradition, following St Augustine, also confesses that the Holy Spirit takes his origin from the Father “principaliter,” that is, as principle (De Trinitate XV, 25, 47, PL 42, 1094-1095). In this sense, therefore, the two traditions recognize that the “Monarchy of the Father” implies that the Father is the sole Trinitarian Cause (αἰτία) or Principle (principium) of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
 
St. Gregory: “The one is directly from the first and the other is through the one who is directly from the First…”

fits well with the Catechism 248, citing Lyons II and Florence:“The eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as the ‘principle without principle,’ [Council of Florence (1442): DS 1331.] is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Spirit proceeds” [Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 850.]
The Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity states:“The one is directly from the first and the other is through the one who is directly from the First…” The Greek Fathers and the whole Christian Orient speak, in this regard, of the “Father’s Monarchy,” and the Western tradition, following St Augustine, also confesses that the Holy Spirit takes his origin from the Father “principaliter,” that is, as principle (De Trinitate XV, 25, 47, PL 42, 1094-1095). In this sense, therefore, the two traditions recognize that the “Monarchy of the Father” implies that the Father is the sole Trinitarian Cause (αἰτία) or Principle (principium) of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
You have a long row to hoe in demonstrating that the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father through the Son is the same thing as saying that the Father and Son together are “the single principle from which the Spirit proceeds,” especially when we have already gone over numerous times the meaning of the Holy Spirit proceeding by/through the Son. Even the PCPCU excerpt you posted admits the monarchy of the Father, and the Father alone being the source of the Trinity–and the same goes for the Spirit.
 
St. Gregory: “The one is directly from the first and the other is through the one who is directly from the First…”

fits well with the Catechism 248, citing Lyons II and Florence:“The eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as the ‘principle without principle,’ [Council of Florence (1442): DS 1331.] is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Spirit proceeds” [Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 850.]
The Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity states:“The one is directly from the first and the other is through the one who is directly from the First…” The Greek Fathers and the whole Christian Orient speak, in this regard, of the “Father’s Monarchy,” and the Western tradition, following St Augustine, also confesses that the Holy Spirit takes his origin from the Father “principaliter,” that is, as principle (De Trinitate XV, 25, 47, PL 42, 1094-1095). In this sense, therefore, the two traditions recognize that the “Monarchy of the Father” implies that the Father is the sole Trinitarian Cause (αἰτία) or Principle (principium) of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
But that passage from the catechism is not entirely consistent with St. Gregory of Nyssa. The very terms ‘principle without principle’ and ‘first cause’ imply that the Son could be ‘principle with principle’ and ‘caused (or second) cause’, neither of which Gregory of Nyssa calls the Son. Nor does the passage when translated from the Greek lend well to the idea that the Spirit is through the Son in such a manner that the Son could be construed as a single principle with the Father, as something comes from its principle, not through, and as St. Gregory of Nyssa is quick to point out, the middle position of the Son does not negate the Spirit’s being from the Father, nor exclude the Spirit from His natural (that is natural in the sense of the philosophical term physis) relation to the Father. How them could the Son be considered one principle with the Father, when the Spirit is clearly not from the Son and the Son is not the cause of the Spirit’s having existence?
 
You have a long row to hoe in demonstrating that the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father through the Son is the same thing as saying that the Father and Son together are “the single principle from which the Spirit proceeds,” especially when we have already gone over numerous times the meaning of the Holy Spirit proceeding by/through the Son. Even the PCPCU excerpt you posted admits the monarchy of the Father, and the Father alone being the source of the Trinity–and the same goes for the Spirit.
The two schools of thought are not identical, and it is not my aim to say or demonstrate that they are. They cannot be identical because one is cataphatic and the other apophatic. The Catholic Church put it well when saying:

“…provided this legitimate complementarity does not become rigid, ìt does not affect the identity of faith in the reality of the same mystery confessed”.

Catechism 248

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P17.HTM
 
But that passage from the catechism is not entirely consistent with St. Gregory of Nyssa. The very terms ‘principle without principle’ and ‘first cause’ imply that the Son could be ‘principle with principle’ and ‘caused (or second) cause’, neither of which Gregory of Nyssa calls the Son. Nor does the passage when translated from the Greek lend well to the idea that the Spirit is through the Son in such a manner that the Son could be construed as a single principle with the Father, as something comes from its principle, not through, and as St. Gregory of Nyssa is quick to point out, the middle position of the Son does not negate the Spirit’s being from the Father, nor exclude the Spirit from His natural (that is natural in the sense of the philosophical term physis) relation to the Father. How them could the Son be considered one principle with the Father, when the Spirit is clearly not from the Son and the Son is not the cause of the Spirit’s having existence?
The Father is also not the cause of the existence of the Son or Holy Spirit, in the sense of creation. They all exist eternally. The Father is the cause of equality.

