The "Gay Gene": Does it Matter?

[Michael_Forrest]

Several years ago I saw a Christian Pychologist on TV who had that opinion that gayness was neither genetic nor totally upbringing- but had to do with the mothers womb environment hormonally- in other words, maybe gay men the mother’s womb environment had too many female hormones, in lesbians the mothers womb environment had too many male hormones, ect.

This is interesting. Aside from genetics, there may be other biological factors to consider.

One factor that received attention a while ago involved the rising levels of estrogen and compounds that mimic estrogen in the environment.

The following article appears to be accurate:

http://www.calcatholic.com/news/newsArticlePrintable.aspx?id=25291453-1c9e-46d2-8aab-05ab487fb751

I visited *Scientific American *(here: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=01DC8631-E7F2-99DF-3D0A925F84E60223) and there does seem to be a problem with excess estrogen (or chemicals that mimic estrogen) in the water supply. The article from *Scientific American *did not mention excess estrogen specifically from the women themselves (after they urinate), but it did mention “the pill” as a source of some of the excess estrogen (pills thrown down the drain/toilet). Nonetheless, the concept of excess estrogen being passed into the water supply through urine may be plausible and seems to be backed up by the following article: http://www.johnleemd.com/store/news_bhrt.html. This finding could have tremendous implications for society. Estrogen obviously causes many significant changes in the body.

 

[Vanny]

Actually,I saw this program on EWTN a couple of years ago-
I believe he was a guest on the Abundant Life with Johnette Benkovitch.
I found it very interesting, but I can’t remember the name of the pychologist or everything discussed- I think he leaned towards this being the cause of at least some-but maybe not all tendacies towards homosexuality.

For example, some gay men seem to me to be effeminate- but then look at Rock Hudson(although he was an actor and maybe could just play the part of a macho man)
I personally know a lesbian(through work) she seems very manly-has male looking facial features-and body type but some lesbianism seems to me to be a political statement i.e.the radical feminist movement of the 70’s.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I took a psychology class which investigated this issue, along with a “marriage” class where among learning that Jesus was really a “polygamist” there was one useful comment concerning the political motives of those involved in gay rights and women’s rights issues.

These two political factions are trying to prove opposite points in order to achieve the same end – legal action with respect to how they are treated, and as justification for their position.

Without choosing sides, I would merely like to comment that women are genetically “different” (no y chromasome) than men – so that women’s rights argue on the basis of the physical distinction in genes NOT being a reason to discriminate against them. And that they still have integrity / worth.

The Homosexual agenda tries to prove the opposite for the same reason – that different genes DO affect how one ought to treat them, since they “can’t” help themselves in their attraction, they still have integrity and worth in spite of performing the homosexual act – and can’t be discriminated against morally.

At root these two approaches show that the use of genes in the argument is little more than a pawn in a political agenda. Today, the idea of epi-genetics is rapidly gaining ascendancy – which is really just a way of saying environment changes the “state” of genes, so that nurture (environment) affects genes … and therefore the political arguments can go on ad infinitum. (Basic premises of scientific theories in the past which were ridiculed into non-acceptance, are re-appearing disguised … because of new data).

So, no, I don’t think it matters much whether or not there is such a “gene” … the argument will go on.

 

[RachelsAlumni]

… gayness was neither genetic nor totally upbringing- but had to do with the mothers womb environment hormonally- in other words, maybe gay men the mother’s womb environment had too many female hormones, in lesbians the mothers womb environment had too many male hormones, ect.

This is also what I learned in College. It was called the Fetal Hornome Manipulation Theory. The closest article I was able to find online is entitled "Prenatal Sex Hormones and the Developing Brain: Effects on Psychosexual Differentiation and Cognitive Function
A A Ehrhardt, H F L Meyer-Bahlburg
Annual Review of Medicine, February 1979, Vol. 30, Pages 417-430
(doi: 10.1146/annurev.me.30.020179.002221)

and this article “Prenatal sex hormone effects on child and adult sex-typed behavior: methods and findings”
Celina C.C. Cohen-Bendahana,1, Cornelieke van de Beeka,b,1, Sheri A. Berenbaumc,*

There is now good evidence that human sex-typed behavior is influenced by sex hormones that are present during prenatal development, confirming studies in other mammalian species. Most of the evidence comes from clinical populations, in which prenatal hormone exposure is atypical for a person’s sex, but there is increasing evidence from the normal population for the importance of prenatal hormones. In this paper, we briefly review the evidence, focusing attention on the methods used to study behavioral effects of prenatal hormones.

