The gift of prophecy.

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What is prophecy, and what expericences have you had with it?

Do you believe you can be speaking prophecy and not realize it?
 
Dear Ceil, I checked the Catechism of the Catholic Church… but I couldn’t find anything about it. I’ve never experienced it myself, (that I’m aware of)… but it seems like prophecy would be a gift of the Holy Spirit. Anyone know, for sure?

I think there are probably many mystics and saints who have displayed the gift of prophecy. One recent example, that comes to mind… would be the 3 little shepards of Fatima. Especially, the eldest Lucia… who most often was the “voice” of Our Lady, in relating the prophetic messages… concerning the wars, Russia, the Holy Father, etc.

Sorry if my reply seems a little vague. I hope that someone more knowledgable will fill in. This is a very interesting subject. God bless.🙂
 
In the sense that St. Paul writes, it is a wonderful gift from the Holy Spirit that he tells us to strive for above all the others.
1 Cor. 14:1, “Pursue love, but strive eagerly for the spiritual gifts, above all that you may prophesy.”

Some think wrongly that it means to foretell the future, but no. Under the anointing of the Lord and His inspiration, we deliver a message for the benefit of another, as encouragement, exhortation, inspired teaching, etc.

I have been aware most of the time that I was delivering a holy message not my own, by the unction I noted in my spirit. We ourselves are uplifted by the word before we deliver it. But I suppose there may be times we can do this unaware. The Lord reaffirms our words in the heart of the listener, and therefore all of the working is entirely His. He both sows, and reaps. 🙂
 
In the sense that St. Paul writes, it is a wonderful gift from the Holy Spirit that he tells us to strive for above all the others.
1 Cor. 14:1, “Pursue love, but strive eagerly for the spiritual gifts, above all that you may prophesy.”

Some think wrongly that it means to foretell the future, but no. Under the anointing of the Lord and His inspiration, we deliver a message for the benefit of another, as encouragement, exhortation, inspired teaching, etc.

I have been aware most of the time that I was delivering a holy message not my own, by the unction I noted in my spirit. We ourselves are uplifted by the word before we deliver it. But I suppose there may be times we can do this unaware. The Lord reaffirms our words in the heart of the listener, and therefore all of the working is entirely His. He both sows, and reaps. 🙂
👍 Well said!
 
Prophecy is one of the charisms (gifts) of the Holy Spirit; however, it’s not one that’s encouraged by the Church. Although it’s usually associated with “predicting the future”, it is better described as “predicting the present” as in, if you keep on this path that will happen.

Several saints have been gifted with the charism of prophecy. One of my favorite examples has to do with a Russian Orthodox saint, Saint Ksenia. She was a widow who became one of “God’s Fools”, walking around Moscow wearing her late husband’s military greatcoat. One time, she was visiting a friend when the friend’s unmarried daughter entered the room. Ksenia became very upset, saying, “What are you doing here!? You need to meet your husband!” She hustled the young woman out the door, onto a streetcar, and down a street to a cemetery. A young doctor’s wife had died, and the doctor had just fainted at the graveside. Ksenia and the daughter helped revive the man and brought him back to the daughter’s house. Within a year, the doctor and the daughter were married. For this and other examples, St. Ksenia is considered the patron of happy marriages.

Prophecy as revelation to the Universal Church ended with the death of the last Apostle. Whatever prophecy occurs now would be a private revelation, meant for one person or a small group of people.
 
The only example I can think of of somebody having the gift of prophecy without knowing it was Caiaphas in John 11:50 who prophecies the sacrificial death of Christ, even though in his own heart he is plotting to kill our Lord.
 
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Muzhik:
Prophecy is one of the charisms (gifts) of the Holy Spirit; however, it’s not one that’s encouraged by the Church.
One needs to be careful when stating what the Church disallows. 🙂 Perhaps someone misinformed you. Here is the correct teaching from the CCC:
2004 Among the special graces ought to be mentioned the graces of state that accompany the exercise of the responsibilities of the Christian life and of the ministries within the Church:
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; he who teaches, in his teaching; he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who contributes, in liberality; he who gives aid, with zeal; he who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
From 1 Cor. 14:3 with its footnote:

On the other hand, one who prophesies does speak to human beings, for their building up, 3 encouragement, and solace.