You refer to the east, particularly St. Gregory of Nyssa, having no proion conception in the Trinity. St. Augustine was an early proponent of that. Alexandrian Church also has this idea. The idea came from the mission and was generalized.

**St.Cyril of Alexandria said: **“Since the Holy Spirit when he is in us effects our being conformed to God, and he actually proceeds from the Father and Son, it is abundantly clear that he is of the divine essence, in it in essence and proceeding from it”

Treasury of the Holy Trinity, Th. 34
 
The Father is also not the cause of the existence of the Son or Holy Spirit, in the sense of creation. They all exist eternally. The Father is the cause of equality.
That is really not a traditional explanation of the trinity. If the Son and the Holy Spirit cannot be traced back to one cause, the Father, then we have three Gods not one. The patristic literature is filled with statements about the Father causing the other two persons. What is different, as Athanasius points out in his treatise Against the Arians, is that begetting is according to nature, while creation is according to the work of the will. The Son and the Holy Spirit exist out of some necessity, unlike creation.

I am actually rather perplexed by why you would be uncomfortable with the idea that the Father causes the other persons, but be comfortable admitting that he causes their equality.
You refer to the east, particularly St. Gregory of Nyssa, having no proion conception in the Trinity. St. Augustine was an early proponent of that. Alexandrian Church also has this idea. The idea came from the mission and was generalized.
Where did I ever say that? I am just saying that his differentiation of the persons by their ordering in the formula from the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit (the proion conception of the Trinity), should not be confused with the manner in which the persons actually receive existence.
**St.Cyril of Alexandria said: **“Since the Holy Spirit when he is in us effects our being conformed to God, and he actually proceeds from the Father and Son, it is abundantly clear that he is of the divine essence, in it in essence and proceeding from it”

Treasury of the Holy Trinity, Th. 34
If we were to check the Greek, I’m willing to bet that Cyril used some version of the verb proienai or ekcheo, both of which signify the ordering of the persons insofar as they exist, but does not signify their manner of receiving existence. Cyril, so it seems, was aware of the difference between the two, because during the period of reunion, one thing Theodoret asked Cyril was that if by passages like this, he meant to say that the Son was cause of the hypostasis of the Holy Spirit. Cyril responded that he did not mean to say this, and Theodoret agreed with this denial stating that, that the Holy Spirit only receives existence from the Father.
 
Here some quotations from the same chapter. Excuse me if I make any mistakes, these are my own translations:
Καὶ ὅτι τὸ Πνεῦμά ἐστι τὸ τοῖς ἁγίοις παρὰ Πατρὸς* δι’ Υἱοῦ πεμπόμενον* αὐτὸς μαρτυρήσει λέγων ὁ Σωτήρ· Ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ ὁ Παράκλητος ὃν ἐγὼ πέμψω παρὰ τοῦ Πατρὸς, τὸ Πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας, ὃ παρὰ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορεύεται, ἐκεῖνος μαρτυρήσει περὶ ἐμοῦ (S. Cyril, Thesaurus 34)
Translated that is:
And that the Spirit is sent πέμπω] to the saints from the Father through the Son, the words of the Savior himself testifies: “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father - the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father - he will testify about me."
So, the Father sends the Holy Spirit through the Son even in a temporal manner.
Ὁ δὲ μακάριος Ἰωάννης ἔκ τε τῆς τοῦ Πατρὸς οὐσίας καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ τὸ Πνεῦμα δεικνύων, ἐν μὲν τοῖς Εὐαγγελίοις φησί· Τὸ Πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας παρὰ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορεύεται (S. Cyril, Thesaurus 34).
Translated that is:
And the blessed John [the Apostle], showing that the Spirit is from the substances οὐσίας] of the Father and the Son, says in the Gospels: The Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the father.
So this doesn’t mean that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, only that the Spirit is consubstantial with both because he proceeds from the Father.

And then what we’ve all been waiting for:
Ὅτε τοίνυν τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον ἐν ἡμῖν γενόμενον, συμμόρφους ἀποδεικνύει Θεοῦ, **πρόεισι **δὲ καὶ ἐκ Πατρὸς καὶ Υἱοῦ, πρόδηλον ὅτι τῆς θείας ἐστὶν οὐσίας, οὐσιωδῶς ἐν αὐτῇ καὶ ἐξ αὐτῆς προϊόν. (S. Cyril, Thesaurus 34;585A)
Which is, translated:
That accordingly, the Holy Spirit, having come into us, effects our being conformed to God, proceeds [proienai] from the Father and the Son. It is evident that he is of divine substance οὐσία], in the fulness of His being in it and from it proceeding [proienai]
So, πρόειμι is the verb, and not ἐκπορεύομαι, so that quote can hardly be used to argue for the filioque.
 
Cavaradossi and Credo ergo sum, would either of you mind telling me where you’re finding the Greek for all this? It would be much appreciated! 🙂
 
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