The futility of prayer

[MarieVeronica]

why is prayer such a useless endeavor? i have been praying every day for years, and have NEVER had a prayer answered. not even a “no”. i just get nothing, emptiness, absence. why is prayer such an exercise in futility for some, when it seems to be such a wonderful experience for others? why is God so active in the lives of some, and so absent in the lives of others?

I would like to suggest a good book to you. This book might give you some of the answers you’re seeking. It is called “The Promise: God’s Purpose and Plan for When Life Hurts” by Father Jonathan Morris.

In this book, Fr. Morris describes the different perceptions that people often have of God… and His ways. For example, there is “God the Vending Machine”. He is the “God” who answers all our prayers, in the way WE would like. Then, there is “God of the Buffet”… where we pick and choose what we like or don’t like, about God. And so forth.

I found this book to be extremely helpful… in expanding my very limited understanding of God… and how He works in our lives. Believe me, it is all about LOVE with God. May He bless you and give you grace.

 

[reen12]

There is also an anecdote, from Eastern thought,
that one might find applicable - in terms of what
God wishes me to do, in life.
A young student of Zen - who wished to be taught,
with all of his heart, asked the *roshi *- a Zen master,
and an elderly man:
“Master, how am I to learn Zen?”
“Have you finished your breakfast?”
“Yes.”
“Wash your bowls.”



That anecdote puts me in mind of what Father Groeschel has said.
“Take the next good step.”

If our feet trod on the path limned by both the spiritual and the corporal works of mercy,
while following His ten commandments, carrying out - each day - the duties of our state in life,
[married, single, religious life] we please Him.

What must I do to follow Him, and to know His will?
[In my own case, at the moment:]
“Have you made lunch yet?”
"No, I haven’t. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
“Go make lunch.”

reen12

 

[mommyof4]

There is also an anecdote, from Eastern thought,
that one might find applicable - in terms of what
God wishes me to do, in life.
A young student of Zen - who wished to be taught,
with all of his heart, asked the *roshi *- a Zen master,
and an elderly man:
“Master, how am I to learn Zen?”
“Have you finished your breakfast?”
“Yes.”
“Wash your bowls.”

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/washyourbowls.jpg

That anecdote puts me in mind of what Father Groeschel has said.
“Take the next good step.”

If our feet trod on the path limned by both the spiritual and the corporal works of mercy,
while following His ten commandments, carrying out - each day - the duties of our state in life,
[married, single, religious life] we please Him.

What must I do to follow Him, and to know His will?
[In my own case, at the moment:]
“Have you made lunch yet?”
"No, I haven’t. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
“Go make lunch.”

reen12

Ohhhh… I like that one…

 

[mommyof4]

for myself, and i think for most people, i just want to know that what i am doing is the right thing. and if i am not doing the right thing, i would like to know it, and so be able to change it. i just want to be comfortable knowing i am on the right track, or at least working towards getting on the right track. the silence i hear, and the absence i feel, only fills me with fear and dread. it is the uncertainty of my position that causes me to despair, not knowing if what i am doing is pleasing to God, or if i am riding the racehorse to hell. it is the uncertainty that causes me to question and inspect everything, but never coming up with a real answer. i don’t expect things to be easy, and i most certainly understand that it wont be, but the inability to take comfort in the knowledge that i am at least heading in the right direction is very discouraging and disheartening. is the absence i feel a sign that i am on the right track, or is it a sign that i am in the elevator traveling downwards? is there really a way to know the true answer to that question in this life? i don’t know.

Dang71, I think I understand your dilemma. If you’re like me, you don’t want to go through life, thinking that you’re doing God’s will, only to find out at the end that you totally messed up, didn’t “get it,” and come to find that you were only deceiving yourself in thinking you were doing God’s will. It may help to find yourself a spiritual director, and maybe he can help you work this out? Discernment is very difficult (as I’m finding out), and the best thing I can tell you is that spending time in prayer (even dry prayer), can help. And I can’t help but believe (my opinion) that our desire to do Gods’ will, even though we don’t understand it or always “get it,” is pleasing to God.

I’m just starting a book on discernment, Weeds Among the Wheat, and if I get any huge insights, I’ll share them with you.

Also, as some other posters have mentioned, the Church has already done some discernment for us- taken some of the work out of it, for us, so to say. She has given us the corporal and spiritual acts of mercy, the sacraments, and other teachings to help us understand what God wants of us.