I can only imagine the cross a person would bear in life to only be attracted to someone of the same sex. To think that this was an accident of nature, a mixture of hormones present in the womb, that has led to them having a ‘disordered’ sexual identity only fills me with compassion.

 

[manualman]

From a catholic perspective, it doesn’t matter.

They are quite sure there are genetic predispositions to alcoholism. But I don’t see anybody promoting it as natural, acceptable and morally neutral because of that fact.

 

[vrlobo88]

Firstly, the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. It condemns sodomy. So, a homosexual who abstains from sexual activity is not trespassing against Biblical teaching.

Also, if there is a gay gene, then it DOES matter because God has chosen to create a gay person that way. We cannot be blamed for predispositions (handicaps, skin color, etc). If He loves us, He will accept us the way He made us.

Secondly, those in Biblical times did not have the same knowledge of nature as we do today. We are far more developed and have learned much more than they (over the years). So, some of what is said in those times is said with ignorance.

This ignorance is the same ignorance that led people to believe that the blind man who was cured by Jesus was blind because he or his family had sinned. We know today that disease/sickenss occurs naturally and is not a punishment from God.

The U.S. Catholic Bishops Council teaches that we must accept homosexuals, but that sex should remain amongst married couples. Although I commend them for getting the ball rolling, I am sad that their stance avoids the main issue somewhat (since gays currently can’t be married).

 

[buffalo]

Also, if there is a gay gene, then it DOES matter because God has chosen to create a gay person that way. We cannot be blamed for predispositions (handicaps, skin color, etc). If He loves us, He will accept us the way He made us.

As we come to know and understand epigenetics we see that environment and lifestyle can be passed on.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Another political point I heard on the radio a few years ago.

If there is a “gay gene” then might there become a prenatal test for it and potentially increase abortions of them by heterosexual couples? The guy on the radio thought it was an interesting dilemma for the feminist/gay rights movement.

If these things comes to pass then it will matter.

Alan

 

[buffalo]

Another political point I heard on the radio a few years ago.

If there is a “gay gene” then might there become a prenatal test for it and potentially increase abortions of them by heterosexual couples? The guy on the radio thought it was an interesting dilemma for the feminist/gay rights movement.

If these things comes to pass then it will matter.

Alan

If a “cure pill” came on the market, what would happen?

 

[estesbob]

Another political point I heard on the radio a few years ago.

If there is a “gay gene” then might there become a prenatal test for it and potentially increase abortions of them by heterosexual couples? The guy on the radio thought it was an interesting dilemma for the feminist/gay rights movement.

If these things comes to pass then it will matter.

Alan

It would be quite interesting if they did identify such a gene as the pro-choice crowd would be at loggerheads with a pro-homosexual rights crowd.

 

[peso73]

I thought of something as I was reading this thread, what would a hermaphrodite do??? Not a joke, I mean, they are out there, however rare, and are in truth neither male nor female by definition. Yipes!
I have no idea what they would be expected to do to live out their lives morally…It may be a disturbing additon to the conversation, but I think it is related to the thread. So, what do you all think?

 

[itsjustdave1988]

In discerning the morality of human acts, three things are considered:

(1) the object chosen;
(2) the end in view or the intention;
(3) the circumstances of the action.

Something which is objectively evil, that is evil by the very nature of the object (1) can never be deemed morally licit by either (2) intention and/or (3) circumstances. However, the subjective culpability for the act can be lessened and/or removed by the subjective elements within (2) and/or (3).

A “gay gene”, to the extent that it might diminish voluntariness of an objectively evil act may similarly diminish culpability, but certainly could not make an objectively evil act morally licit. This is true whether homosexuality is linked to a “gay gene” or whether is is merely a psychological disorder caused by a defect in “nurturing.”

