The Flood: Did it happen?

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In another thread, there was a debate about whether flood occurred or not. Unfortunately, for those participants of the discussion, that wasn’t on topic. So I created this thread. Personally, I believe in the flood.
 
I can’t answer for sure. What I can say is that the same word in Hebrew that is used in the Bible using “world” can also mean land,country,earth,or ground. Replace any of these words it could change the whole meaning of flood story,meaning it could have been a regional area flood. Also take in consideration, that the writer considers the whole known world/countries maybe not the unknown world/countries? The Bible story does speak of the flood story in relation to what Noah’s world was,maybe not the world of the unknown world,land,country, or ground.
 
I think that it is unlikely. There are millions of species of animals on the earth. Given the described size of the ark, the animals simply would not fit, let alone all their food.
 
If you are talking about the story of Noah and his ark, and the flood therewith,

No.

It would be a physical impossibility for the entire planet to be flooded, there is not enough water to do that.

Also, there is no geological evidence that such a flood has taken place.

And, as VicApple pointed out, there are millions of species on the planet and only a small percentage of that could fit into the ark as described.

Seeker
 
This is something that I’ve wondered about. What does the Church teach about the Flood? As Catholics, are we obligated to believe in a Flood, whether global or regional, or can we view the Flood account as allegory or something else non-literal?
 
seeker57 said:
If you are talking about the story of Noah and his ark, and the flood therewith,

No.

It would be a physical impossibility for the entire planet to be flooded, there is not enough water to do that.

Also, there is no geological evidence that such a flood has taken place.

And, as VicApple pointed out, there are millions of species on the planet and only a small percentage of that could fit into the ark as described.

Seeker
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But can’t God bend the rules?
 
To extend what Faithjoy said, it is historically true that there was a breach that created the Straits of Dardanelles and Mediterranean water flooded what is now the Black Sea. We know from deep-water probes that there were towns on what is now the abyssal plain. Even if the Flood “only” involved this area, it certainly was the end of the world for these people. That a vessel would end up in Armenia or Turkey is entirely believable. And it would take some time for the ground to become solid enough to support weight. So, if you wonder if there could have been such an event historically, then the answer is unequivocally yes.
 
If you make the story of the flood and creation allegoric, what do you do with verses like:

Matthew 24
37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Luke 17:26
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man.

1 Peter 3
18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

Luke 3

23Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, 33the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Is then future judgement allegoric? Is Sinful nature we inherit from Adam allegoric? Did death enter the world before Adam? Is not death the penalty of sin?

Allegorical interpretation of these stories has some serious consequence when we look at these topics.
 
" Is then future judgement allegoric? Is Sinful nature we inherit from Adam allegoric? Did death enter the world before Adam? Is not death the penalty of sin?

Allegorical interpretation of these stories has some serious consequence when we look at these topics. . . "

You have identified the very reason organized religion stands firmly behind a literal take on some totally illogical dogma…
 
Inquiringperson said:
In another thread, there was a debate about whether flood occurred or not. Unfortunately, for those participants of the discussion, that wasn’t on topic. So I created this thread. Personally, I believe in the flood.
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I absolutely believe in the flood. Why would Peter, inspired by the Holy Spirit, say " when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark." 1 Peter 3:20

Two great books on this topic are *The Genesis Flood *by Henry Morris and *The Doctrines of Genesis *by Father Victor Warkulwiz
 
Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not saying the Flood IS an allegory. I am just wondering what the official position of the Church is. From what I’ve been able to gather since reading this thread, the historicity of Noah and the Flood (global or not) is the teaching of the Church. I don’t know how much leeway we have in interpretation, though.
 
ChristIsTheWay said:
Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not saying the Flood IS an allegory. I am just wondering what the official position of the Church is. From what I’ve been able to gather since reading this thread, the historicity of Noah and the Flood (global or not) is the teaching of the Church. I don’t know how much leeway we have in interpretation, though.
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In Father Warkulwiz book *The Doctrines of Genesis *the flood is listed as Doctrine Fifteen where he says "Scripture and Tradition clearly proclaim the historical fact that a worldwide flood destroyed the earth in the time of Noah.

The Fathers of the Church believed it to be historical. The Church has made no official decree on this but based on Scripture and Tradition it is held as true
 
Third_Day said:
In Father Warkulwiz book *The Doctrines of Genesis *the flood is listed as Doctrine Fifteen where he says "Scripture and Tradition clearly proclaim the historical fact that a worldwide flood destroyed the earth in the time of Noah.

The Fathers of the Church believed it to be historical. The Church has made no official decree on this but based on Scripture and Tradition it is held as true
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I’ve considered purchasing Fr. Warkulwiz’s book to get a traditional Catholic understanding of the first chapters of Genesis. Overall, do you think it is a good source of information for the layperson?

One thing that does keep me leaning toward a global Flood, as well as a literal six day creation, is the Fathers of the Church. I am not sure why God would allow so many of them (virtually all of them) to enter into error on this matter.

I don’t know. It does seem to me that, as of late, the Church is allowing quite a bit of leeway in interpretation.
 
ChristIsTheWay said:
I’ve considered purchasing Fr. Warkulwiz’s book to get a traditional Catholic understanding of the first chapters of Genesis. Overall, do you think it is a good source of information for the layperson?

One thing that does keep me leaning toward a global Flood, as well as a literal six day creation, is the Fathers of the Church. I am not sure why God would allow so many of them (virtually all of them) to enter into error on this matter.

I don’t know. It does seem to me that, as of late, the Church is allowing quite a bit of leeway in interpretation.
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I was wavering on Genesis until I read his book which presents the Traditional teaching that has always been held. Another good book is written by a Protestant Henry Morris called The Genesis Flood. He goes into great detail of the flood in scripture that I had never considered. Father Warkulwiz references his book.

One verse in scripture that convinces me of a literal 6 days is Exodus 20. This is the account of God giving Moses the Ten Commandments. In verse 11 God says “for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that is in them and rested the seventh day, therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hollowed it”

Seems to me that since the seventh day, the sabbath, is a literal 24 hours, how can we claim all the other days are millions of years?
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Here’s an interesting tidbit:

My mother is a Native American. Our people’s version of how the earth was created involves a flood, after which a great bird came down and flapped its wings to create valleys. The land was nourished and ready for the Great One to send down his faithful first family.

Something to ponder. 😉
 
For anyone who doubts that there is enough water to flood the whole world, have a look at this link.

It is really not a problem at all for the Lord to command the water in this ocean and also in undoubtedly other yet to be discovered bodies of water like it to rise and flood the entire planet.
 
My mother is a Native American. Our people’s version of how the earth was created involves a flood, after which a great bird came down and flapped its wings to create valleys. The land was nourished and ready for the Great One to send down his faithful first family.
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Native beliefs are fluid. They freely adopted aspects of The Book that they liked. It cannot be definitively said that there is no Christian influence on the Creation myth that you just reported. Such influence existed from shortly after first contact, given that the pioneers in first contact were often missionaries. But it is a beautiful bubble. :cool:
 
buffalo said:
There are flood stories in almost every culture.
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Precisely my point. I can’t help but think that this isn’t a coincidence - and, being a Christian, I find great pleasure when I hear the similiarities in the stories. I am a big believer in there being one “truth”.

As for the “fluidity” of Native American teachings…that could be, or could not be. Since our tribe is one of the few with its own written language, and a few stories written before the settlement of the US (creation being one of them), I have doubts that this was influenced by Christianity. Our tribe were also monotheists with beliefs of a “second coming” - it was very easy for my ancestors to adopt Christianity, for it was essentially the same beliefs in a more organized substance.
 
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