the first Church.

[wisdomseeker]

The simple solution is to look at the writings of the early Church fathers, prior to the time that Protestants say Roman Catholicism was created. Surely those writings would show if the Church then was like the Protestant Churches or the Catholic Church.

they are afraid to. the beauty of the Church reign being from Rome is that Catholics defeated the Roman empire and no weapons were used Just their faith in our Lord and doing what our Lord commanded them to do is now ruling everywhere. we must remember who were the romans and what they were doing in Israel at the time Jesus was here. look now, Jesus our King ruling from Rome through His Church. how can anyone not want to be a part of this.

"Never before has there been so much learning, and yet so little knowledge of the truth."

 

[jbelokur]

No my friend, you think of the Catholic church as that way, noone else does. Think about it. If Christ gave Peter, the first pope authority to run His church until His return, Peter, who reigned as Bishop of ROME for 25 years, that is in fact a ROMAN CATHOLIC isn’t it? That is what started the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH is it not? Don’t forget if it weren’t for the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, you wouldn’t have a bible.

Dude you have seriously misunderstood what I am saying. I’m hardcore Catholic, absolutely in complete union with the Holy Father. What I have been trying to say is that the Church, the Catholic Church, ie the Roman Pontiff and the Bishops in union with Him, never refers to herself as the Roman Catholic Church. It is a fact. Show me one official Church document where it says the “Roman Catholic Church” and I’ll shut up. The Church and the Pope calls the Catholic Church the Catholic Church not the Roman Catholic Church. I agree with you that Peter was absolutely the Bishop of Rome.

ps: Your last sentence made me laugh…can’t you see the “Catholic” up there next to my name where it says religion.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Dude you have seriously misunderstood what I am saying. I’m hardcore Catholic, absolutely in complete union with the Holy Father. What I have been trying to say is that the Church, the Catholic Church, ie the Roman Pontiff and the Bishops in union with Him, never refers to herself as the Roman Catholic Church. It is a fact. Show me one official Church document where it says the “Roman Catholic Church” and I’ll shut up. The Church and the Pope calls the Catholic Church the Catholic Church not the Roman Catholic Church. I agree with you that Peter was absolutely the Bishop of Rome.

ps: Your last sentence made me laugh…can’t you see the “Catholic” up there next to my name where it says religion.

Ok great, but try and act like one because I would never bring this up as an issue.

 

[jbelokur]

Ok great, but try and act like one because I would never bring this up as an issue.

I will bring it up every time a Catholic like yourself continues to use protestant terms to describe the Church. Thanks

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I will bring it up every time a Catholic like yourself continues to use protestant terms to describe the Church. Thanks

Protestant terms to describe the Catholic church? elaborate.

 

[jbelokur]

The term Roman Catholic is not used by the Church herself; it is a relatively modern term, and one, moreover, that is confined largely to the English language. The English-speaking bishops at the First Vatican Council in 1870, in fact, conducted a vigorous and successful campaign to insure that the term Roman Catholic was nowhere included in any of the Council’s official documents about the Church herself, and the term was not included.

Similarly, nowhere in the 16 documents of the Second Vatican Council will you find the term Roman Catholic. Pope Paul VI signed all the documents of the Second Vatican Council as “I, Paul. Bishop of the Catholic Church.” Simply that – Catholic Church. There are references to the Roman curia, the Roman missal, the Roman rite, etc., but when the adjective Roman is applied to the Church herself, it refers to the Diocese of Rome!

Full Article:ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb3.htm

maybe we should follow their lead…just a thought.

 

[jbelokur]

Protestant terms to describe the Catholic church? elaborate.

As I have all ready said to you like three post ago. The term Roman Catholic Church is most commonly used as a pejorative term by non-Catholics ie. protestants. The Catholic Church does not use this terminology as my latest post will plainly shoe you.

 

[Hesychios]

As I have all ready said to you like three post ago. The term Roman Catholic Church is most commonly used as a pejorative term by non-Catholics ie. protestants. The Catholic Church does not use this terminology as my latest post will plainly shoe you.

I have seen this theory bandied about for a while now, and I really don’t know how it first came into English usage. Perhaps you are right.

But I have two comments about your position. First, by now the term has been adopted enthusiastically by Catholics of the Latin rite. There are many (perhaps most) who identify themselves as such, so any offense is misplaced until you can get all of these people to stop calling themselves that.

