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MrS
Guest
and you will be remembered in prayers to strengthen you in doing your part to correct and avoid those mistakes.
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legeorge
Guest
Thank You!
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Richardols
Guest
A very fine post. I, frankly, was pretty unaware of the difference in teaching because I am a pre-VII Catholic. I finished Catholic high school in 1959 and was graduated from a Catholic college (Fordham) in 1963. What dissent was there? Indeed, what was dissent?
By the time, I was married and then went into the Service, my religious beliefs were set (as were my wife’s) and we taught our kids what we believed. All the problems you encountered passed us by.
I appreciate your telling us your personal experience in finding the faith, not lost, but never given you.
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fix
Guest
They came of age during a rebellion in the culture and the Church. While in the 30s, 40s and 50s there were plenty of lukewarm clerics and traitors to the faith, most were not out in the open. The 1960s gave them confidence to let it all hang out. They never grew up. Still fighting Humane Vitae and all that goes with it.
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legeorge
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Richard, trust me, you are not alone. There are so many people just like you! You were faithful and as such, probably never noticed the changing tide. Thank you for being part of the faithful remnant who have preserved the Faith along with Pope John Paul II so that those of us who recognize the problem have a place to go to find the True Catholic Church! God Bless!
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Richardols
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I remember the infamous dissenter Father Feeney, who was excommunicated, but can’t say that I knew or heard of other clerical treason in the late 40’s through the 50s.
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fix
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That is my point. It was not as out in the open. The 1960s gave them confidence to let it shine.
BTW, Feeney was reconciled before he died I believe.
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JJBlue
Guest
Legeorge,Thank you so much for recognizing that there may have been someone responsible for dropping the ball when it came to catechizing my generation (born in the 70’s) and those since. I realize that it is not every single person who is over 50 that caused the problem, but it seems like there is a huge generation gap between those who were taught before Vatican II and those who grew up after. (Vatican II was not itself to blame. It was good, but what a lot of Americans did with it was not good.) I feel like I was robbed of the fullness of truth. I had to leave the Church, muddle through great suffering in this culture of ours, and eventually find my way back through the help of my husband and re-learn my faith on my own.
Am I to blame for what I wasn’t taught in 10 years of “Catholic” school? Is it my fault there were no nuns teaching by the time I was of school age? Is it my fault that I got fed lukewarm, watered down, cafeteria style Catholicism? It would be my fault if I were to continue down the path that was set out for me, but by the grace of God, I now know the Truth! Many of my generation are not so lucky. They don’t even know that they have been shielded from the Grace of the Truth! So why would they seek it out? They think that they *are *good, practicing Catholics. And the priests certainly are not telling them otherwise.
I am sure that there were many good, solid, practicing Catholics of that (baby boomer?) generation. Unfortunately, they were drowned out by the loud persistence of the dissenters, and we are seeing the fruits of it today in the absence of young families in the pews, the closing of Catholic schools, and the financial difficulties of our Churches. We are a poorly catechized generation, and that means we are not passing on a strong faith to *our *children. I say ‘we’ because, even though I hope that I am doing what God wills, that I am doing better teaching my own children, I am still a part of a generation deceived.
Thank you for speaking on this, I am 36 and I too feel the same as you and and am relearning my true faith after years away from the Church and God’s grace. I hope that others on this site pray for me as I continue my struggle to rid myself of the years of sin and the terrible shame I feel for living the way I did and the aftermath of it. I am so glad to have found this site at this time in my life, I know I am not alone.
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Richardols
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You are correct.
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philipmarus
Guest
Here’s a copy of the Profession of Faith that the Bishop of Baker’s
required which that lay ministers assent to which the people in Oregon article refused to assent to and one woman quit as lector over.
The Most Reverend Robert F. Vasa, Bishop of Baker
AFFIRMATION OF PERSONAL FAITH *
“I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church teaches, believes and proclaims to be revealed by God.” In particular:
I affirm and believe the Church’s teaching about the inviolability of human life. In accord with that teaching I affirm that human life is sacred and must be protected and respected from the moment of conception until natural death. I affirm that I reject direct, intentional abortion and I do not recognize the legitimacy of anyone’s claim to a moral right to form their own conscience in this matter. I am not pro-choice. I further attest that I am not affiliated with, nor supportive of, any organization which supports, encourages, provides or otherwise endorses abortion or euthanasia. (cf. CCC 2270-2283)
I affirm and believe the Church’s teaching about the sinfulness of contraception. I affirm, in accord with the teachings of the Church that “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil. (CCC 2370)
I affirm and believe that every person is called to chastity in accord with their present state of life and that it is only in marriage between man and woman that the intimacy of spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. (CCC 2337—2365) I accept the Church’s teaching that any extra-marital sexual relationships are gravely evil and that these include pre-marital relations, masturbation, fornication, the viewing of pornography and homosexual relations.
