L
lucy212
Guest
If there was no change in doctrine, in the West’s view, but there was in the opinion of the East, why offend them and deliberately tear the Church asunder?
And today, you can find those on both side who say “different wording, same meaning”;
Oops is Cold comfort for those of us who live daily in a “ecclesiastic war zone”.
Was it heresy, or a sibling fight that got out of hand?
I don’t think it was either of these.
Those are two things the Church has always recovered from, even if a majority went astray.
This thing, was and still is, a sin against Charity, and Christ himself…the Church is His Body, (no metaphors here, we are not protestants) and a sin against “His Brethren” (reread Matthew 25, it’s not about random acts of kindness and seeing Christ in others-a perversion of the interpretation that came about post-reformation, when the understanding about the nature of the Church was lost)…we will be judged by how we treat the only True Manifestation of Christ on Earth…the Church, the members that make up is body.
When a Roman Catholic looks at an Eastern Orthodox (and vice versa) and doesn’t recognize Christ, and abuses, ridicules them with words, with the same lightness and carelessness that they use as if they were arguing over some sports rivalry, and can walk away and not give it another thought, and do the same thing the next day…something I see happen here every day, the words “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty”…come to mind.
To me, it sheds light on the Mysterious sin against the Holy Spirit.
Actions were taken that had cosmic results…yes, the Church survived, but whatever happened, it almost seems to have echoes of what happened in Eden…but there is a difference, the final victory has been won, our Salvation is assured and we are living in “the little while”; however,
the Incarnation did not give us immunity to another catastrophic cosmic occurrence.
Christ warned about it, prayed about it ( John 17 seems more agonizing than Gethsemane) the apostles and church fathers went to great pains to prevent it, they knew it was in our power to destroy almost everything.
Christ’s promise about the gates of Hell not prevailing against the Church, have given us a smugness that makes us feel indestructible; If only two peopl in all creation are saved, Christ’s promise still holds-does that ever enter our minds?
Like the person who abuses his own body to the point of irreversible damage, until the physician says “cancer” or “stroke”; repentance may prevent further damage, but it cannot heal what is.
We are like the idiots who turn off our oxygen machines, and just have another smoke.
Woe to those who were responsible for this, and woe to those of us who walk in the ripped open wounded way that remains in it’s wake.
And there are many here on this forum, and Orthodox forums who, rather than put a garment over the shame of their fathers, imitate and outdo Ham in his sin; advertise the shame and sin of our fathers for the world to see and read over and over.
The Unforgivable Sin is an enigma, but my experience with what goes on between Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox has the aroma of what the unforgivable sin might actually be.
Talk of millstones, wishes of never being born are no longer such cruel and enigmatic phrases…but in a strange kind way, contain a terrible mercy in them.
filioque…such a small word.
Thousands of word written to defend it, or condemn on both sides, on this forum, and millions of other places.
Friendly banter? Can I see the hands of those who have not shed tears at one time or another over this friendly banter, have gone home/offline to lick their wounds, and come back for more…hoping tomorrow would be different?. I do; though I cannot bear to come here daily.
And I don’t think I can bear to return much longer.
Half of me is Roman Catholic, half of me is Eastern Orthodox: my own body through my marriage is in schism; It bears the scars, real scars and wounds of what many dismiss as a “stupid” thousand year sibling squabble, that they pronounce, without the least bit of horror, will never be resolved; we bleed everyday, and instead of moving towards healing, are wounded anew by each other and others in our respective corners; those who do not see that it is Christ we tear to pieces with our words.
I am weary of all your wounding words that you cloak with your smilies, and claim it’s all done to help us understand each other better. I understand very clearly.
If my salvation didn’t depend on living in this house divided, I would wipe the dust from my feet and say " A plague o’ both your houses".
filioque-why is it important?
because it may damn us all.
Lord have mercy on us all.
And today, you can find those on both side who say “different wording, same meaning”;
Oops is Cold comfort for those of us who live daily in a “ecclesiastic war zone”.
Was it heresy, or a sibling fight that got out of hand?
I don’t think it was either of these.
Those are two things the Church has always recovered from, even if a majority went astray.
This thing, was and still is, a sin against Charity, and Christ himself…the Church is His Body, (no metaphors here, we are not protestants) and a sin against “His Brethren” (reread Matthew 25, it’s not about random acts of kindness and seeing Christ in others-a perversion of the interpretation that came about post-reformation, when the understanding about the nature of the Church was lost)…we will be judged by how we treat the only True Manifestation of Christ on Earth…the Church, the members that make up is body.
When a Roman Catholic looks at an Eastern Orthodox (and vice versa) and doesn’t recognize Christ, and abuses, ridicules them with words, with the same lightness and carelessness that they use as if they were arguing over some sports rivalry, and can walk away and not give it another thought, and do the same thing the next day…something I see happen here every day, the words “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty”…come to mind.
To me, it sheds light on the Mysterious sin against the Holy Spirit.
Actions were taken that had cosmic results…yes, the Church survived, but whatever happened, it almost seems to have echoes of what happened in Eden…but there is a difference, the final victory has been won, our Salvation is assured and we are living in “the little while”; however,
the Incarnation did not give us immunity to another catastrophic cosmic occurrence.
Christ warned about it, prayed about it ( John 17 seems more agonizing than Gethsemane) the apostles and church fathers went to great pains to prevent it, they knew it was in our power to destroy almost everything.
Christ’s promise about the gates of Hell not prevailing against the Church, have given us a smugness that makes us feel indestructible; If only two peopl in all creation are saved, Christ’s promise still holds-does that ever enter our minds?
Like the person who abuses his own body to the point of irreversible damage, until the physician says “cancer” or “stroke”; repentance may prevent further damage, but it cannot heal what is.
We are like the idiots who turn off our oxygen machines, and just have another smoke.
Woe to those who were responsible for this, and woe to those of us who walk in the ripped open wounded way that remains in it’s wake.
And there are many here on this forum, and Orthodox forums who, rather than put a garment over the shame of their fathers, imitate and outdo Ham in his sin; advertise the shame and sin of our fathers for the world to see and read over and over.
The Unforgivable Sin is an enigma, but my experience with what goes on between Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox has the aroma of what the unforgivable sin might actually be.
Talk of millstones, wishes of never being born are no longer such cruel and enigmatic phrases…but in a strange kind way, contain a terrible mercy in them.
filioque…such a small word.
Thousands of word written to defend it, or condemn on both sides, on this forum, and millions of other places.
Friendly banter? Can I see the hands of those who have not shed tears at one time or another over this friendly banter, have gone home/offline to lick their wounds, and come back for more…hoping tomorrow would be different?. I do; though I cannot bear to come here daily.
And I don’t think I can bear to return much longer.
Half of me is Roman Catholic, half of me is Eastern Orthodox: my own body through my marriage is in schism; It bears the scars, real scars and wounds of what many dismiss as a “stupid” thousand year sibling squabble, that they pronounce, without the least bit of horror, will never be resolved; we bleed everyday, and instead of moving towards healing, are wounded anew by each other and others in our respective corners; those who do not see that it is Christ we tear to pieces with our words.
I am weary of all your wounding words that you cloak with your smilies, and claim it’s all done to help us understand each other better. I understand very clearly.
If my salvation didn’t depend on living in this house divided, I would wipe the dust from my feet and say " A plague o’ both your houses".
filioque-why is it important?
because it may damn us all.
Lord have mercy on us all.
), this comment is not Christian and you should not repeat it. Please revisit this topic in your readings or consult your local pastor. Such a sentiment is dangerous.