Secondly, it is a common term used by Greek Orthodox to self identify in the homeland, and this for many centuries before the Protestant Reformation. So Orthodox never considered it a pejorative.

 

[jbelokur]

I have seen this theory bandied about for a while now, and I really don’t know how it first came into English usage. Perhaps you are right.

But I have two comments about your position. First, by now the term has been adopted enthusiastically by Catholics of the Latin rite. There are many (perhaps most) who identify themselves as such, so any offense is misplaced until you can get all of these people to stop calling themselves that. Secondly, it is a common term used by Greek Orthodox to self identify in the homeland, and this for many centuries before the Protestant Reformation. So Orthodox never considered it a pejorative.

This may be so, I agree with you that this popular term for the Catholic Church has been adopted by many Catholics. Though I still think that it is a term that is to be avoided for nothing is gained by adding the word Roman in front of the words Catholic Church. Again, if the Bishops saw it fit to make sure it was not to be found in any official documents of the last two councils that to me speaks volumes, and like I said…maybe we should follow their lead.

It is normal for the Orthodox to use regional terms associated with the term Orthodox. Though I may have misunderstood what you are saying, are you saying the term, “Roman Catholic Church” was used by the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

This may be so, I agree with you that this popular term for the Catholic Church has been adopted by many Catholics. Though I still think that it is a term that is to be avoided for nothing is gained by adding the word Roman in front of the words Catholic Church. Again, if the Bishops saw it fit to make sure it was not to be found in any official documents of the last two councils that to me speaks volumes, and like I said…maybe we should follow their lead.

It is normal for the Orthodox to use regional terms associated with the term Orthodox. Though I may have misunderstood what you are saying, are you saying the term, “Roman Catholic Church” was used by the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece?

Give me a break…stop beating this up. If I and 1.1 Billion others want to use the term that is the correct term to use which is Roman Catholic, we will do so. You can’t tell us what to call ourselves. I AM A ROMAN CATHOLIC. period. Doesn’t matter what the pope goes by, everyone knows he’s from Rome…hello?

 

[jbelokur]

Doesn’t matter what the pope goes by/QUOTE]

Well, I’ll stick with the Holy Father, and you can do what ever you would like my Roman Catholic friend.

 

[Hesychios]

It is normal for the Orthodox to use regional terms associated with the term Orthodox. Though I may have misunderstood what you are saying, are you saying the term, “Roman Catholic Church” was used by the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece?

Yes, in Greek.

“Byzantine” is a word hung on the empire by modern western scholars. They considered themselves the Roman empire until the very end, and their nation was the Roman people.

 

[guanophore]

No my friend, you think of the Catholic church as that way, noone else does. Think about it. If Christ gave Peter, the first pope authority to run His church until His return, Peter, who reigned as Bishop of ROME for 25 years, that is in fact a ROMAN CATHOLIC isn’t it? That is what started the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH is it not? Don’t forget if it weren’t for the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, you wouldn’t have a bible.

No, OTCA, the canon of scripture was closed before the Latin Rite developed in the Catholic Church. Peter being in Rome does not make the Catholic Church any more 'Roman" that Peter being in Jerusalem makes it “Hebrew” or when he appointed Bishops in Antioch “Syrian”. It is counterproductive for you to project your narrow minded attitude of Catholicity upon everyone.

I agree that it is ridiculuous to assert that one believes “God started the Catholic Church, but not the Roman Catholic Church”. It is just as preposterous as saying that about any of hte Rites. However, your method of dealing with this ridiculous assertion is not appropriate. It is demeaning to other Catholics who are not part of your Rite.

the beauty of the Church being from Rome is that Catholics defeated the Roman empire and no weapons were used Just their faith in our Lord and doing what our Lord commanded them to do is now ruling everywhere. we must remember who were the romans and what they were doing in Israel at the time Jesus was here. look now, Jesus our King ruling from Rome through His Church. how can anyone not want to be a part of this.

The Church is not “from Rome”, but from Christ. I agree, though, about the defeat. Most of those who insist on label “Roman” are those who believe that the Catholic Church absorbed the Pagan practices of the Empire, then replaced it. Some think that the Church is the whore of Babylon.