TO BE CONTINUED
required which that lay ministers assent to which the people in Oregon article refused to assent to and one woman quit as lector over.
The Most Reverend Robert F. Vasa, Bishop of Baker
AFFIRMATION OF PERSONAL FAITH *
“I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church teaches, believes and proclaims to be revealed by God.” In particular:
I affirm and believe the Church’s teaching about the inviolability of human life. In accord with that teaching I affirm that human life is sacred and must be protected and respected from the moment of conception until natural death. I affirm that I reject direct, intentional abortion and I do not recognize the legitimacy of anyone’s claim to a moral right to form their own conscience in this matter. I am not pro-choice. I further attest that I am not affiliated with, nor supportive of, any organization which supports, encourages, provides or otherwise endorses abortion or euthanasia. (cf. CCC 2270-2283)
I affirm and believe the Church’s teaching about the sinfulness of contraception. I affirm, in accord with the teachings of the Church that “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil. (CCC 2370)
I affirm and believe that every person is called to chastity in accord with their present state of life and that it is only in marriage between man and woman that the intimacy of spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. (CCC 2337—2365) I accept the Church’s teaching that any extra-marital sexual relationships are gravely evil and that these include pre-marital relations, masturbation, fornication, the viewing of pornography and homosexual relations.
TO BE CONTINUED
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philipmarus
Guest
I affirm and believe the teaching of the Church about the evil of homosexual acts. I accept the formulation in the Catechism which states: “Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.” (CCC 2357)
I affirm and believe all that the Church teaches about the Reality and Presence of Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist. Specifically I believe that Jesus is present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity under each of the forms of bread and wine and that receiving either one is Communion with the whole Christ. I recognize that worship and adoration are appropriate, not only during Mass but also outside of Mass and that the Most Holy Eucharist must always be handled with the utmost care and devotion. (CCC 1373-1381)
I affirm and believe the teachings of the Church regarding Mary, Mother of Christ and Mother of the Church. I accept with the Church that it is fitting and proper to honor the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. (CCC 963-975)
I affirm and believe that it is possible for a person to choose to remain separated from God for all eternity and that “This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”” (CCC 1033)
I affirm and believe that those who die in God’s grace and friendship but are still imperfectly purified undergo additional purification so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joys of heaven. I affirm that the Church’s name for this final purification is Purgatory. (CCC 1030-1032)
I affirm and believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and embrace the teachings about that Church as enunciated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. (cf. CCC 748-962)
I affirm and believe that the Church teaches with God-given authority and that the promise of Christ to remain with His Church always, until the end of time is a reality. I further acknowledge that those teachings pronounced in a definitive manner, even though not as an infallible definition, are binding on the consciences of the faithful and are to be adhered to with religious assent. (CCC 892)
To these and to all the teaching of the Catholic Church I give my assent. I attest that I believe these things and, while I am aware of my own sinfulness and shortcomings, I strive in my beliefs and life style to conform to this Affirmation of Personal of Faith.
dioceseofbaker.org/giving_testimon_to_the_truth.htm
I affirm and believe all that the Church teaches about the Reality and Presence of Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist. Specifically I believe that Jesus is present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity under each of the forms of bread and wine and that receiving either one is Communion with the whole Christ. I recognize that worship and adoration are appropriate, not only during Mass but also outside of Mass and that the Most Holy Eucharist must always be handled with the utmost care and devotion. (CCC 1373-1381)
I affirm and believe the teachings of the Church regarding Mary, Mother of Christ and Mother of the Church. I accept with the Church that it is fitting and proper to honor the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. (CCC 963-975)
I affirm and believe that it is possible for a person to choose to remain separated from God for all eternity and that “This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”” (CCC 1033)
I affirm and believe that those who die in God’s grace and friendship but are still imperfectly purified undergo additional purification so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joys of heaven. I affirm that the Church’s name for this final purification is Purgatory. (CCC 1030-1032)
I affirm and believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and embrace the teachings about that Church as enunciated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. (cf. CCC 748-962)
I affirm and believe that the Church teaches with God-given authority and that the promise of Christ to remain with His Church always, until the end of time is a reality. I further acknowledge that those teachings pronounced in a definitive manner, even though not as an infallible definition, are binding on the consciences of the faithful and are to be adhered to with religious assent. (CCC 892)
To these and to all the teaching of the Catholic Church I give my assent. I attest that I believe these things and, while I am aware of my own sinfulness and shortcomings, I strive in my beliefs and life style to conform to this Affirmation of Personal of Faith.
