"The gates of hell will not prevail against it"

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The pastor at the program I’m in was talking about Matthew 16:18. He was saying that “gates” protect, do not offend. So in reality the gates of hell will not be able to withstand the offense* of the church. Then he said if it meant that hell will not prevail against the church in terms of the gates, then it would read something more along the lines of the "swords of hell will not prevail against it. (This program is Pentecostal btw) But I really disagree, I need some more insight on this scripture if anyone else can help - Because I don’t see the verse saying that. 🤷
 
Sadly, pastor is seeking private interpretations of scripture which will justify separation from the Catholic Church. A reliable scripture commentary, such as the often quoted Haydock Commentary will be very helpful for you. Here is what it has to say about Matthew 16:18:
Ver. 18. Kago. And I say to thee, and tell thee why I before declared, (John i. 42.) that thou shouldst be called Peter, for thou art constituted the rock upon which, as a foundation, I will build my Church, and that so firmly, as not to suffer the gates (i.e. the powers) of hell to prevail against its foundation; because if they overturn its foundation, (i.e. thee and thy successors) they will overturn also the Church that rests upon it. Christ therefore here promises to Peter, that he and his successors should be to the end, as long as the Church should last, its supreme pastors and princes. (Tirinus) — In the Syriac tongue, which is that which Jesus Christ spoke, there is no difference of genders, as there is in Latin, between petra, a rock, and Petrus, Peter; hence, in the original language, the allusion was both more natural and more simple. (Bible de Vence) — Thou art Peter;[2] and upon this (i.e. upon thee, according to the literal and general exposition of the ancient Fathers) I will build my church. It is true St. Augustine, in one or two places, thus expounds these words, and upon this rock, (i.e. upon myself: ) or upon this rock, which Peter hath confessed: yet he owns that he had also given the other interpretation, by which Peter himself was the rock. Some Fathers have also expounded it, upon the faith, which Peter confessed; but then they take not faith, as separated from the person of Peter, but on Peter, as holding the true faith. No one questions but that Christ himself is the great foundation-stone, the chief corner-stone, as St. Paul tells the Ephesians; (Chap. ii, ver. 20.) but it is also certain, that all the apostles may be called foundation-stones of the Church, as represented Apocalypse xxi. 14. In the mean time, St. Peter (called therefore Cephas, a rock) was the first and chief foundation-stone among the apostles, on whom Christ promised to build his Church. (Witham) — Thou art Peter, &c. As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ, so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him: viz. that he, to whom he had already given the name of Peter, signifying a rock, (John i. 42.) should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be next to Christ himself, the chief foundation-stone, in quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all fulness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of heaven. — Upon this rock, &c. The words of Christ to Peter, spoken in the vulgar language of the Jews, which our Lord made use of, were the same as if he had said in English, Thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my church. So that, by the plain course of the words, Peter is here declared to be the rock, upon which the church was to be built; Christ himself being both the principal foundation and founder of the same. Where also note, that Christ by building his house, that is, his Church, upon a rock, has thereby secured it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder. (Matthew vii. 24, 25.) — The gates of hell, &c. That is, the powers of darkness, and whatever Satan can do, either by himself or his agents. For as the Church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, i.e. the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or Church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the Church of Christ. (Challoner) — The gates, in the Oriental style, signify the powers; thus, to this day, we designate the Ottoman or Turkish empire by the Ottoman port. The princes were wont to hold their courts at the gates of the city. (Bible de Vence)
Is this a Trinitarian Pentecostal pastor? Many Pentecostals do not believe in the Trinity - which would be the other caution. If this is a scripture study, I would avoid it, as they rely solely on private interpretation outside of the authority of the Church. You have already noted that what he is teaching sounds odd. There is a good reason for that.
 
RaiseMeUp, I’ve heard Catholic apologists say the same thing, but I have yet to find support for it in the Fathers.

From Haydock’s commentary (1859):

The gates, in the Oriental style, signify the powers; thus, to this day, we designate the Ottoman or Turkish empire by the Ottoman port. The princes were wont to hold their courts at the gates of the city. (Bible de Vence)

From the Catena Aurea of St. Thomas:

Jerome: I suppose the gates of hell to mean vice and sin, or at least the doctrines of heretics by which men are ensnared and drawn into hell.

Origen: But in heavenly things every spiritual sin is a gate of hell, to which are opposed the gates of righteousness.

Raban.: The gates of hell are the torments and promises of the persecutors. Also, the evil works of the unbelievers, and vain conversation, are gates of hell, because they shew the path of destruction.
 