3. But a prophet builds up the church: the theme of “building up” or “edifying” others, the main theme of the letter.
usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians14.htm
 
Indeed, the role of the prophet is twofold:

To call the people, or the rulers, to accountability and warn of consequences if an undesirable path is continued, and

To offer hope and the ultimate blessing of God to those who follow Him.

As Joysong mentions, I too have often felt called to be the “mailman” for a message not my own. Sometimes one of encouragement and hope for a wounded or hurting brother or sister; other times a message calling for conversion of someone’s hardened heart.

Like Jonah, I often feel like running the other way when asked to deliver these messages. Sometimes the word of encouragement is for someone who, in my fallible opinion, doesn’t deserve it. And also like Jonah, far too often I feel disappointment that the “unworthy” have taken things to heart and that damnation may not fall on them after all. 😊

And of course there are many times when being the messenger will get one shot at. I can’t count the times on this very site when I have tried to call people to peace or compassion, only to be disparaged as some kind of fruitcake “liberal”. I do indeed often feel like saying, as Jeremiah did, “Lord I will speak your name no more.”

I don’t think we are actually called to seek any of the gifts but to make appropriate use of the ones we are given. In the end though, I don’t personally feel like I have a choice when He calls on me for I know that wherever I try to run He will spit me up on the shore where He wants me to go. But I don’t know that I would ever seek the “gift” of prophecy, In the end, they kill the prophets. 😦 Jesus did say that we are blessed when we are persecuted for his sake. That is great consolation, but on some days I truly wish he would “bless” someone else. :rolleyes:

But then I guess it wouldn’t be taking up my cross…

Peace,
 
personal opinion, but based on not only sporadic contact with the charismatic community, but more importantly on over 20 years working to prepare youth and adults for Confirmation and reflection on the action of the Holy Spirit in this sacrament:

prophecy, as all the other Corinthian gifts, are alive and well in the Church today, through this sacrament, with not only completes and perfects baptism and activates the Isahaian gifts, but also through these personal gifts, endows the gifts that build up the Church. This is routine and happens for every candidate with the proper disposition (although for some that disposition takes years to develop, and the gifts and other fruits of the sacrament take years to manifest, as that person grows and matures spiritually).

The more important the gift to the Church, the more often it appears (and tongues being least important is not that common but still present). the least glamorous gifts–administration and teaching–are the most needed and the most common, and available to any confirmed Catholic simply for the asking, which is why we pray to the Holy Spirit routinely (or should and this is a definite requisite for anyone involved in ministries that depend on these gifts).

Every CCD teacher, every one who assists in parish administration, say parish council, counting the money, stewardship, every Catholic school teacher, every one who facilitates a small faith sharing group or bible study, the person who does the bookkeeping, the parish secretary, the diocesan archivist and HRD director etc. etc. all these people can do their jobs or ministries in the power of the Holy Spirit, which also means ecclesially (with the mind of the Church) merely by regular prayer and intention to do so, because they have these gifts to call on. In some one or another gift is more pronounced or active at any given time, but I believe you can tell those who have decided to do their ministry in and with the HS, and those who rely on their own strength and talent, and have forgotten they have these gifts.

The gift of prophecy I think is very active in the Church today.
Good Catholic websites and blogs are full of people speaking the truth even when it is counter-cultural (or counter the culture in their local church). Catholic broadcasting and other media is full of prophetic voices. Prophecy by the way means speaking the truth, the full truth, with all its ramifications, in clarity (it has not much to do with foretelling the future except to warn about inevitable effects of disregarding the truth).

I see this all the time in CCD and RCIA, when I or usually another catechist prays to the HS for guidance in what to say, how to present a topic, how to answer a difficult question, how to approach a difficult person or group, and the HS gives us the words. Every dedicated catechist will say there are times when it seems the HS takes over and teaches the class–often when we are the most tired, ill, or distracted. Somehow we get the strength and words to say what must be said: to the teen who says “I don’t believe”, to the cohabiting couple, to the parents who have failed to baptize their children, to the child whose personal problems are overwhelming him, to the teen who has no one in their family modelling Christian life.

