The Garden of Eden

[Ed_Silvia]

either way, Adam & Eve were in a sort of neutral state, “walking with” God but not yet having come to recognize their need for Him, let alone to love Him.

Right on brother; otherwise Adam would have called out to God asking him for guidance seeing a talking intelligent creature was contradicting what God said. There is a lesson here

 

[simpleas]

Right on brother; otherwise Adam would have called out to God asking him for guidance seeing a talking intelligent creature was contradicting what God said. There is a lesson here

Adam and Eve trusted God. They let their trust in him die.(with the serpents help) So they wouldn’t have called out to ask him for guidance because they had made up their own minds that they could do it alone.

 

[Pound_Coolish]

A lot of you are saying that we would have sinned even without help from the devil, because we tend towards sin. But we tend towards sin because of original sin.

The devil’s interference was necessary because without him, there was nothing bad in the world. God looked at everything and said it was good, including man and the tree. To say man and the tree could create the first sin would be to say that good plus good can equal bad!

Further, how could a mere tree be responsible alone for the fall of humanity? The affect cannot be greater than the cause.

 

[tonyrey]

A lot of you are saying that we would have sinned even without help from the devil, because we tend towards sin. But we tend towards sin because of original sin.

The devil’s interference was necessary because without him, there was nothing bad in the world. God looked at everything and said it was good, including man and the tree. To say man and the tree could create the first sin would be to say that good plus good can equal bad!

Further, how could a mere tree be responsible alone for the fall of humanity? The affect cannot be greater than the cause.

If we are genuinely free (as we must be since we are made in the image and likeness of God) we are capable of sin without any external source of temptation, as Jesus pointed out. In fact the deadliest sin is pride which comes entirely from within. To blame the devil for** everything **is a very weak excuse…

 

[Pound_Coolish]

Jesus came long after Eden, and while we were free to choose between good and evil, it does not follow that we were tempted to choose evil apart from Satan.

Who’s blaming the devil for anything? It was Adam and Eve’s free choice and we make poor choices ourselves every day. Of course it wasn’t “the devil’s fault.” That is entirely irrelevant.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Where did God get to know us before he created us in our mothers womb?

The CCC suggests that “The Tree of Eternal Life” is Jesus Christ. This tells me that Adam and Eve might have spent an eternity or a second with God in the “Gareden of Eden”. This leads me to ponder where the garden is. Was it physically on earth, or a different realm of Gods creation? I imagine it to be a separate realm that may still exist today. Should it still exist, did we all come from this garden (where we too may have known God) and in coming to Earth did we take a bite of the “Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?”

Adam and Eve learn that the knowledge of good and evil has a time limit. Are we too to explore good and evil in the same time limits; marked by birth and death? Even our sinless Blessed Virgin Mother must explore good and evil during her walk in this life.

Then I ponder Jesus, in the Garden of Sorrows, was weeping from different realms throughout time (Eden, Earth, Hell, and Heaven). Facinationg that this event parallels the Eden.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Then I ponder Jesus, in the Garden of Sorrows, was weeping from different realms throughout time (Eden, Earth, Hell, and Heaven). Facinationg that this event parallels the Eden.

(Husband & kids came in … Randomness must be finished)

It is fascinating that our Lord, Jesus Christ, returns to a garden before he travels to the next realm (hell). Imagine if God could fold time, space, and events so they happen spontaneously. My little giraffe mind is blown up thinking about Jesus and gardens.

Back to you train of thought, what would eternity be like without knowing any knowledge of good and evil? I would have to say it would be peaceful and full of love (since God visits the garden). I don’t think we could really understand how glorious God is though.

 

[GEddie]

The Garden of Eden was definitely on Earth, as it was a place of earthen bodies and earthly life. That is why we can’t go back there; earthly life is no longer eternal.

I don’t think we ever were personally involved with the tree of life.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

The Garden of Eden was definitely on Earth, as it was a place of earthen bodies and earthly life. That is why we can’t go back there; earthly life is no longer eternal.

I don’t think we ever were personally involved with the tree of life.

ICXC NIKA

It is my understanding that we are involved with the “Tree of Eternal Life” every time we sinlessly eat the Eucharist. Other names for the “Tree Of Eternal Life” are: Manna from Heaven, Angels bread, & Jesus.