Thank you for that - that was very helpful. Yes, they believe in the Trinity. Unfortunately, I am in a position that I am required to complete this program. On one hand - it can be difficult being Catholic (though I’m not the only one, just only very obvious outward one I guess - meaning I don’t hide the fact like some others do) and on the other hand there are some I get along with great. I even sat and had a private session with the pastor - and he was very cool. I was expecting what usually happens when I get into this type of discussion (I had a petition signed against me, I was accused of blasphemy and idolatry, etc) But he was very cool - We agreed to disagree on some things. But I cant help but point out that theres a lot of contradiction in his teachings… This post is a great example. He will tell people only when you read the Bible in context will you understand the true meaning of what its saying - okay - but what context??? Who’s context?? I feel as if hes saying read it in MY context and you’ll understand - and I cant help it - as much respect I have for him - sometimes I’m repulsed at what hes teaching - like an allergy :eek:
 
Thank you for that - that was very helpful. Yes, they believe in the Trinity. Unfortunately, I am in a position that I am required to complete this program. On one hand - it can be difficult being Catholic (though I’m not the only one, just only very obvious outward one I guess - meaning I don’t hide the fact like some others do) and on the other hand there are some I get along with great. I even sat and had a private session with the pastor - and he was very cool. I was expecting what usually happens when I get into this type of discussion (I had a petition signed against me, I was accused of blasphemy and idolatry, etc) But he was very cool - We agreed to disagree on some things. But I cant help but point out that theres a lot of contradiction in his teachings… This post is a great example. He will tell people only when you read the Bible in context will you understand the true meaning of what its saying - okay - but what context??? Who’s context?? I feel as if hes saying read it in MY context and you’ll understand - and I cant help it - as much respect I have for him - sometimes I’m repulsed at what hes teaching - like an allergy :eek:
Some organizations consider “context” to be in conjunction only with the preceding and following verses. How on earth is one to extract context from three verses? You could really use a solid Catholic study bible, like the Ignatius (NT only) or the Navarre ($). I would avoid the NAB study bible, as its notes and intros are quite questionable. Yet, the on-line Haydock Commentary should still greatly assist you.
 
I would avoid the NAB study bible, as its notes and intros are quite questionable.
Lol - Thats the one I have. Yes I see what you mean by some questionable notes but nevertheless, it is still pretty useful. But I will check that out Haydock Commentary . Thank you. 👍
 
The pastor at the program I’m in was talking about Matthew 16:18. He was saying that “gates” protect, do not offend. So in reality the gates of hell will not be able to withstand the offense* of the church. Then he said if it meant that hell will not prevail against the church in terms of the gates, then it would read something more along the lines of the "swords of hell will not prevail against it. (This program is Pentecostal btw) But I really disagree, I need some more insight on this scripture if anyone else can help - Because I don’t see the verse saying that. 🤷
The Jerusalem Temple was built on the temple mound, a rock, where tradition has it, covers the gates of hell. Jesus, in building his Church on the Rock (Peter’s name transliterated into English), building it on Peter, said that Peter and the Petrine Office are now the rock that is on top of the gates of hell, holding us free from hell, and that Peter, and the Petrine Office at the center of the Church, would never be overcome in keeping us solid in faith and morals, in spite of any shortcomings in holders of that office. The Church replaces the Temple as the place where God is present for his people, and the Petrine Office is the Rock, the Peter, the Temple Mound where this new Temple (the Church) sits.

John Martin
 
Thank you for that - that was very helpful. Yes, they believe in the Trinity. Unfortunately, I am in a position that I am required to complete this program. On one hand - it can be difficult being Catholic (though I’m not the only one, just only very obvious outward one I guess - meaning I don’t hide the fact like some others do) and on the other hand there are some I get along with great. I even sat and had a private session with the pastor - and he was very cool. I was expecting what usually happens when I get into this type of discussion (I had a petition signed against me, I was accused of blasphemy and idolatry, etc) But he was very cool - We agreed to disagree on some things. But I cant help but point out that theres a lot of contradiction in his teachings… This post is a great example. He will tell people only when you read the Bible in context will you understand the true meaning of what its saying - okay - but what context??? Who’s context?? I feel as if hes saying read it in MY context and you’ll understand - and I cant help it - as much respect I have for him - sometimes I’m repulsed at what hes teaching - like an allergy :eek:
WHY? What REQUIRES YOU? I’ve heard many Protestant and Evangelical pastors (I spent ten years in Baptist Church, Assembly of God and Pentecostal because as a child no one preached the “Word” to me and that is where I (regrettably!) first heard it! THEY ARE IN ERROR, they are subjectively interpreting scripture with no foundation at all behind them, none. Why would a practicing and believing Roman Catholic be “stuck” in a situation such as this? College credit? Who cares, forfeit the cost. Certainly NO ministry in the Roman Catholic Church would sanction such study. GET OUT of there.
 