Jesus does nor rule from “Rome”, but from heaven, where He is seated at the right hand of God. He rules through His vicar, the successor of Peter. This would be the case I(and has been the case) no matter where that successor resides. If Rome were wiped off the map by a meteor, the successor Peter woudl still rule the Church.

Protestant terms to describe the Catholic church? elaborate.

The term “Roman” was invented as a slur, just like the term “Papist”. It is generally used by those who are ignorant of the Catholicity of the Church throughout the world, and erroneously believe that the entire Catholic Church is “Roman”. The appropriate term is “Latin” Rite.

 

[rinnie]

Here is how to figure it, rinnie. The Church began in Palestine,and all of the first members were Jews. They had an Aramaic Liturgy (which is still used today in Palestine). The spread of the Church began to the East, and flourished first in Antioch of Syria. This is the second oldest Rite. Paul, as we read in Acts, spread the gospel around the known world, but most of the liturgies were in Gk, because that was the common linguistic currency. Some 20 years later, both Peter and Paul were in Rome, still doing liturgies in Gk. and Aramaic.

When the Western Empire collapsed centuries later, the primary language in the West became Latin. At that time, the Latin Rite was distinct from the Eastern and Oriental Rites which retained the older language and practices. They are all valid, they are all in unity with the bishop of Rome. The are all Catholic.

No one is asking you to give up your affiliation for your Rite, or being proud of it.

There is no need to tell him. Our Pope know what you apparently do not, that the Catholic Church is universal. He presides as Pope over 23 Rites in the Church, only one of them Roman.

Peter did not start the Church, rinnie, Jesus did. He said “Upon this Rock I WILL BUILD my Church”. Jesus is the builder. He is not Roman either.

There is also a valid Apostolic Succession in all the places where the Apostles appointed bishops, beginning in Jerusalem,a nd then in Antioch. Antioch has the oldest line of Petrine bishops. They are not less Catholic than those in the Latin Rite.

Hi Guan, And I apologize I got a little carried away. And everything you said is right. Father told me that along time ago. He said the only difference is Paul went one way, Peter went another to start church’s. And he did say that as long as they are in communion with rome they are just as valid. He told me the biggest difference is only the way they did things. Customs. Like my kids did communion in second grade confirmation in eight. Etc. Same meaning. Our faith is the same, the way we do customs is different. I guess what I really need to understand better is why the different rites. After the holiday I want to start a thread and figure out that. THen I can understand it better. Again, no disrepsect to the different rites, I was wrong. We are all the same faith. Sorry everyone!

 

[guanophore]

It is normal for the Orthodox to use regional terms associated with the term Orthodox. Though I may have misunderstood what you are saying, are you saying the term, “Roman Catholic Church” was used by the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece?

Yes, and the Eastern Catholics as well. This is one way the Orthodox and Eastern Catholics distinguish themselves from Latin Rite Catholics.

Give me a break…stop beating this up. If I and 1.1 Billion others want to use the term that is the correct term to use which is Roman Catholic, we will do so. You can’t tell us what to call ourselves. I AM A ROMAN CATHOLIC. period. Doesn’t matter what the pope goes by, everyone knows he’s from Rome…hello?

Of course you may describe yourself as you please, but technically speaking, you are Catholic - Latin Rite.

It misrepresents the Church to the world, and especially Protestants who are ignorant to the true Catholic nature of the Church.

 

[shuzo1189]

Give me a break…stop beating this up. If I and 1.1 Billion others want to use the term that is the correct term to use which is Roman Catholic, we will do so. You can’t tell us what to call ourselves. I AM A ROMAN CATHOLIC. period. Doesn’t matter what the pope goes by, everyone knows he’s from Rome…hello?

I think what jbelokur was getting at is that Roman Catholic refers specifically to adherents of the Latin Rite, but Holy Mother Church always refers to herself as The Catholic Church. If she reffered to herself as “The Roman Catholic Church” we would be incorrect as The Church is composed of 22 Eastern Rites. It would be quite a mouthful to say “I am a Member of the Roman Ukrainian Catholic Church”.