It’s through His death and resurrection that we are given it all: Eternal Life & Knowledge of Good and Evil. Thanks be to God.

Which brings me back to where were we before God created us in our mothers womb? I agree that we cannot go back to where we were prior to earthly creation. Pre-creation, earthly walk, death (heaven, hell, purgatory) then eternity in Gods presence, 1000 years (what is time?) in glorified earth and glorified bodies.

 

[tonyrey]

Jesus came long after Eden, and while we were free to choose between good and evil, it does not follow that we were tempted to choose evil apart from Satan…

If were free to choose between good and evil we were free to be tempted by anything and anyone!

 

[Ion]

Everybody’d be nekkid !!!

I do not know for how long because we will not go back into the gardens. Jesus will bring the new Jerusalem at his comming. I think humanity moves forward anyway and only took the wrong path for a while.

 

[Phil_Marinus]

If were free to choose between good and evil we were free to be tempted by anything and anyone!

Yes of course… I get tempted by Daughter in law…

Phil… if you mow the lawn I’l bake you a cake…

How on earth can I refuse something like that !

 

[GEddie]

I do not know for how long because we will not go back into the gardens. Jesus will bring the new Jerusalem at his comming. I think humanity moves forward anyway and only took the wrong path for a while.

Of course there is no going back, but the question was if we were still there.

Hopefully, in our pneumatikon soma, we get to be nekkid anyway.



ICXC NIKA

 

[davidv]

If we are genuinely free (as we must be since we are made in the image and likeness of God) we are capable of sin without any external source of temptation, as Jesus pointed out.

If this statement were concluded at “…capable of sin” it would be consistent with Church. I believe that one of the principle effects of original is that we can now temp ourselves. I don’t believe this was possible for those without original sin.

In fact the deadliest sin is pride which comes entirely from within. To blame the devil for** everything **is a very weak excuse…

I have not seen any poster blame everything on the devil. We are all free to resist his temptations.

 

[Pound_Coolish]

On a side note, Toneyrey, and all of you who think we’d still be fallen without Satan’s influence, I recommend CS Lewis’ Perelandra.

 

[mikekle]

A lot of you are saying that we would have sinned even without help from the devil, because we tend towards sin. But we tend towards sin because of original sin.

The devil’s interference was necessary because without him, there was nothing bad in the world. God looked at everything and said it was good, including man and the tree. To say man and the tree could create the first sin would be to say that good plus good can equal bad!

Further, how could a mere tree be responsible alone for the fall of humanity? The affect cannot be greater than the cause.

So., Satan, really had no other choice but to get kicked out of heaven.and drag a 1/3 of the other angels with him. Plus, since God is all-knowing, he knew EXACTLY what satan was going to do long before the choice was ever made, looking at it this way makes the whole thing more confusing LOL. I guess we are just not meant to understand it…?

 

[Aloysium]

. . . I guess we are just not meant to understand it…?

You make it clear that it makes no sense to you.
We are in a fallen state of ignorance and essentially when one gets to a certain point, it is all mystery.
Having said that what is important for us to know, is in fact understandable, but understanding, like wisdom, knowledge, counsel, awe, piety and fortitude are gifts of the Holy Spirit.
So, I wouldn’t sweat it. If you seek, the hope is that, as it is promised, you will find.
Just a heads-up: if one’s understanding is in conflict with revealed truth, it is time to review one’s assumptions; shake up those foundations, so to speak.

 

[Ed_Silvia]

Adam and Eve trusted God. They let their trust in him die.(with the serpents help) So they wouldn’t have called out to ask him for guidance because they had made up their own minds that they could do it alone.

I trust in God but unlike Adam I call out to Him many times a day. “Lead me not into temptation but deliver me from evil”

 

[tonyrey]

So., Satan, really had no other choice but to get kicked out of heaven.and drag a 1/3 of the other angels with him. Plus, since God is all-knowing, he knew EXACTLY what satan was going to do long before the choice was ever made, looking at it this way makes the whole thing more confusing LOL. I guess we are just not meant to understand it…?

To know is not to cause…

 

[mikekle]

I trust in God but unlike Adam I call out to Him many times a day. “Lead me not into temptation but deliver me from evil”

What makes you think Adam did not call out to God often? I imagine adam and eve both called out to God quite a bit, but the difference between us and them is, God answered them directly, they did not need faith…they KNEW