The main area where prophecy is active is where it should be, in the public teaching, witness, preaching and exposition of our leaders, beginning with our Popes, and all the 20th and 21st c popes have been prophets in their own way, some of them spectacular:
Leo on social justice
Pio X on modernism
Benedict XV in warnings about evils facing Europe
Pio XI on evils of national socialism
Pio XII on not only liturgy but a host of modern cold war problems
John XXIII the council, the risorgiamento
Paul VI overseeing implementation of V2 and esp. Humanae Vitae
one of the most dramatic instances of true prophecy coming true in our lifetime (most biblical prophecy is also this type, dire warning of how a course of action taken by the faithful will lead to apocolyptic consequences)
JP II-one could spend a lifetime of spiritual reading depending on nothing but his works, Gospel of Life, TOB, list is exhaustive
now B16 has just knocked us with a 1-2 punch in DCE and SS. wow. we have studied the last 4 named in our CUF and oblate groups and are starting on SS. wow. talk about prophecy, this is the real deal

when a courageous bishop takes on abortionists and dissenting Catholic politicians, and social evils promoted by the CoD, that is prophecy. when the parish priest preaches the truth, no matter how dry and uninspiring, that is the gift of preaching certainly–and all priests have it if the learn to activate it, it is their charism not only from confirmation but from ordination–but also at times prophecy
 
One needs to be careful when stating what the Church disallows. 🙂
I thank you for the references; however, I said “not encouraged”, not “disallowed.” The priests and religious I know who have had experience with parishioners claiming “prophecy” have all associated it with Protestant revivalists. These priests and religious have emphasized the need to make sure that the prophecy is in line with Catholic teaching, and that the prophecy is for the glory of G_D, not the glory of the person giving the prophecy.
 
Hello Muzhik,

Maybe we are struggling with terminology. I probably should have used the word ‘dis-couraged’ instead of disallowed.

Since we are referring to the gift that the Church DOES encourage us to use, we may be on different pages with respect to understanding the word. Yes, there have been prophecies in the sense of prediction, such as those of St. Malachy, but I don’t believe St. Paul’s meaning in that epistle, or the Church’s encouragement is centered on ‘predictions.’ In that sense, I would agree with you that whenever someone proclaims these, we have to use caution and prove them.
 
Joysong, when I read your earlier post I know you are referring to the Scripture but could not remember exactly where it is.

Now I found it, here it is, that is exactly your earlier post talking about:
Seek eagerly after love. Set your hearts on spiritual gifts – **above all, the gift of prophecy.**A man who speaks in a tongue is talking not to men but to God. No one understands him, because he utters mysteries in the Spirit. The prophet, on the other hand, speaks to men for their up-building, their encouragement, their consolation. He who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but he who prophesies builds up the church. I should like it if all of you spoke in tongues, but I much prefer that you prophesy. The prophet is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless the speaker can also interpret for the up-building of the church. ( 1 Corinthians 14:1-5)
According to Scripture that is what Church teachings based on, I believe prophecy is encouraged. What is not encouraged is the improper use of it.
 
According to Scripture that is what Church teachings based on, I believe prophecy is encouraged. What is not encouraged is the improper use of it.
Thanks InLight, I see that we are in agreement. 👍

What some folks may have overlooked in my post was this important part: The Lord reaffirms our words in the heart of the listener, and therefore all of the working is entirely His.

We need to rely on the Holy Spirit to discern whether the words spoken in prophecy are meant for us either personally or collectively. Without His interior ministry to us, affirming that the words are true, we can just chalk it up to nonsense.

As an example, there came a prophet to the disciples in Jerusalem and spoke of a severe famine to happen soon. The disciples listened and sent aid. Now if the word was false, they would not have done so. Therefore, it was important for the entire group to quickly discern with the Spirit’s help whether to act on this. They did not have the luxury of time in order to test it, but relied on the inner witness of the Spirit who comes to our aid.

Acts 11:28
 
When a prophet speaks, people listen. They may have few words, but the words penetrate because they speak the Truth and they come directly from God.

Jonah is one of my favorite biblical prophets. He knew that the people of Ninevah would convert and that God would forgive them, so he was reluctant to say anything to them. His story shows how the gift of prophesy is not at all glamourous.
 
The Lord reaffirms our words in the heart of the listener, and therefore all of the working is entirely His.
We need to rely on the Holy Spirit to discern whether the words spoken in prophecy are meant for us either personally or collectively. Without His interior ministry to us, affirming that the words are true, we can just chalk it up to nonsense.
Yes, that is why the spirit of discernment is important especially when prophecy gets into the nature of foretelling or prediction. Since the purpose of prophecy is to build up not to tear down, one principal of discernment is to check in this nature. Even it is a prophecy of warning like Jonah to Ninevah, God’s purpose is to provide a chance of repentance, not to scare or to condemn.
 
