The Generational Divide

  • Thread starter Thread starter gcshapero
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Entwhistler said:
That would be like saying the Melkite Church in America will disappear because one Church has 300 people while the diocese has thousands.
Click to expand...
The long term prospects for the Melkites and other eastern churches in the United States are pretty weak in my view, and yes its because of the numbers.

Churches were established when the ethnic groups came to America, but the subsequent generations spread out, many to areas where there are an insufficient number of Melkites to organize a parish and oftentimes while married to non-melkite spouses.
 
Entwhistler said:
Obviously the EF will have to shed its bitter anti-Vatican II stereotype that some of the older folks have given it.
Click to expand...
That’s going to be hard to do, as I don’t think it is coming only from the older folks. From what I can tell, a lot of the younger highly committed TLMers seem to be just as resentful. The less committed ones, no, but the gung-ho ones, I would say yes.
 
Augustinian said:
The long term prospects for the Melkites and other eastern churches in the United States are pretty weak in my view, and yes its because of the numbers.
Click to expand...
sadly I agree…most Eastern Catholics are either absorbed into the Latin church via marriage or close proximity to a Latin parish and/or lack of a close Eastern church or attend an Orthodox church and just get absorbed that way. Of course I’m sure there are several who just stop coming to Liturgy as well (this problem is the same as the Latins in this regard).
 
Last edited:
The idea that the TLM depends on older folks who remember the preV2 days for its survival is simply false. This might be your assumption based on what you read or heard, but it’s not supported by facts, sorry. FSSP parishes have plenty of young people and lots of children. Our parish has about 850 regular attendees, and a couple hundred more that come once every few weeks. Out of this number, over 300 are under 18. Our pastor just provided these stats last Sunday. I’ve gone to other EF Masses as well, and saw lots of young people there.

The FSSP is growing, there is no doubt about it. Ten men are getting ordained later this month at the FSSP seminary, a number that grows every year. Our small (by the average diocesan parish standards) parish has 5 vocations (male and female). Two of the 5 are in the FSSP seminary in Nebraska. And our priest said there is no shortage of dioceses who are requesting an Fssp priest.
 
LisaB said:
FSSP parishes have plenty of young people and lots of children.
Click to expand...
Many of those young people will leave- get married to someone less interested or move too far away from the Latin Mass location will happen.

Latin Mass has to continually refresh interest and interest new Catholics.
 
Our parish has been under Fssp for almost 10 years. It has been growing this entire time and is still growing. On holy days it’s standing room only for Mass. We have more children than the CCD classrooms can accommodate. Ten years is enough time that if these young people were to leave, they would have done it by now. Of course some will leave, but so far there have been plenty to replace them.
 
I use to live in the Archdiocese of Chicago. Just moved from there 2 years ago. I attended Mass at an archdiocesan parish in one of the near south suburbs (one of the biggest of the suburbs by population) that offered the EF every Sunday, and often on Holy Days of Obligation. The Sunday Mass schedule was (and still is)

-a morning Spanish OF Mass
-a morning English OF Mass
-a 9:30 AM Latin EF Mass
-late morning English OF Mass
-early afternoon Spanish OF Mass

My wife and I were in our mid 20’s when living in this suburb, had a 1 year old, and had only attended 2 EF Masses before this, both at St. John Cantius out of curiosity. 9:30 AM was perfect for our schedule though, so we went to this Mass most of the time for the 2 1/2 years we lived there. it was wonderful. Definitely more than 200 people attending Mass each week. More attended the EF than the 2 early OF Masses. around 200 people also attended the late morning English Mass. The early afternoon Spanish Mass had the most people, as many of them did not get up for the 7 AM Spanish Mass.

The EF would also be said yearly on All Souls Day. I actually went back in 2017, and the church was just as packed as it would be for a Sunday Mass, with all different sorts of people attending, even those who typically wouldn’t attend the EF Mass. The pastor there was always helpful in assisting those who were not familiar with the Mass. What was great about this was that English, Spanish, and Polish speakers all attended (and still do attend) the 9:30 EF Mass. It was a great opportunity for me and my wife (who speaks broken Spanish) to meet people we otherwise wouldn’t have met because we would’ve been effectively segregated at any other parish. Some people came to the EF Mass simply because it was a convenient time. I’m proof positive of that.

So the question I’d ask is this: if more diocesan parishes did this, would we not see a rise in EF Mass attendance? If it’s offered, people will go. The Mass is the Mass. There are other EF Masses offered in the Archdiocese of Chicago as well. Another is offered once monthly at my childhood parish on first Saturdays. We typically go as a family, especially since my wife and I were married in this church. It’s unable to be offered more than this because of a lack of priests in the suburban area who can say the EF Mass. If more priests were available to say the EF Mass, it would be said more than once monthly at this parish. I would venture to guess the same would be true at many parishes throughout many dioceses.
 
