The Generational Divide

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I wonder if some of you hear yourselves!

At 34 I’m technically a millennial. Do you all really think 30 year olds with families, careers, etc. are incapable of deep spirituality?

The fact that I am converting to Catholicism and cultivating/nurturing my spirituality is because I am attracted to hipsterism? Fads? Pop culture? Really?!

There is nothing wrong with being drawn to history and tradition. As a matter of fact, it strikes me as being very authentically Catholic.
 
redbetta said:
A previous poster comparing veiling to “play-church” and “silly cosplay.”
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That was me, and you’re taking those words out of the context they were meant in. I was referring to those who approach the TLM as a sort of retro-chic.

Like I said, I have nothing against people who approach the TLM mass as a valid mode of worship.

But many, especially among the most vocal ones, often don’t. Many approach it as some sort of a political statement, either of their secular conservatism or of their belief that there is something inferior about the OF Mass. And many approach it as a novel retro-chic fashion statement, or a novel type of entertainment.

These people are drawn to the TLM for its superficial aspects, not for any deeper value. And veiling is very conspicuous superficial aspect that captures their fascination. When veiling is practiced by people as a mere fashion statement, to show off and draw attention to themselves, it is nothing more than cosplay.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
There is nothing wrong with being drawn to history and tradition. As a matter of fact, it strikes me as being very authentically Catholic.
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And that’s all fine and good until it devolves into “I’m more authentically Catholic than you cradle Catholics are”. Read my example in post 35 above.
 
Your response reveals perhaps a defect in understanding personal piety and humility.

Veiling is a matter of personal piety, just as some people may choose to wear a crucifix or medal every day, or to keep the Friday abstinence all year long.
 
LumineDiei said:
the problem lies with the most vocal of those adherents who go online to blogs, forums, and social media with their opinions. For all the good the internet does to spread the Faith, it also can poison the minds of the faithful against what the Magesterium teaches.
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Actually, that’s only partially true. The ones that really leave a bad taste in some peoples mouths are those than do their campaigning face-to-face in the real world. It is unpleasant enough when they do it online, and easier to brush off, but when the are standing in front of you spouting off nonsense about how bad the OF is and how you are a bad parent for not taking your kids to EF mass, you take it very personally. I have been turned off a lot more by the handful of personal encounters like this that I have had than by all the talk I’ve seen on the internet.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Veiling is a matter of personal piety, just as some people may choose to wear a crucifix or medal every day, or to keep the Friday abstinence all year long.
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Not when it is done as a retro-chic fashion statement or some sort of political statement, which was the point I was making. That’s when it becomes cosplay.
 
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And who are these retro chic people? I’ve never seen any of them sashaying around.

I have seen women emulating other women. This is pretty common in all walks of life. We tend to emulate those we respect especially if we are still learning how we want to present ourselves to this world.

It’s very uncharitable of you to assign some sort of perverse vanity and pride to these women. You don’t know their hearts or their motives.
 
Halfway up we were talking about a subgroup of people who are attracted…not all the traddies.
 
Yes, I am generation X I think, not sure on that - somewhere in there, and yes, I totally agree. I do think the Baby Boomers are very different from the younger generations. I am not saying there are not quite a large number of ‘liberal’ (culturally and socially and politically) millennials but I don’t see them so actively trying to transform the Church - they are secular and seem pretty content to stay there and hate the Church from the outside; they don’t have this vision of transforming it to fit their modernist values. It is a quest, make no mistake, Custer’s last stand. All or nothing.
 
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TenEleven said:
Yes, I think it’s viewed as retro-chic and the young people are longing for something that never was. Do they really want to go back in time?
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Another point on this is also the fact that High Masses were a rarity back in the day. Nowadays all of the Latin Mass parishes and sites do them, but that wasn’t the case when Latin ruled the roost.

All low masses, mostly said pretty quickly with the people out the door in 45 minutes.

I’m only 61, but outside of a funeral mass, I never saw the high mass.
 
AndrewAxland said:
Not when it is done as a retro-chic fashion statement or some sort of political statement, which was the point I was making. That’s when it becomes cosplay.
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You could say that about anything or anyone. Heck, you could even say that about the Pope!

“The Pope only wears that white cassock because he thinks he’s better than us.”
“AndrewAxland is only Catholic because it’s anti-cultural, and he thinks he’s better than today’s culture.” (Just to be clear, I’m not actually claiming this. It’s an example.)
“Auntie Annie (fictional person) only attends daily Mass to make it look like she’s better than us.”

All three of these things are laudable practices. Judging the hearts of those who partake in these practices gets nowhere, and saying these things (even when not judging any particular person) gets nowhere. Sure, there are almost definitely people who do (or did, considering only one person in the Church wears a white cassock) all of these things for the wrong reasons. That doesn’t mean that we should view everyone, or any specific people, who do these things in a bad light
 
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I’ve never seen hipster trads out in the wild either.

I think it’s more the attitude than actually hipsters.

“I’m into Tridentine Mass; you’ve probably never heard of it.”
 
You know, no one that I know of at my EF parish goes to it to be rebellious, retro or chic. Many go there because they find a more reverent way of worshiping than can be found at the local OF Masses. Or because they find they can have a deeper spirituality at the EF. But not because they want to make a statement.

Note: I’m not saying the OF is inherently reverent. Just the Masses in my particular vicinity. I’ve seen some beautiful OF Masses that rival the EF. 😉
 
Yes, I am generation X I think, not sure on that - somewhere in there, and yes, I totally agree. I do think the Baby Boomers are very different from the younger generations. I am not saying there are not quite a large number of ‘liberal’ (culturally and socially and politically) millennials but I don’t see them so actively trying to transform the Church - they are secular and seem pretty content to stay there and hate the Church from the outside; they don’t have this vision of transforming it to fit their modernist values.
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Exactly right. Which, I think is a shame. The risk is the church becomes less small-c catholic and becomes more of a sect.
 
Andy235 said:
Some people want a smaller Church of only people who agree with them.
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Well, that’s really not the Catholic Church’s business plan.

Those who want a more exclusive church might want to consider the Two Seed in the Spirit Predestarian Baptists.
 
That is how we end up with something like the Westboro Baptist Church.
 
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