The gates of hell shall not prevail against WHO?

[Javl]

Hi David40:

Thanks for your post. Glad you like my Pax Domini. Don’t forget, I’m traditionalist and I use the language of the Church ( FYI: Also, since the Church has Jewish roots, I also use Hebrew ). God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[ricko]

The gates of hell, etc… That is, the powers of darkness, and whatever Satan can do, either by himself, or his agents. For as the church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the church of Christ.

newadvent.org/bible/mat016.htm

He is not speaking of actual, physical gates.

 

[Hisalone]

Now you are nit picking and playing with semantics. If you do not understand what is meant by “the gates of hell” then pray to the Holy Spirit for enlightment in understanding scripture ( and not itnterpreting it ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Not at all it is quite simple really but so far I dont know of any Catholic that has gotten it remotely right.

The gates of hell.
Gates keep things out and gates keep things in.
What are the gates of hell?

 

[Hisalone]

This is the ministry of Christ:
Isaiah 61:1 (New King James Version)

Isaiah 61
The Good News of Salvation
1 “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me,
Because the LORD has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
**To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound; **

This is the ministry of Christs’ Church:

Isaiah 61:1 (New King James Version)

Isaiah 61
The Good News of Salvation
1 “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me,
Because the LORD has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;

The gates of hell cannot prevail in keeping Christs Church from liberating those in bondage nor can it prevail against those bound being set free and going out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

gurneyhalleck1
Thanks for your posts and your enlightment on the subject of the questions.
Now I understand the effect of being prevailed by the gates of hell. I will explain this to my protestant brethrens.
Sorry, I should put Whom instead of Who, but Who sounds more puzzling and curious maybe.

Javl
Pax Domini! I like your signature…, why don’t use vernacular? j/k

The Ambassador
What gurneyhalleck1 explained is logically correct, especially the analogy about the Mother Ship.

graceandglory
Your “it” explanation is correct but the protestants will always say that “it” represents the whole body of believers, which is illogical.

Well thanks so much, David. I was totally joking with you about the “who” vs. “whom” thing. I’m a sixth grade teacher and I’m always razzing folks in here about grammar. I’m no saint myself! Please know I was kidding and not serious. My teasing can come off in a bad way! I’m glad my insight helped. I agree with your reasoning as well. May God bless you this Thanksgiving Day!

 

[Melkite_Sword]

The gates of hell cannot prevail in keeping Christs Church from liberating those in bondage nor can it prevail against those bound being set free and going out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.

Hisalone, your attempting to connect old testament messianic prophesies to the church. Jesus uses the terminology ‘gates of hell’ as simply an image of the heresies the church will endure. The heresies being born from the gates of hell themselves and attempting to tear down God’s ‘household’, the church, which itself is built on a ‘rock’ who is peter, whom Jesus gives the ‘keys of the kingdom’ to. Notice the types of wording used. Heaven, Hell and the church are all described as structures or strongholds. By building his church on a ‘rock’, Christ is demonstrating to his apostles that it will never be destroyed. We understand this as the apostles did in Jesus’ parable of ‘the wise and foolish builders’ (Matt 7).Jesus in Matt 16:18 presents himself as ‘the wise builder who built his house upon a rock’ (Matt 7:25).

peace

 

[Melkite_Sword]

Isaiah 61
The Good News of Salvation
1 “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me,
Because the LORD has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;

Read Luke 4:18-21, this is talking about Jesus, as he tells us.

 

[Javl]

Not at all it is quite simple really but so far I dont know of any Catholic that has gotten it remotely right.

The gates of hell.
Gates keep things out and gates keep things in.
What are the gates of hell?

Oh, we Catholics have gotten it right. It’s you who don’t understand. We have explained it to you, but you are either looking through it or right past it. “The gates of hell” are used as a metaphor, analogy, comparison, or whatever you want to call it. It is used much like what our Lord also said “I give you the keys” and “to bind and to loose” ( Mt 16:18-19 ).
He didn’t give actual keys or rope. Now do you get it?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Gammy]

Oh, we Catholics have gotten it right. It’s you who don’t understand. We have explained it to you, but you are either looking through it or right past it. “The gates of hell” are used as a metaphor, analogy, comparison, or whatever you want to call it. It is used much like what our Lord also said “I give you the keys” and “to bind and to loose” ( Mt 16:18-19 ).
He didn’t give actual keys or rope. Now do you get it?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Isn’t it such an “amazing grace” given to us by our Lord and our God to have such understanding? I pray one day all His children will come to this same understanding +++

 

[The_Ambassador]

I fail to see your point? Many have fallen into sin and have fallen off the bus of the Church throughout the last 2,000 years. Are you implying that since some have fallen into heresy or apostacy that somehow that means the overall Church that Christ built is also a thing of the past, destroyed and irrelevent as well? No one ever said that people within the Church will not go down a dark path or that some churches within the Church will not travel down the way to heresy? Some crewmen have jumped off, and Satan’s pirates have done some damage at times, but the ship still sails. And it drives some people nuts!