Good luck and God Bless!

 

[Conservative]

Prayer is not a useless endeavor. It’s an act of Faith in God. If you only knew how many people don’t get the answers to their prayers - or at least exactly what they prayed for. You haven’t been singled out in any way - most of us feel sometimes that our prayers haven’t been answered.

I often question the quote “ask and you shall receive” - since that sounds so absolute. But while I don’t get answers to all my prayers - particularly in the way I’d prefer, perhaps - I trust in God who is our Father and Creator. I cry alot - and God hears that, too. But while my prayer life is often lacking - I don’t consider prayer a useless endeavor. God hears and accepts all our prayers - answering in ways He so chooses, which is His Divine Right - and difficult as it may be sometimes, that’s good enough for me.

 

[LilyM]

Isn’t is also possible that God doesn’t say yes or no, but just let’s the outcome that was going to happen actually happen?

Still means your prayer is in accord with God’s will, albeit His permissive will. So he’s still saying ‘yes’ to your prayer. Unless you sin in achieving it of course, and it’s usually pretty easy to figure out when you’re doing just that.

 

[Conservative]

Dear dang71 -

To save space, I’ll just point out your replies No. 16 and 17. They are the way I feel, too. Just wanting to know what the right answer - the right things to do - i.e., GOD’s Will. I’ve been in a place over the past two years spiritually and emotionally, where I had to make decisions for two peoples’ lives - on my own - where I’d formerly had guidance. Suddenly, my decisions would affect their lives, and I was clueless. Since 2006 - I found myself on my knees on the hardwood floors in the mornings before leaving for a hospital or subacute - praying to Our Lord - asking what to do. I didn’t hear Him answer out loud. Once, for instance, the phone rang about the time I’d been kneeling before a Crucifix, and hearing who the caller was almost made me think this call might be a gift, if not an answer, from God - for whatever the reason.

Everything I did, had to be with His Guidance since I was alone - totally alone - and really did not know what I was doing - and yet my free will combined with lack of medical intelligence may have caused me to make mistakes (or not) in decisions along the way. But I never stopped asking God for help and for forgiveness in the decisionmaking, if I made mistakes. Even though the clouds of Heaven didn’t open with an answer (at least not that I recognized), I know God heard every word and saw me every day begging for answers. I know He saw that I was relying on the only Ones who could help me - my Divine Father and His Son and His Holy Mother in Heaven.

I tell you all this - because there are times when we are hurting for answers that are crucial - needed immediately - and we can only put it before God, ask His Help - BEG for His Help (believe me, I did) - and place our trust in Him. There can be no futility in that form of prayer.

 

[wina]

Just a little hint - if you pray for something to happen and it happens, that’s God telling you yes. If you pray for something to happen and it doesn’t happen that is God telling you either ‘no’ or ‘not now’.
.

That’s what I want to say, God always answers the prayers, the answers yes, no or be patient because the time isn’t right yet.
And many times, we can’t see God’s answers because there are covered by our desires.

 

[wina]

How do we know God’s will for us? It is a good and important question.
A few Sundays ago, my pastor talked about loving our neighbors and following God’s commandments. He said by doing so, we are doing God’s will.

That is a true basic guideline. If we love God and love our neighbors, we are indeed doing God’s will. But how about the specifics, you asked. Well, before we can figure out the specifics, we must fulfill the general first. I believe to know God’s will is to do with our relationship with God. When two persons are deeply in love, often times they don’t have to say things out loud. With an exchange of glance, they catch the other’s intention.

It works the same way with God. When we are deeply in love with the Beloved, we know His heart, we know His voice. So, develop a close relationship with God first, then you will discern His will easier. If you are distant from him, how could you hear him when He speaks?

Now, God gives each of us common sense and human wisdom. We have to utilize our God given wisdom and our reasoning to make a good decision. For example, if you get two job offers, which one to take? If God opened both doors for you, and gave you favor from both companies, then they both are in God’s permissive will. It depends on your **prayerful **decision to take one. Does God know which one will be better for you? Sure. If you choose the lesser one, will things still work out? Yes, you may take a detour from the better route, but God is always with you, He continues to guide guard and walk with you.

In your initial post, you said you have never received any answered prayers. I wonder how that could be? For example, if you pray for health and protection for you and your loved ones, and you are all well, isn’t that an answered prayer? If you look closer with a grateful heart, you will find many answered prayers and blessings. How do you think for a relationship to work out if the essence of gratitude is absent? I am not saying you are ungrateful. It is just your initial statement sounds that you ought to look closer.