If your interested NewAdvent has a very through article on the subject:newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm

 

[Benadam]

The community that gathered around Jesus was very carefull to preserve it’s structures. They still structure that community to this day. The Church is the only Church because it is the only one made visible by the structures established in the beginning by the ‘so called’ first church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Give me a break…stop beating this up. If I and 1.1 Billion others want to use the term that is the correct term to use which is Roman Catholic, we will do so. You can’t tell us what to call ourselves. I AM A ROMAN CATHOLIC. period. Doesn’t matter what the pope goes by, everyone knows he’s from Rome…hello?

trueCatholic.
this is not what we are talking about. the whole issue here is why this term has been used by so many today and its purpose.

well, many protestants call it roman Catholic with the belief that this Church is just another one among others. to my protestant friend, one time tried to quote St Augustine on the CC, immediatly she responded: “the roman Catholic Church did not existed at the time of St Augustine.” i hope you can see what is really going with this term applied by many. before you come to adopt such term as this, please try to learn what is behind of it, try to learn what is really the purpose. tks

 

[jbelokur]

I agree that it is ridiculous to assert that one believes “God started the Catholic Church, but not the Roman Catholic Church”. It is just as preposterous as saying that about any of the Rites. However, your method of dealing with this ridiculous assertion is not appropriate. It is demeaning to other Catholics who are not part of your Rite.

The term “Roman” was invented as a slur, just like the term “Papist”. It is generally used by those who are ignorant of the Catholicity of the Church throughout the world, and erroneously believe that the entire Catholic Church is “Roman”. The appropriate term is “Latin” Rite.

Just to let you know, I, in no way, am asserting that "God Started the Catholic Church but not the “Roman Catholic Church”. I too have come across protestants that assert this, saying that the Catholic Church spoken of in the works of the Fathers is different than the Roman Catholic Church which began in the fourth century. This is bogus nonsense. However, you can see how the term Roman Catholic in this instance has given those fundamentalist who use this argument a crazy idea that they are two different entities. It doesn’t matter weather you are Eastern rite, Oriental rite or any of the many different rites of the Church, what matters is that you are under the larger umbrella term the Catholic Church. We should all be making a united front as Catholics not giving the impression that we are a conglomerate of some sort of sub-Church denominations. Don’t get me wrong I love being Latin Rite, but I really love being in the Holy Catholic Church

 

[Kevinbrand]

OTCA yes the universal church is the catholic church. The church that all Christ followers are part of. Catholics are not derived from St. Peter they are derived from Christ. We are followers of Christ not Peter.

As far as my religion I am a Christian. My church is a Christian church that adheres to Apostolic teachings. As far as going to the catacombs no I have not been there but I see no relevance with writings on the walls. What is that supposed to prove? With regard to the Orthodox I think you mis-stated your point. The Orthodox broke off in 1054 but certainly were not in unity with the pope afterward. Perhaps you meant to say broke off and became Orthodox in dis-unity with the pope. Actually this overall is a false statement. The church always considered itself catholic in nature and orthodox in it’s beliefs. The orthodox did not break off and become orthodox. They were already orthodox to begin with.

First of all, your religion is an evangelical church, everyone who believes in Christ is a Christian. what happens is that these religions believe that they are the only ones that have Jesus in their hearts. However, we have it there and as a food that feeds our spirit; thus, We Catholics deserve to be called christians because the protestants can be called christians because the Catholic church gave them somehow the message of Christ, so whether the catholic church had disappeared; u protestants would not be able to exist either. The Catholic church is the first church. Read an enciclopedia, and there you will find it. Please, in order to know the truth, do not read those magazines about awake, and protestant books because they are going to offer just a new probable point of view. Of course, in the bible the catholic church was not called catholic, it as called the christian community and was considered as a chased sect. Then, throughout the years it was called as the catholic church when it became the religion of the european continent. Afterwards, it was devided into the ones who believed in the pope as the leader and into the ones that prefered different leaders and did not recognize the authority of Peter as the first pope. Anyway; it was the catholic church, but the orthodoxes were there as a part of us, but with different beliefs. Nevertheless, before the reform it was called as the christians church because that was the religion of Christ in europe, but unfortunatley, in a part of the history, not the church, but some people of the church believed that they had the authoruty to convince people of what they believed in a rude way, mainly in Spain. Just because they were afraid of new ideologies such as the muslim, and some points against the science. Blessings, i am sorry for my English, but i am not native speaker; so this only what i can do… In spanish i would explain it better… I hope i can improve it, but here in Costa Rica it is difficult. but God knows what he does with me… BYE