The forgotten Missal

  • Thread starter Thread starter Psalm45_9
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Psalm45_9

Guest
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a copy of the Missal of 1965? I saw on the internet last summer, but I have not been able to find it again. I only read it once and I was intrigued by it, I would really like to read it again.
 
Somewhere I have a people’s edition of it, published by Catholic Book Publishing Company, but I do not have an Altar edition of it.

I do know a priest in town that I have lunch with from time to time, who just can’t stop harping on how the 65 Missal (I believe the term he uses is “The Interim Missal”) was the best thing to come out of the Vatican, liturgically, in the Vatican II era.

Of course, he wasn’t ordained by his Latin-rite Bishop until 1986, but that’s another story entirely 😉

Rob+
 
I’ve also seen a copy somewhere, and in it I saw the vast majority of liturgical updates actually requested by Vatican II outside of the expanded lectionary, which makes sense as the bulk of it was composed while the bishops of Vatican II were still gathered in Rome and paying attention. It was close enough to the older missals that the existing music for mass parts could be used without alteration.

If anything, the 1969 and later missals moved away from what Vatican II actually asked for, outside of introducing an expanded cycle of readings. But even the expanded reading cycle had a problem in that they set it to a differnet calendar than had been used previously in the West (and is still used in the East) serving to further divide the unitly of the Church both liturgically and across the different rites.

If we rolled back to the 1965 missal and modified the new cycle of readings to fit the traditional calendar (and thus come back into line with the Eastern Churches) I’d be a happy camper.
 
I have one. It’s missing a few pages and I can’t remember where I got it. It has a bunch of hymns in it and it’s kind of a mix between what we see today and the Tridentine mass. It takes out a lot of the prayers the priest said in the previous mass.

You know, if you ever saw a “new mass” said in Latin with the priest doing the consecration facing away from the people you would be surpised. It has a lot of the feeling of the Tridentine Mass, but you get to hear the Consecration and the Prayers.
 
40.png
Ray_Scheel:
If we rolled back to the 1965 missal and modified the new cycle of readings to fit the traditional calendar (and thus come back into line with the Eastern Churches) I’d be a happy camper.
Click to expand...
Actually, this is not quite true. The Maronite calendar begins with the First Sunday of November as the Sunday of Dedication. This is the beginning of their Church Year. In addition, their Lent begins on a Monday as opposed to a Wednesday, and their Advent is longer. In like manner, even those of the Byzantine/Russian/Greek traditions have a differing calendar that begins, I believe, with the First Sunday in September.

There has never been a single universal Christian calendar, save for the celebration of Pascha for the first hundred or hundred and fifty years of Church history.

Rob+
 
I have one i bought at a flea market. It seems never to have been used. I picked it up mistakenly thinking it was The 1962 Missal. every time I find A 62 Missal I purchase it. As someone, at our tridentine Mass always needs one. Our Pastor jokingly refers to this as My “apostolate” I just this past week ordered 3 brand new 62 Missals, They are now available from Angelus press. This is the first total retypeset edition,printed since Vatican II. It is updated with a calender to the year 2066. cant wait to get my hands on them.

back to the 65 Missal. I haven’t really perused through it. But at first glance, it seems the ordinary is just a translation of the Tridentine Mass. That is what initially fooled me, when I purchased it. I asked a Priest friend of mine, who was ordained in 1943. He said He remembered this Missal being used only briefly.
Before the Missal ,of PaulVI came out. The Modern day Novus Ordo. I will say this Their is some really bad 1960’s Art work in this missal :cool: .

Et Lux in Tenebris lucet,et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt
 
Now I see what Vatican II really intended… :crying: One thing I noticed is that the Gloria after the Kyrie is not mentioned. Was it removed in the Missal of 1965 and put back in 1970? I doubt it because it seems the missal of 1970 took more things away and/or made them options. Is it just a typo where the author of the site forgot to put it in?
 
I have both people’s and altar editions of the 1965 Order of Mass. It was not an edition of the missal, strictly speaking, because it was still the 1962 typical edition, with the portions that were permitted in the vernacular given. The psalm Judica me and the last gospel were suppressed. No changes were made to the propers of the Mass until the new missal a few years later.
 
OK, I did some research on the internet. It is a typo of the author, the Gloria was in the 1965 missal. The mass was primarily celebrated in Latin with the option of saying the: Introit, Kyrie, Gloria, and Agnus Dei in the Vernecular. Towards the end, around 1967, the mass had the option of being compleatly celebrated in the Vernecular, even the readings. I also heard that towards the end of this missal, lay people could be lectors and would come up out of the congregation to read the Epistle.
 
The option for lay lectors and “commentators” began in 1965 (actually, the first Sunday of Advent, 1964). When there was no subdeacon, they could read the epistle in the vernacular.

As for the Gloria, it must have been an individual publisher of a people’s edition who accidentally omitted it, as it is present in all altar editions from 1965-1970. Permission was given for the Canon of the Mass to be recited in the vernacular (and aloud, which was a far more significant development) in October, 1967. But the priest’s inaudible prayers continued to be the Tridentine Latin prayers, until the new missal was begun in 1970 (Advent Sunday, 1969).

Note that in all of the transitional texts 1965-1970, the response to The Lord be with you was always And with your spirit, a true translation of Et cum spiritu tuo, rather than And also with you, which appeared publicly for the first time in the 1970 missal.
 
The last Gospel (reading from the begining of the Holy Gopsel according to St. John) looks also to have been given the boot in 1965.
 
Yes, the last gospel and psalm 42 Judica me were supressed on 7 March 1965, along with the Leonine prayers after Low Mass, where they were still said. The latter had been optional since 1962.
 
40.png
Chatter163:
Note that in all of the transitional texts 1965-1970, the response to The Lord be with you was always And with your spirit, a true translation of Et cum spiritu tuo, rather than And also with you, which appeared publicly for the first time in the 1970 missal.
Click to expand...
I read the other night the approved Missal of 2000, the response “And with your spirit” is returning. Also, the translation of the Gloria and the Nicene Creed is going to be more literal.
 
40.png
EddieArent:
The last Gospel (reading from the begining of the Holy Gopsel according to St. John) looks also to have been given the boot in 1965.
Click to expand...
That much I knew. The prayer at the foot of the altar was shortend and became an option, psalm 42 was not recited in this option. Not only did the last gospel get booted but also: the 3 Hail Marys, The Hail, Holy Queen, the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, and the 3 petitions to the Sacred Heart at Low Mass got booted. The reason for this is that they were after the final blessing and intern, they are not part of the Mass. At least that’s what I’ve been told.
 
When I took religious ed. as a kid, I was told by my instructors the only difference between the Old Latin Mass and the current, is that the current is celebrated in English and the Priest faces the people. Then about 5 years ago I came across my Great-Grandmother’s Missal from the 1940’s, it was a big eye opener.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top