Anyway, to hear God’s voice and know his will is to do with our relationship with God. Whoever wants to hear God more clearly should start from cultivating the relationship with God.

Hope this helps a little.

Good answer…the most important is the relationship with God and with others…

 

[dilan]

I’m one of those who will definately say that prayer works, but why? And how does God answer my prayers?

One thing’s for sure, I’ve never heard His voice so He has to communicate in other ways. What has helped me the most, and also brought me closer to God, is - silence. Like IrishAm I’ve had to learn to sit silently in the presence of God. That has really been of great help.

In order to be all quiet I have to surrender everything to Him, trustingly. And I can do that because He’s my Almighty Father. This gives my mind a foundation of trust and gratitude, a good place to start.

When I leave my own words behind for a while, He sometimes makes me remember a sentence from the Bible, the Divine Office, or maybe from a book I’ve recently read. This often surprises me as it sometimes seems far fetched in the beginning, and then, when I think about it, gives what’s on my mind a new dimension.

Or He may work in more subtle ways. During the day I’m often too busy to notice, but if I quietly and prayerfully look back at the end of the day, I might understand the significance of things. Like how getting surprise breakfast in bed is part of an answer to my prayerful concerns about our marriage - or I might see that I’ve come a long way, but with almost insignificant steps every day , in a personal struggle I’ve brought up in prayer for a long time.

In addition to silence the other thing that really helps me is - reading. I’m often happily surprised by God’s good promises to us and His caring concern for us, as I’m being reminded of this through reading.

 

[richardwy]

Since I don’t know you, I can only speak from personal experience. Several years ago, when I felt the same as you – a total absence of God in my life – it wasn’t because God wasn’t in my life. It was because I failed to recognize Him in my life.

My experience too.

God has never held out on me. Never played hide and seek. Never been far from me when I run to him with my whole heart.

Not talking about the quick fix. Talking about the real deal.

He is more gracious, more faithful, more true, more merciful than anything.

For what it’s worth, I don’t pray for “stuff” or my own welfare. I pray lots.

 

[mangy_dog]

for myself, and i think for most people, i just want to know that what i am doing is the right thing. and if i am not doing the right thing, i would like to know it, and so be able to change it. i just want to be comfortable knowing i am on the right track, or at least working towards getting on the right track. the silence i hear, and the absence i feel, only fills me with fear and dread. it is the uncertainty of my position that causes me to despair, not knowing if what i am doing is pleasing to God, or if i am riding the racehorse to hell. it is the uncertainty that causes me to question and inspect everything, but never coming up with a real answer. i don’t expect things to be easy, and i most certainly understand that it wont be, but the inability to take comfort in the knowledge that i am at least heading in the right direction is very discouraging and disheartening. is the absence i feel a sign that i am on the right track, or is it a sign that i am in the elevator traveling downwards? is there really a way to know the true answer to that question in this life? i don’t know.

Dang, Dang, Dang…

When it comes to prayer, there are no coincidences.

What you call “coincidence” is God’s answer to you. Walking in “darkness” or “not knowing” is the stuff of faith.

Take the example of a child…a small child. You take the child and put him or her up high somewhere and you tell him or her to jump - that you’ll catch 'em.

What does the child do?..He jumps! Does the child consider the height to weight ratio or the drag coefficent? Does the child analyze Newton’s law of gravity or the physiology of an adult male musculature? No! the child jumps.

The uncertainties of whether or not God is going to answer, not answer, give, grant, favor, catch you or let you fall are characteristic to our nature.

Father knows best. If its good for you and it is in His time…you’ll recieve an answer or a result. Don’t diminish His answer by calling it a coincidence.

He knows your heart. I have a funny feeling that you, my friend, have a good, close relationship with God.

So remember - it is easy to believe in God…its a whole other thing to believe God. So, believe that He is answering you. And when He is silent it is important to realize that you “find God in the stillness and the quiet”.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[tessi]

it is the uncertainty of my position that causes me to despair, not knowing if what i am doing is pleasing to God, or if i am riding the racehorse to hell. it is the uncertainty that causes me to question and inspect everything, but never coming up with a real answer.

I feel just the same. It’s very hard for me to go wandering about without knowing if I’m doing the right thing in my choices. But I think that most people go through the same thing, I often think that the Holy Virgin probably after the message from the angel never received any other light to guide her and she would be wondering “what is the right way to raise Jesus?” “should I give him special food?” “should I send him to the best rabbi?” and she just had to go by her instincts about it.