This is exactly my point.

You scoff at fallen and apostate churches and so called protestant denominations who have traveled down dark, damaging, and corrupted paths, as if somehow this is a case against Protestantism. This is an inductive argument at best.

You show your catholic inconsistency in this post - in how you operate according to a biased double standard. This is not walking in the truth.

 

[Javl]

This is exactly my point.

You scoff at fallen and apostate churches and so called protestant denominations who have traveled down dark, damaging, and corrupted paths, as if somehow this is a case against Protestantism. This is an inductive argument at best.

You show your catholic inconsistency in this post - in how you operate according to a biased double standard. This is not walking in the truth.

If what you say is true then please explain why there are so many different Protestant denomination,each claiming it alone has the “truth” and that it alone is “true” to Christ.
Thank You.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Hisalone]

Hisalone, your attempting to connect old testament messianic prophesies to the church. Jesus uses the terminology ‘gates of hell’ as simply an image of the heresies the church will endure. The heresies being born from the gates of hell themselves and attempting to tear down God’s ‘household’, the church, which itself is built on a ‘rock’ who is peter, whom Jesus gives the ‘keys of the kingdom’ to. Notice the types of wording used. Heaven, Hell and the church are all described as structures or strongholds. By building his church on a ‘rock’, Christ is demonstrating to his apostles that it will never be destroyed. We understand this as the apostles did in Jesus’ parable of ‘the wise and foolish builders’ (Matt 7).Jesus in Matt 16:18 presents himself as ‘the wise builder who built his house upon a rock’ (Matt 7:25).

peace

I have shown what Christs ministry was here on earth. It was to set the captives free.
The ministry of Christs Church is the same to set the captives free. That is why Christ said the works I do you do also.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me.
The Spirit orf God was upon Christ and is upon those who believe.

Because He has annointed me to preach the gospel.
The Spirit of God has anointed Christ and again to His believers to preach the gospel.

He has sent Me to heal the brokinhearted.
God sent Christ now Christ sends His people who He has empowered by His spirit to heal the brokenhearted.

To proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind.
The gates of hell did not prevail against Christ in proclaiming liberty to those trapped inside nor will it prevail against those who proclaim liberty to the captives today.

To set free those who are oppressed.
Those whom the gates of hell have enslaved.

THIS WAS CHRISTS. MINISTRY. THIS IS CHRISTS CHURCHS MINISTRY.

2 Timothy 2:26
26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Romans 8:15
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
• Romans 8:21 NKJ
because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

• Galatians 4:3 NKJ
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
• Galatians 4:9 NKJ
But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

• 2 Peter 2:19 NKJ
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

This is exactly my point.

You scoff at fallen and apostate churches and so called protestant denominations who have traveled down dark, damaging, and corrupted paths, as if somehow this is a case against Protestantism. This is an inductive argument at best.

You show your catholic inconsistency in this post - in how you operate according to a biased double standard. This is not walking in the truth.

And I suppose you are indeed walking in the Truth and are here to enlighten me. Protestantism builds a case against itself without my help. It doesn’t need my help to expose its contradictions and fallacies. My argument is not inductive at all. I’m simply saying that the Catholic Church has remained true to the early church teachings, the Scriptures, morality, and it has the Rock, Peter, always and for all time until the end. Your argument is that the Church fell into some vague apostacy somewhere from the early church days until the 1500’s when an elitist group of men came along with modernist anachronistic prejudices who warped the Gospel and the polity and theology of the Church for themselves. All of a sudden, in the 16th Century infant baptism is taboo, clericalism is abolished, people are saved by fath ALONE, iconoclasm abounds, people possess total human depravity, the Eucharist is a symbol or a spiritual presence or a reminder or a quasi-real presence (take your pick!), people can’t agree on the weather all of a sudden, and all hell breaks loose. Your thesis by default is that the Catholic Church is not what it claims to be and therefore deceived and beguiled people out of their faith so that a Reformation was made necessary. Poppycock. Your reasoning is flawed, what little of it I have seen.