- The Church requires the making of a Profession of Faith by various persons when they undertake specific duties related to Church administration and teaching. (cf. Canon 833) In the Diocese of Baker this has been expanded to include those who take on the ecclesial duties of Catechist, Liturgical Reader, Cantor, Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion and other Church positions which entail a presumption of orthodoxy.
dioceseofbaker.org/giving_testimon_to_the_truth.htm
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StJeanneDArc
Guest
I am also one of the lost generation. I had 12 years of Catholic schooling in the late 60’s and 70’s, and while I was taught by a number of nuns, they seemed to be struggling with the changes in the culture. When I was in high school many of the nuns quit wearing habits and there was talk that a couple of them left their orders. All of that contributed to a general breakdown in transmission of the faith.
My parents did what they thought they should, but were unaware of the breakdown in the culture and that the wider world was not supporting their moral teachings. Looking back, I realize that I was bombarded with sexual images and corrupted by exposure to other children whose parents were failing them completely. I think that had they known the types of messages I was getting daily, they would have done more to fortify me in my faith.
Additionally, there was this vague idea (I don’t know where it came from) that once you learned the faith in school, you didn’t need any more study or deepening of knowledge. Couple that with weak homilies on Sunday and you have a whole set of adults who don’t know the faith. My own mother SHOCKED me a few years ago by telling me that the Catholic Church no longer holds to the doctrine of Purgatory. I have absolutely no idea where she got that but I at least corrected that error.
It’s sad.
My parents did what they thought they should, but were unaware of the breakdown in the culture and that the wider world was not supporting their moral teachings. Looking back, I realize that I was bombarded with sexual images and corrupted by exposure to other children whose parents were failing them completely. I think that had they known the types of messages I was getting daily, they would have done more to fortify me in my faith.
Additionally, there was this vague idea (I don’t know where it came from) that once you learned the faith in school, you didn’t need any more study or deepening of knowledge. Couple that with weak homilies on Sunday and you have a whole set of adults who don’t know the faith. My own mother SHOCKED me a few years ago by telling me that the Catholic Church no longer holds to the doctrine of Purgatory. I have absolutely no idea where she got that but I at least corrected that error.
It’s sad.
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MrS
Guest
been there done that… I even left the Church for nearly 25 years. When I returned I wondered what had happened to the Church. One of the few recognizable things was the weak homilies. Guess that is why St John Vianney, along with Bishop Sheen and Msgr Knox became favorites.
Would that more priests could preach like Vianney, or explain like Corapi, huh.
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Genesis315
Guest
I just skimmed the article and when I saw the name “Chittister” I knew these people were hardcore heretics. I like how the bishop told them if they don’t believe what the Church teaches, they are free to leave. Who told these people that Catholic teaching changes over time? I’d like to see one example. Anyway, if ound a geat church that these people can join. They’ll be able to have their cake and eat it too!
liberalcatholic.org/
liberalcatholic.org/
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philipmarus
Guest
The people having these study groups for discussing heterdoxy remind me something.
My Father who passed away in 2002 taught RCIA at East Coast parish (in upstate New York) throughout the 1980s. He had to co-teach RCIA with a woman who had a degree in Theology and was convinced that women would be ordained soon, so we better get ready for it by passing on this knowledge to next generation of Catholics. This was before the CCC came out. My Father fought this kind thinking from being taught as offical church teaching as much as he could in the RCIA he taught. One wonders where these people who have “studied Theology” get their degrees from?
The article above said:
My Father who passed away in 2002 taught RCIA at East Coast parish (in upstate New York) throughout the 1980s. He had to co-teach RCIA with a woman who had a degree in Theology and was convinced that women would be ordained soon, so we better get ready for it by passing on this knowledge to next generation of Catholics. This was before the CCC came out. My Father fought this kind thinking from being taught as offical church teaching as much as he could in the RCIA he taught. One wonders where these people who have “studied Theology” get their degrees from?
The article above said:
Like Martin Luther
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legeorge
Guest
JJ, our culture has resulted in many prodigals journeying home. Just like us!! Of course, this is part of God’s plan in how to turn evil into good. Instead of being indoctrinated into the mindset of the dissenters, we have seen the error of those ways and are on fire for Truth and Faithfulness!! God Bless you and all those struggling to find their way out of the darkness of this world!
I heard this quote on the radio this morning and couldn’t help but smile:
“We need to hang together or they will hang us each seperately!” That’s kind of how I feel these days.
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