 

[Tigg]

I once heard that we should pray, not because we love prayer, but because we love God and we wish to please him. Further, we are no judge of our own prayer.

If we are distracted in a hundred different ways, have been interrupted by children needing us, are listening to the last song we heard on the radio in our heads, are aware of our physical discomfort, are itching to get on with the day, are irritated at ourselves because we cannot seem to focus, we may certainly believe we did not pray. I think the trick is to be faithful to the practice of prayer and leave the rest to God to sort out.

Prayer is certainly a discipline, and speaking just for myself, I am an unruly child. And certainly our emotions should be no judge of our prayer life either. Do I feel holy after prayer because in my mind my prayer was righteous and I asked for the correct things, or do I feel it a waste of time because all I thought about (much to my chagrin) was the upcoming vacation plans. Both of my personal assessments may not match God’s at all.

In contemplative circles, we are taught to only “be.” Have I made myself accessible to God by sitting in silence listening to His small whisper, even if I do not believe I heard it at all?

I think God only asks for our earnest effort to pray and certainly understands our human weakness.

Here is a quote to inspire from St. Padre Pio:
Those who pray, have hope.

Those who pray little, are in great danger.

Those who do not pray, are lost!

 

[adelaida_i]

for myself, and i think for most people, i just want to know that what i am doing is the right thing. and if i am not doing the right thing, i would like to know it, and so be able to change it. i just want to be comfortable knowing i am on the right track, or at least working towards getting on the right track. the silence i hear, and the absence i feel, only fills me with fear and dread. it is the uncertainty of my position that causes me to despair, not knowing if what i am doing is pleasing to God, or if i am riding the racehorse to hell. it is the uncertainty that causes me to question and inspect everything, but never coming up with a real answer. i don’t expect things to be easy, and i most certainly understand that it wont be, but the inability to take comfort in the knowledge that i am at least heading in the right direction is very discouraging and disheartening. is the absence i feel a sign that i am on the right track, or is it a sign that i am in the elevator traveling downwards? is there really a way to know the true answer to that question in this life? i don’t know.

Dear Dang,

I was thinking this way when I just become Christian. I would have done everything to know myself right comparing to God’s standards. Only one thing, Jesus didn’t die for us to gain a better position to accuse us!
Follow your conscience, and search to follow the Church teachings! Do not be afraid, the path of salvation is not a path of fear, on contrary! Read the Encyclicals of pope Benedict, his discourses, are all full of hope.
As for the answer to prayer, do not expect to hear the voice of God. God answers in the all day reality, through people He brings near you, through events, sometimes through the words of a book you find by case.
And find yourself a confessor, a spiritual counselor. He will help you not to make so many scruples, but to go forward.
With love in Christ,

Adelaida

 

[Grandpop]

Just last week I attended a Catholic Education class for adults, and my concept of prayer was turned inside out! It started out with the fact that sin does NOT affect, or hurt, God - since He is infinitely perfect in nature.

This was followed by the point that our prayers do NOT “change God’s mind”, so to speak - again, due to His perfection.

It makes sense, yes, but I have always felt that our pleas to God through prayer can certainly affect Him. I always felt that He loves the fact that “I asked”, and He will respond as a father would to his own son. I asked questions about this “dilemma” within me, and was told that God is the “Perfect Lover”, Who will never decieve us, hate us, abandon us, etc. Our job is to open ourselves up as a 'perfect lover" in return. Complete reliance on God will open up a shower of gifts to us.

Illuminating, but confusing…any ideas to console me?

 

[Tigg]

Just last week I attended a Catholic Education class for adults, and my concept of prayer was turned inside out! It started out with the fact that sin does NOT affect, or hurt, God - since He is infinitely perfect in nature.

This was followed by the point that our prayers do NOT “change God’s mind”, so to speak - again, due to His perfection.

It makes sense, yes, but I have always felt that our pleas to God through prayer can certainly affect Him. I always felt that He loves the fact that “I asked”, and He will respond as a father would to his own son. I asked questions about this “dilemma” within me, and was told that God is the “Perfect Lover”, Who will never decieve us, hate us, abandon us, etc. Our job is to open ourselves up as a 'perfect lover" in return. Complete reliance on God will open up a shower of gifts to us.