I am indeed walking in the truth. Go back and look at 2,000 years of combating heresy, you’ll see the papacy as the strongest force against it. Look at the morality, justice, and dignity of the human person that Catholicism has maintained and the strength of will against the devil she has fostered in the faithful. Look at the protestant reformation and you’ll indeed see the gates of hell prancing around like a bastardized river dance. Divorce and remarriage, contraception, homosexual “marriage” tolerance, turning a blind eye to cohabitation and an overly sexualized culture, apathy, vague spiritualism, and all the rest. There are thousands of denominations that can’t agree if left is left and right is right and you’re lecturing me on not building a strong enough case against Protestantism? A mindset that believes the scriptures predate the Church and that one can be his own interpreter of scripture and the notion that the church is invisible, those ideas alone, which are laughable, when placed against history and what we all know to be the real early church, I don’t need to make a case. It’s made.

 

[Hisalone]

And I suppose you are indeed walking in the Truth and are here to enlighten me. Protestantism builds a case against itself without my help. It doesn’t need my help to expose its contradictions and fallacies. My argument is not inductive at all. I’m simply saying that the Catholic Church has remained true to the early church teachings, the Scriptures, morality, and it has the Rock, Peter, always and for all time until the end. Your argument is that the Church fell into some vague apostacy somewhere from the early church days until the 1500’s when an elitist group of men came along with modernist anachronistic prejudices who warped the Gospel and the polity and theology of the Church for themselves. All of a sudden, in the 16th Century infant baptism is taboo, clericalism is abolished, people are saved by fath ALONE, iconoclasm abounds, people possess total human depravity, the Eucharist is a symbol or a spiritual presence or a reminder or a quasi-real presence (take your pick!), people can’t agree on the weather all of a sudden, and all hell breaks loose. Your thesis by default is that the Catholic Church is not what it claims to be and therefore deceived and beguiled people out of their faith so that a Reformation was made necessary. Poppycock. Your reasoning is flawed, what little of it I have seen.

I am indeed walking in the truth. Go back and look at 2,000 years of combating heresy, you’ll see the papacy as the strongest force against it. Look at the morality, justice, and dignity of the human person that Catholicism has maintained and the strength of will against the devil she has fostered in the faithful. Look at the protestant reformation and you’ll indeed see the gates of hell prancing around like a bastardized river dance. Divorce and remarriage, contraception, homosexual “marriage” tolerance, turning a blind eye to cohabitation and an overly sexualized culture, apathy, vague spiritualism, and all the rest. There are thousands of denominations that can’t agree if left is left and right is right and you’re lecturing me on not building a strong enough case against Protestantism? A mindset that believes the scriptures predate the Church and that one can be his own interpreter of scripture and the notion that the church is invisible, those ideas alone, which are laughable, when placed against history and what we all know to be the real early church, I don’t need to make a case. It’s made.

So much for a civil discssion that stays on topic.

What a lot of hookey in this post.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If what you say is true then please explain why there are so many different Protestant denomination,each claiming it alone has the “truth” and that it alone is “true” to Christ.
Thank You.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Again, Javl, good points. Ambassador is presenting a model in which the early fathers had no authority and the Bible was complete and floating around to individuals who were getting ‘saved’ in the Jordan River and everyone in a loosey-goosey fashion didn’t have any order or allegience to their bishop. There were no councils, the church was invisible and stood for nothing, the pope was a power-monger with no authority and had to invent it for himself, works didn’t matter because we could all, in a libertine fashion, just follow our conscience and do a fill-in-the-blank religion. Christianity was a total mess—that is, until the great Reformation, which was more of a deformation, came along to save us all…sigh…:banghead::hypno:

 

[Javl]

Again, Javl, good points. Ambassador is presenting a model in which the early fathers had no authority and the Bible was complete and floating around to individuals who were getting ‘saved’ in the Jordan River and everyone in a loosey-goosey fashion didn’t have any order or allegience to their bishop. There were no councils, the church was invisible and stood for nothing, the pope was a power-monger with no authority and had to invent it for himself, works didn’t matter because we could all, in a libertine fashion, just follow our conscience and do a fill-in-the-blank religion. Christianity was a total mess—that is, until the great Reformation, which was more of a deformation, came along to save us all…sigh…:banghead::hypno:

I don’t know gurney. They accuse us of being fed a lot of tripe, but I wonder if they ever thought of what they are being fed? At least we recognize, know, and understand the truth when we see it. I wonder if they ever will. I pray that they do. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[PJM]

=david40;5983148]“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Matthew 16:18

I am not disputing about Peter’s role but the last phrase: “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”

The Catholic Church has been standing there for 2000 years and it will stand there until the end of times, there is no doubt about this since the Lord himself who wills it.