WHY? What REQUIRES YOU? I’ve heard many Protestant and Evangelical pastors (I spent ten years in Baptist Church, Assembly of God and Pentecostal because as a child no one preached the “Word” to me and that is where I (regrettably!) first heard it! THEY ARE IN ERROR, they are subjectively interpreting scripture with no foundation at all behind them, none. Why would a practicing and believing Roman Catholic be “stuck” in a situation such as this? College credit? Who cares, forfeit the cost. Certainly NO ministry in the Roman Catholic Church would sanction such study. GET OUT of there.
I’m almost done with this program that I am bound to legally and right now circumstantially. Therefore I have to deal with it - Which is why I am grateful that I have access to a forum like this. When it is completed, I don’t ever intend on attending or participating in any Protestant - Pentecostal service. But what I will say about this place is that I do believe God brought me here to become reconnected with Him as I was spiritually empty and in a seemingly eternal state of despair. However, as I got reconnected, I started to realize there were things that did not seem right and that led me to get reconnected with my Catholic faith - so i am very grateful because had this situation not happened - I wouldn’t have so much of my life restored as it is today - most importantly I wouldn’t have my connection with the Catholic Church that I now have - So I believe that God does use all things good and bad for the greater purpose. Had this not happened I would still be out there .
 
WHY? What REQUIRES YOU? I’ve heard many Protestant and Evangelical pastors (I spent ten years in Baptist Church, Assembly of God and Pentecostal because as a child no one preached the “Word” to me and that is where I (regrettably!) first heard it! THEY ARE IN ERROR, they are subjectively interpreting scripture with no foundation at all behind them, none. Why would a practicing and believing Roman Catholic be “stuck” in a situation such as this? College credit? Who cares, forfeit the cost. Certainly NO ministry in the Roman Catholic Church would sanction such study. GET OUT of there.
ellzeena is quite correct, and for this reason: As Catholics, when baptized and confirmed especially, we swore our allegiance and obedience to the symbols of the Church (the Creeds and Doctrines) and to the leadership appointed by Jesus Christ (the Pope and Magisterium - the Apostolic successors).

We whole heartedly agreed that we found life in their word and in their exercise of the Sacraments and in our admittance into participation in this life, and that we would let their teaching, their understanding, be our teaching, our understanding.

It is just as Ruth said to her mother-in-law, Naomi, “where you go I will go, and where you lodge I will lodge. Your people shall be my people, and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there will I be buried.” So, whether this pastor says things that sound reasonable or not, we do not use our reason’s private interpretations or that of a pastor who deny’s our leadership and teachings. We listen to the teachers who joined us to Christ and built us onto his Rock. And we use our reason to understand what our teachers give us. That paster gives “opinion”, which is uncertain. Our teachers give us revelation which we proclaim true by faith (when we believe what they tell us and agree that it is what we will live by).

John Martin
 
I’m almost done with this program that I am bound to legally and right now circumstantially. Therefore I have to deal with it - Which is why I am grateful that I have access to a forum like this. When it is completed, I don’t ever intend on attending or participating in any Protestant - Pentecostal service. But what I will say about this place is that I do believe God brought me here to become reconnected with Him as I was spiritually empty and in a seemingly eternal state of despair. However, as I got reconnected, I started to realize there were things that did not seem right and that led me to get reconnected with my Catholic faith - so i am very grateful because had this situation not happened - I wouldn’t have so much of my life restored as it is today - most importantly I wouldn’t have my connection with the Catholic Church that I now have - So I believe that God does use all things good and bad for the greater purpose. Had this not happened I would still be out there .
It sounds like you are a living example of someone built onto the Rock and being safe there. Nothing has prevailed in ripping your from the foundation.
 