Illuminating, but confusing…any ideas to console me?

I think I understand the theology of where this person giving the class was coming from (on God’s perfection), however, this concept doesn’t quite go along with the parable of the one who continually bangs on the door in the middle of the night in order to get bread for a friend (Luke 11:5)…the scripture ends with “I tell you if he does not get up to give him the loaves because of their friendship, he will get up to give him whatever he needs because of his persistence.” This is one of the most famous teachings on prayer in the Bible, which tells us to persevere. Of course, we must always and foremost pray, “If it be Your will!”

If our prayers (after praying “Your will be done”) do not change God’s “mind” right away, why are we then told to persevere? And look at St. Monica who prayed for the conversion of her son for 20 years!

Sorry, that doesn’t help much, does it? Now I’d like to know WHO was giving this class.

 

[Lamb_Serenade]

I think I understand the theology of where this person giving the class was coming from (on God’s perfection), however, this concept doesn’t quite go along with the parable of the one who continually bangs on the door in the middle of the night in order to get bread for a friend (Luke 11:5)…the scripture ends with “I tell you if he does not get up to give him the loaves because of their friendship, he will get up to give him whatever he needs because of his persistence.” This is one of the most famous teachings on prayer in the Bible, which tells us to persevere. Of course, we must always and foremost pray, “If it be Your will!”

If our prayers (after praying “Your will be done”) do not change God’s “mind” right away, why are we then told to persevere? And look at St. Monica who prayed for the conversion of her son for 20 years!

Sorry, that doesn’t help much, does it? Now I’d like to know WHO was giving this class.

This is exactly what my thoughts were as I read Grandpops’ post. I also thought of the parable of the widow and the Judge (Luke 18:1).

On the personal side of this, my husband was a non practicing Catholic from a family who had lapsed when he was a child. It was 23 years of prayer and living the example of being a good and faithful Catholic before he reverted. Now he goes to Mass every Sunday, and is better about Holy Days than I am, a cradle Catholic.

I also submit a prayer to you I found some time ago, and it has helped me many times in my prayer life.

** Prayer of Abandonment**
Father, I abandon myself into Your hands;
do with me what You will.
Whatever You may do I thank You.
I am ready for all, I accept all.
Let only Your will be done in me,
as in all Your creatures,
I ask no more than this, my Lord.
Into Your hands I commend my soul;
I offer it to You with all the love of my heart.
For I love You, my God,
and so need to give myself
- to surrender myself into Your hands,
without reserve and with total confidence,
for You are my Father.

 

[Grandpop]

Thanks to both of you. At least I don’t feel alone in my perceptions.

A Catholic priest, extremely conservative and intelligent, is conducting this class, and perhaps I am jumping the gun on my understanding of his definition. He did say that some of my questions on prayer will be answered as the lessons continue; subjects- Incarnation, Baptism, Eucharist, Revelation.

But as both of you point out, the examples of prayer and the response of God is clearly described in the Bible. Didn’t Abraham bargain with God over the destruction of Sodom? And didn’t God agree to an ever dwindling number of people to be saved because He loved Abraham?

Surely we all know that God knows our needs long before we do, so our prayers are not “news” to Him. I still believe that we can “influence” God’s response to us without Him doing something against His nature, right?

I have a class tomorrow night…keep you posted…Thanks!

 

[dang71]

so, God speaks to us through others.
God speaks to us through happenings in our lives.
God speaks to us through scripture and readings.
God even speaks to us through bumper stickers.

one unanswered question so far is, how do we differentiate when it is God speaking to us from all the other voices and noises in our life? how do i determine God is working through one person’s advice and not through another’s? how do i know God is working through one happening/occurrence, and not another, one bumper sticker and not another?

all of this seems way too easy to get wrong, way too easy to be led astray, and it seems unreasonable and illogical that God would not give us some concrete way of differentiating His voice from that of our own desires, or the voice of others.

i guess i am just frustrated being in the dark room of life, banging my knees and shins into the sharp corners of the furniture. How can i be an active participant in the individual plan that God has for me rather than being a marionette, dragged by the strings through life?

if God has not given us a 100% sure, concrete way of discerning His will, then we cannot trust any personal/individual “direction” we get, whether it is from books, scripture, advice from others, bumper stickers, etc., because it is too easy to misinterpret or get wrong or listen to the wrong voice and be led astray. all we have then is the general revelation as taught by the church. all we are then, are lab mice running through the maze looking for cheese.