What about other churches?

Can we say that the gates of hell have prevailed against the continuously divided protestant denominations since Martin Luther?

Or, is there any protestant denominations that have been closing down since its founding?
I am wondering, in real world scenario, what effect a church will suffer as a result of the gates of hell prevail against it.

The Anglican is splitting because of the homosexual ordinations but the church itself is still standing.
The Catholic church suffered many scandals and corruptions in the past but it’s still standing.

Or maybe the gates of hell will not prevail also against all protestant denominations until the end of times?

**FACT: ** Christ founded only ONE Church and this was the ONLY recogonized Christian for more than 1000 years. The curent 2000 year old Catholic Church.

FACT: The Bible is a Catholic Book, compiled by those we would call Catholic Today for the OT, and the NT, was actually written by men we KNOW today to have been the First Catholics. Further the Catholic Bible was again the ONLY Bible for nearly 1500 years!

FACT: Therefore the Bible was written SPECIFICALLY for Catholics. As it was completed by the end of the First Century.

So the ONLY completely true answer to th OPQ is not “who?” But WHAT?

***The "what is the One Church founded by Christ Himself.His Catholic Church. ***

As evidence of this I offer to concise and explicitly clear Bible verses.

John 17: 15: John.17 to 19 15 " I [JESUS] do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.

**and **

**[John 14: 16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you./COLOR]

Loveand prayers,

Pat

 

[Javl]

**FACT: ** Christ founded only ONE Church and this was the ONLY recogonized Christian for more than 1000 years. The curent 2000 year old Catholic Church.

FACT: The Bible is a Catholic Book, compiled by those we would call Catholic Today for the OT, and the NT, was actually written by men we KNOW today to have been the First Catholics. Further the Catholic Bible was again the ONLY Bible for nearly 1500 years!

FACT: Therefore the Bible was written SPECIFICALLY for Catholics. As it was completed by the end of the First Century.

So the ONLY completely true answer to th OPQ is not “who?” But WHAT?

***The "what is the One Church founded by Christ Himself.His Catholic Church. ***

As evidence of this I offer to concise and explicitly clear Bible verses.

John 17: 15: John.17 to 19 15 " I [JESUS] do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.

**and **

***[John 14: 16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 ***even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.

Loveand prayers,

Pat

Great post, Pat. Keep it up.

Len

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[ricko]

I have shown what Christs ministry was here on earth. It was to set the captives free.
The ministry of Christs Church is the same to set the captives free. That is why Christ said the works I do you do also.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me.
The Spirit orf God was upon Christ and is upon those who believe.

Because He has annointed me to preach the gospel.
The Spirit of God has anointed Christ and again to His believers to preach the gospel.

He has sent Me to heal the brokinhearted.
God sent Christ now Christ sends His people who He has empowered by His spirit to heal the brokenhearted.

To proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind.
The gates of hell did not prevail against Christ in proclaiming liberty to those trapped inside nor will it prevail against those who proclaim liberty to the captives today.

To set free those who are oppressed.
Those whom the gates of hell have enslaved.

THIS WAS CHRISTS. MINISTRY. THIS IS CHRISTS CHURCHS MINISTRY.

2 Timothy 2:26
26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Romans 8:15
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
• Romans 8:21 NKJ
because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

• Galatians 4:3 NKJ
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
• Galatians 4:9 NKJ
But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

• 2 Peter 2:19 NKJ
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

We are sorry you are having so much trouble understanding what “the gates of hell” mean in the passage in question. The posting below may help you understand what “the gates of hell” means. I posted another example but I guess you might have missed it.

The forces of evil will not overcome the Church
vbvbc.org/bible-verse/matthew16-18

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

So much for a civil discssion that stays on topic.

What a lot of hookey in this post.

It stayed on topic quite well. You just don’t like the truth and you don’t like the papacy or the steady ship of the Catholic Church that has sailed amidst the heresy, lost sheep, and sinfulness that protestantism has yielded throughout the last 500 years. Your reply to my post has no depth, no rebuttal, no points made, just like your previous posts. You scoff, you reject, you make a quick little blurb that is invariably negative and contrary, but you never support with facts or history. I think you meant to say “hooey” for my post. Isn’t hookey skipping school? It’s also funny how dissenting opinions are never “civilized” and agreement with you is civil, distinguished, enlightened, and lucid…sigh