Speaking of Jonah, this story shows another example of probable inner witness from God to the hearts of the King and the Ninevites. Had Jonah been just another self-proclaimed seer, they would have laughed him to scorn as a mad man, but something else was at work besides the mere words of a messenger.

God indeed backed up Jonah’s words in their hearts, and the people heeded the message. When we speak for God, we are not responsible for these words. God is.
 
I agree with you all that prophecy can definitely involve speaking words to build other people up, encourage them, etc. It inspires and expresses the word of the Lord in our time, even if the prophet doesn’t always (or even often) declare what he hears and is urging to be God’s voice. It definitely does not have to be prediction. It is relating God’s words.

In emphasizing this aspect of prophecy, however, we should be careful not to discard the prediction element that can exist in prophecy too. For instance, Joseph received prophecies that foretold the future, telling him that Egypt would experience seven years of plenty and seven of famine, and the Lord instructed him to therefore help Egypt prepare for the seven years of famine during the years of plenty. The Prophet Daniel received prophecies of the rise and fall of empires and the coming of the Messiah, prophesies that covered the major events of the world for the next few hundred years in the future. Jesus foretold his own coming death and resurrection, and the destruction of Jerusalem (which Daniel had also prophesied would occur after the Anointed One was cut off). The entire book of Revelation was revealed to Saint John, which includes enormous amounts of predictive (if sometimes confusing) prophecy. A prophet named Agabus foretold the coming of a famine in the Roman world before it happened (Acts 11:28). Agabus also bound himself with Paul’s belt and predicted that even so Paul would be tied in Jerusalem, and he also predicted that Paul would be handed over to the Gentiles (Acts 21:10-14).

So it’s clear that foretelling certainly can be involved in the gift of prophecy. Foretelling the future is one form of prophecy, but people can also prophecy without foretelling. This involves what many of you have so accurately described, speaking the word of the Lord in truth and clarity to build others up.
 
Good points, Lief . . .

And I would note that whenever one is ‘speaking the word of the Lord in truth,’ he does not preface it with “Thus sayeth the Lord!” 😛 The message is simply uttered, no fanfare, with dependence upon God for any results. As ncjohn mentioned a few posts ago, those with hardened hearts are free to resist the message and stone the prophet! :eek:

But I have long believed that an angry man is closer to the truth than one who is lukewarm. At least the anger demonstrates that he heard the word!
 
So, what I understand so far, based on what I’m reading: prophecy involves speaking a word of truth on behalf of God to a person or persons for the purpose of their
1)returing to God if they’ve strayed
2) encouragement in times of trial
3) a spurring on of a certain action when it will result in fulfilling
the will of God.

It always involves inspiration by the Holy Spirit.

The Scriptures warn of false prophets, which I assume are recognizable in that they go against the teachings of the Church.

Have I left anything out?
 
Good points, Lief . . .

And I would note that whenever one is ‘speaking the word of the Lord in truth,’ he does not preface it with “Thus sayeth the Lord!” 😛 The message is simply uttered, no fanfare, with dependence upon God for any results.
I agree that this is almost always the best way. Else it tends to look like self-righteous bossiness. Probably 99% of the time or more, this is the best way. Jesus seems to have often dodged citing his authority, and he silenced the demons that declared his identity.

There are a very, very small number of occasions when it is good to declare the source of one’s words, though, I think. OT prophets such as Isaiah or Jeremiah often began their declarations with the words, “This is what the Lord says.” So the Lord has called prophets to address people in that way before. However, I agree with you that it is definitely not the norm.
As ncjohn mentioned a few posts ago, those with hardened hearts are free to resist the message and stone the prophet! :eek:
True.
But I have long believed that an angry man is closer to the truth than one who is lukewarm. At least the anger demonstrates that he heard the word!
I haven’t thought about it much.
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Ceil-1:
So, what I understand so far, based on what I’m reading: prophecy involves speaking a word of truth on behalf of God to a person or persons for the purpose of their
1)returing to God if they’ve strayed
2) encouragement in times of trial
3) a spurring on of a certain action when it will result in fulfilling
the will of God.

It always involves inspiration by the Holy Spirit.
Yes, and it occasionally can involve prediction of future events. You left that out.

But it looks like you’ve got it :). The important thing is that one is speaking the word of the Lord, and as Joysong mentioned, it is also important to do so without lording it over other people and just about always without saying that one is speaking God’s word.
 
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