In all cases, culpability for sin is linked to voluntariness. Sins which are not fully voluntary, even if grave sins, objectively speaking, may be merely “venial” due to a lack of “perfect consent” or “full advertence” in sinning. Those human acts which completely lack voluntariness also completely lack culpability. (See CCC 749ff)

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I thought of something as I was reading this thread, what would a hermaphrodite do??? Not a joke, I mean, they are out there, however rare, and are in truth neither male nor female by definition. Yipes!
I have no idea what they would be expected to do to live out their lives morally…It may be a disturbing additon to the conversation, but I think it is related to the thread. So, what do you all think?

Marriage is between a man and a woman. An ecclesial judgment would likely have to be made as to whether the intersexed person is either man or woman, or they may determine the matter uncertain.

If a tribunal determination judges on the matter, the intersexed person, like all others, are bound to the decision of lawful ecclesial authority.

They may be called to live a life of complete continence (celebacy), just as others having pathological problems resulting in barriers to lawful marriage.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I don’t think a simultaneous hermaphrodite can be stopped from having relations with themselves and becoming pregnant – so, I am wondering if were really talking about gynandromorph, or a gynandrous person – not any old hermaphrodite.

I am not aware of any human suffering with this condition which is able to self-reproduce, so I wonder about the word used…

 

[itsjustdave1988]

See more here:

Intersexed marriages
by Jimmy Akin

 

[pathia]

They may be called to live a life of complete continence (celebacy), just as others having pathological problems resulting in barriers to lawful marriage.

That is generally almost always what I have been told (I am intersexed myself). This has been problematic however as I am engaged (For three years now, since the church won’t marry us).

 

[itsjustdave1988]

That is generally almost always what I have been told (I am intersexed myself). This has been problematic however as I am engaged (For three years now, since the church won’t marry us).

I have many friends who for other reasons, have barriers to sacramental marriage. It is a difficult trial. I’m married with teenagers, and have trials of a different sort. It’s not a “better” life, just a different one. You are in my prayers.

 

[Joe_5859]

In discerning the morality of human acts, three things are considered:

(1) the object chosen;
(2) the end in view or the intention;
(3) the circumstances of the action.

Something which is objectively evil, that is evil by the very nature of the object (1) can never be deemed morally licit by either (2) intention and/or (3) circumstances. However, the subjective culpability for the act can be lessened and/or removed by the subjective elements within (2) and/or (3).

A “gay gene”, to the extent that it might diminish voluntariness of an objectively evil act may similarly diminish culpability, but certainly could not make an objectively evil act morally licit. This is true whether homosexuality is linked to a “gay gene” or whether is is merely a psychological disorder caused by a defect in “nurturing.”

In all cases, culpability for sin is linked to voluntariness. Sins which are not fully voluntary, even if grave sins, objectively speaking, may be merely “venial” due to a lack of “perfect consent” or “full advertence” in sinning. Those human acts which completely lack voluntariness also completely lack culpability. (See CCC 749ff)

Thank you, Dave, for the theologically precise version of the issue. That’s the point I was trying to make, so thanks for backing it up with some CCC!

 

[pathia]

I have many friends who for other reasons, have barriers to sacramental marriage. It is a difficult trial. I’m married with teenagers, and have trials of a different sort. It’s not a “better” life, just a different one. You are in my prayers.

I am being forced to leave the one person in this life that loves me though. That is incredibly cruel.

 

[peso73]

I am being forced to leave the one person in this life that loves me though. That is incredibly cruel.

well, I like to believe God may be even more merciful than we believe, I guess I should say “I hope”, but how are you being forced to leave this other person? Well, you have my sympathies and prayers as well, for whatever it’s worth, I can only imagine the pain.
And what do you do?
Leave the church and possibly be happy on this earth under threat of eternal damnation, or accept the church’s decision and live chasetly with or without this other, still not guaranteed of being in heaven…very disturbing options…I hope God will help you…if you decide to live chaste, I suggest seeing a dr. and getting on a SSRI anti-depressant (i.e. Cymbalta, Paxil, zoloft, etc.) they have a side effect of lowering the libido, I always feelt if I was ever called to the priesthood or anything like that I’d have to be on them…
My man/woman union is hard enough to be holy…I will say a lot of prayers for you.