Last edited:
But here’s what else I’ve noticed in the back and forth going on in this thread: everything here is anecdotal. On both sides. From the veils to millennials and their appreciation of the EF Mass. All we can do here is recount our anecdotes, and realize that we come from different regions. Just because groups of people don’t flock to the EF where you are at doesn’t mean they don’t in other areas. The popularity of the EF varies from locale to locale. And as I mentioned above, I venture to say that if the EF keeps being offered at more and more diocesan parishes (and it is), we’ll see attendance at this form of the Mass continue to rise. It’s not going to “die out in 20 years” anymore than Byzantine Rite Catholicism, a similarly minuscule demographic in most geographical areas, is going to die out.

(name removed by moderator) makes a good point at post 272 above: the number of diocesan EF Masses are rising, and evidence for a decline is far from clear.

(And for the record, I no longer attend the EF regularly each Sunday in my new diocese. I attend the OF at least twice a month at my OF-exclusive parish, and the other two Sundays are spent at a Ruthenian Catholic parish or a nearby parish staffed by the FSSP, which also attracts over 200 people each and every week.)
 
Last edited:
it’s important to remember that Millenials are not teenagers anymore. They’re all in they’re twenties now. The current teenager generation is called Generation Z. Most teenagers are pretty loose with theology and liturgy, but many become more traditional as they mature. All of my Catholic friends are either Greatest Generation or millenial to early Gen Z (I was born in 1998 so I’m in the middle).

Also I’de like everyone here to remember that all the rites are valid! Novus Ordo is just as valid and sacramental as a good old fashioned Latin Mass. Guitar music (though horrendous) is just as acceptable as traditional hymns. The Church does not play favorites when it comes to the rites.
 
A_Really_Big_Cat said:
Also I’de like everyone here to remember that all the rites are valid! Novus Ordo is just as valid and sacramental as a good old fashioned Latin Mass. Guitar music (though horrendous) is just as acceptable as traditional hymns. The Church does not play favorites when it comes to the rites.
Click to expand...
You are correct, but if I can be annoying for a moment and split hairs, the “Novus Ordo” Mass (Ordinary Form) and “Traditional Latin” Mass (Extraordinary Form) are both the same rite: the Latin rite. They are different forms of the same rite. 😊
 
I think a millennial or generation Y is someone born between 1982 and 2000, generation X 1962 and 1982 and baby boomers between WW2 and 1962.

I remember trying to explain this to my dad and him thinking I meant the band Generation X 😀 who I assume are actually Baby Boomers.
 
A_Really_Big_Cat said:
All of my Catholic friends are either Greatest Generation or millenial to early Gen Z (I was born in 1998 so I’m in the middle).
Click to expand...
No Gen X friends?! We’re always left out of everything 😦 …the forgotten Generation lol!
 
JanetF said:
The baby boom actually ended in late 1964
Click to expand...
You’ll see dates ranging from 1960 to 1964, depending on the author. I was born in 1960, but am a typical Gen-Xer, and have little in common with the Baby Boomers. My brother, born in 1962, is a typical Boomer.
 
I have a different POV.

I think the majority of Catholics even in previous generations can be considered lukewarm Catholics, except now, no one bothers about putting up appearances, unlike in the past.
 
Fellow Gen Xer here. I agree with you.

Douglas Coupland, a Canadian author, was instrumental in defining Gen X with his novel. He himself was born in 1961.
 
I think we Gen X are a relatively small group compared to Boomers and Millenials. We are the forgotten and neglected middle child.
 
Baby boomers, Generation X, millennials, whatever. Aren’t these labels just another method Satan uses to divide and conquer?

We are all children of Christ, and we grow in maturity. We all tended to be a little rebellious when young, in the context of our own generations; idealists who wanted to change the world. And as we got older, we grew more jaded and bogged down by the realities of work, raising families, pain and suffering, etc.

Who is it that once said “if you are not liberal when you are young, you have no heart, and if you are not conservative when you are old, you have no brain”?

I think those categories are a bit to restrictive, I’d change it to “if you are not idealistic when you are young, you have no principles, and if you are not realistic when you are older, you have not matured”.

When I look at my kids, all in their 20s now, I certainly see myself as I was at their age. True, some of their ideals have changed compared to mine, and in many ways they have better ideals than I had (ecological sensitivity, embracing differences of race, creed, and other differences, etc.). But they are still idealistic young kids not yet jaded by the realities of life. I wish them to fully savour this part of their lives. The hard slog of life will catch up to them eventually, and then they’ll be crusty old realistic people like their parents.
 
EnglishTeacher said:
40.png
A_Really_Big_Cat:
Also I’de like everyone here to remember that all the rites are valid! Novus Ordo is just as valid and sacramental as a good old fashioned Latin Mass. Guitar music (though horrendous) is just as acceptable as traditional hymns. The Church does not play favorites when it comes to the rites.
Click to expand...
You are correct, but if I can be annoying for a moment and split hairs, the “Novus Ordo” Mass (Ordinary Form) and “Traditional Latin” Mass (Extraordinary Form) are both the same rite: the Latin rite. They are different forms of the same rite. 😊
Click to expand...
Splitting hairs once again… It depends upon your usage of the word “rite”. Do you mean, " a prescribed form or manner governing the words or actions for a ceremony" or do you mean “a rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony, culture and circumstances of history of a distinct people, by which its own manner of living the faith is manifested in each Church sui iuris." Both are legitimate uses of the word and neither is incorrect in this case.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top