The Jerusalem Temple was built on the temple mound, a rock, where tradition has it, covers the gates of hell. Jesus, in building his Church on the Rock (Peter’s name transliterated into English), building it on Peter, said that Peter and the Petrine Office are now the rock that is on top of the gates of hell, holding us free from hell, and that Peter, and the Petrine Office at the center of the Church, would never be overcome in keeping us solid in faith and morals, in spite of any shortcomings in holders of that office. The Church replaces the Temple as the place where God is present for his people, and the Petrine Office is the Rock, the Peter, the Temple Mound where this new Temple (the Church) sits.
What is your source for this? I would like to present this information to a friend here who is gravitating towards Catholicism. ( Also by the way, my being so blatantly Catholic in this program has some benefits too - aside from the ridicule, there are quite a few that take interest in it and I like to show how rooted in history the Catholic Church is. 👍
 
It could also be that here we have the same situation of the “hell” mentioned after Jesus died.
Where He went to “hell” to free the souls that were waiting since the beginning of the world.
Many scholars believe that the word should be “Hades” the abode of the dead and not the Hell of the damned.

Now if that was the case and The Gates of Hades shall not prevail over the Church is that not the same as saying that Death has NO Power over His Church?

Which in turn makes true that HE will be with us till the end of times.
Also Death will have no power.

I am no theologian and neither play one on TV but it might be a reasonable explanation.
Maybe am wrong.

Peace 👍
 
The pastor at the program I’m in was talking about Matthew 16:18. He was saying that “gates” protect, do not offend. So in reality the gates of hell will not be able to withstand the offense* of the church. Then he said if it meant that hell will not prevail against the church in terms of the gates, then it would read something more along the lines of the "swords of hell will not prevail against it. (This program is Pentecostal btw) But I really disagree, I need some more insight on this scripture if anyone else can help - Because I don’t see the verse saying that. 🤷
I don’t want to add to your confusion, but I heard Catholic evangelist (and convert, I believe) Curtis Martin say that “the gates of hell will not prevail” is a poor translation and that “the gates of hell cannot withstand” is a better translation.

Just tryin’ to help!😃
 
What is your source for this? I would like to present this information to a friend here who is gravitating towards Catholicism. ( Also by the way, my being so blatantly Catholic in this program has some benefits too - aside from the ridicule, there are quite a few that take interest in it and I like to show how rooted in history the Catholic Church is. 👍
It would be the Jeff Cavins’ “Matthew” bible study on DVD series, when he covers the related text. He makes a strong point in all his studies about trying to gain the understanding of cultural and scriptural context that Jesus and his contemporaries would have had when they hear Jesus’ words.

John Martin
 
I’m almost done with this program that I am bound to legally and right now circumstantially. Therefore I have to deal with it - Which is why I am grateful that I have access to a forum like this. When it is completed, I don’t ever intend on attending or participating in any Protestant - Pentecostal service. But what I will say about this place is that I do believe God brought me here to become reconnected with Him as I was spiritually empty and in a seemingly eternal state of despair. However, as I got reconnected, I started to realize there were things that did not seem right and that led me to get reconnected with my Catholic faith - so i am very grateful because had this situation not happened - I wouldn’t have so much of my life restored as it is today - most importantly I wouldn’t have my connection with the Catholic Church that I now have - So I believe that God does use all things good and bad for the greater purpose. Had this not happened I would still be out there .
I have, as an American citizen, a real PROBLEM with “bound to legally…” I don’t know what this means, but no court in the United States has the right to force participation in a belief system your Church explicitly instructs you to AVOID. As Catholics, we are not supposed to be attending other denominational services. Your constitutional rights appear to be seriously offended in this matter. I’m glad it has brought you closer to the Truth, and yes I agree wholeheartedly that engagement (in terms of Bible study and concentration upon teachings) with other denominations DOES bring us “home”, absolutely and rightly so, praise God. But me? If some Court demanded I give up my right to practice my religion (i.e., go against the teaching of my Church to avoid other denomination’s services and teachings) I’d go straight to the ACLU. I hope you have discussed all of this with your confessor.
 
The pastor at the program I’m in was talking about Matthew 16:18. He was saying that “gates” protect, do not offend. So in reality the gates of hell will not be able to withstand the offense* of the church. Then he said if it meant that hell will not prevail against the church in terms of the gates, then it would read something more along the lines of the "swords of hell will not prevail against it. (This program is Pentecostal btw) But I really disagree, I need some more insight on this scripture if anyone else can help - Because I don’t see the verse saying that. 🤷
My take on this, offered before I read the rest of the thread:
The gates of a city represent its defensive strength.
If the “gates of Hell” do not prevail against the Church, then the defensive power of Hell fails when faced with the Church.
The Church will overcome Hell, and Hell cannot stop her.
 
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