the gift of tongues

[angell1]

I don’t mean speaking in languages that you have never learned.

I’m talking about the aspect of it when people pray in sounds that they don’t even understand. do any of you have this gift? how does it work exactly? does it just happen to you or is it something you have to learn?

I got prayed over a couple times when people did this, it seemed weird to me at first, and some of my friends started doing it too, other got fits of laughter or tears. but nothing happened to me. nothing ever does. maybe I’m not open enough to the spirit, but I know not to rely on these type of experience for authentic worship.

I don’t know, ther is something in the philosophy that bothers me. also with miraculous healing. people are always saying that we should be healed if we have enough faith. but I just feel awkward when they insist on praying for my disability. I know healing and other gifts can happen, I’m not questioning that. but I don’t like the insinuation of if it doesn’t happen then it’s because we’re not praying hard enough.

I mean it’s not a magic spell, if someone is sick, they aren’t suddenly going to get better, poof! every single time. There are reasons for these things to happen, lessons we are supposed to learn

 

[Nelka]

I honestly know nothing about it.

 

[Ubenedictus]

I honestly know nothing about it.

Seconded

 

[grannymh]

I don’t mean speaking in languages that you have never learned.

I’m talking about the aspect of it when people pray in sounds that they don’t even understand. do any of you have this gift? how does it work exactly? does it just happen to you or is it something you have to learn?

I got prayed over a couple times when people did this, it seemed weird to me at first, and some of my friends started doing it too, other got fits of laughter or tears. but nothing happened to me. nothing ever does. maybe I’m not open enough to the spirit, but I know not to rely on these type of experience for authentic worship.

I don’t know, ther is something in the philosophy that bothers me. also with miraculous healing. people are always saying that we should be healed if we have enough faith. but I just feel awkward when they insist on praying for my disability. I know healing and other gifts can happen, I’m not questioning that. but I don’t like the insinuation of if it doesn’t happen then it’s because we’re not praying hard enough.

I mean it’s not a magic spell, if someone is sick, they aren’t suddenly going to get better, poof! every single time. There are reasons for these things to happen, lessons we are supposed to learn

I have the gift of praying in Tongues. Ask any kind of question and I will do my best to answer.

I assume that you are referring to the Holy Spirit gift of praying in Tongues. The operative word is praying. The word Tongues means that a person yields their speech mechanism to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit then uses the person’s speech mechanism to pray to God. That in itself can be weird. But, when we realize that it is the Holy Spirit praying to God for us or for our intentions, we can start to relax. Praying in Tongues is under the person’s control. Start, stop is up to the person praying.

Praying in Tongues is known as a common gift because everyone can seek it. Because a person is praying to God, there is no need for anyone to understand the words.

Praying in Tongues is not better than other prayers. It compliments other prayers. One does not have to be in a group to pray in Tongues. A prayer in Tongues is way better than road rage.

Usually, one learns about praying in Tongues. Then one decides if that kind of prayer is what the person is looking for. If yes, one seeks the gift.

Your turn to comment …

 

[angell1]

I have the gift of praying in Tongues. Ask any kind of question and I will do my best to answer.

I assume that you are referring to the Holy Spirit gift of praying in Tongues. The operative word is praying. The word Tongues means that a person yields their speech mechanism to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit then uses the person’s speech mechanism to pray to God. That in itself can be weird. But, when we realize that it is the Holy Spirit praying to God for us or for our intentions, we can start to relax. Praying in Tongues is under the person’s control. Start, stop is up to the person praying.

Praying in Tongues is known as a common gift because everyone can seek it. Because a person is praying to God, there is no need for anyone to understand the words.

Praying in Tongues is not better than other prayers. It compliments other prayers. One does not have to be in a group to pray in Tongues. A prayer in Tongues is way better than road rage.

Usually, one learns about praying in Tongues. Then one decides if that kind of prayer is what the person is looking for. If yes, one seeks the gift.

Your turn to comment …

thanks for the explanation., yes, that is what I was referring to

I doubt that prayer style is for me, but the couple times I have seen it done, the people just started saying things that sounded like gibberish. they didn’t give us any sort of warning or explanation, so it was really a bit off-putting.

so if everyone can do it, how exactly do you seek the gift?

 

[Reuben_J]

I don’t know, ther is something in the philosophy that bothers me. also with miraculous healing. people are always saying that we should be healed if we have enough faith. but I just feel awkward when they insist on praying for my disability. I know healing and other gifts can happen, I’m not questioning that. but I don’t like the insinuation of if it doesn’t happen then it’s because we’re not praying hard enough.

I mean it’s not a magic spell, if someone is sick, they aren’t suddenly going to get better, poof! every single time. There are reasons for these things to happen, lessons we are supposed to learn

Faith, believing in something that we cannot see and expecting it to happen, is important for healing. We cannot see God but believe He is real and can heal us if it is according to His will.

So faith usually is a prerequisite to healing though not always is. Not so much about prayers though that’s important too.

So where do you stand? Will you get heal if you do not believe and do not expect that God can heal you? For example, would you get healed if you laugh at those who minister to you?

In healing of people, Jesus often commented, “Your faith has healed you.”

Perhaps you have a fixed understanding of healing, that is, physical healing.

In fact, healing can be in many forms - emotionally, psychologically, spiritually and even physically. Sometimes it is said, physical healing may not happen but we can receive the other forms of healing or sometimes physical healing happens after the healing of the emotion. The permutation can vary.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Corinthians has a few passages on speaking in tongues.
One passage says that if people have gifts of speaking in tongues, others have gifts of interpreting what is being said, and should interpret what is being said at the time.
So the speech and the interpretation of the speech are as important as each other.

How does one know, otherwise, if a demon is not causing it, and the words said are quite sinister. Exorcists talk of people babbling gibberish.

Another Corinthian passage says if I am speaking the language of men and of angels , but have no love, I am only ringing a gong.

On healing, Australia’s St Mary of the Cross MacKillop was beong prayed to for help in healing a cancer patient. The patient held on and on, no improvement. Then one day, those praying added

If it is God’s will.

The patient then passed over.

Healing prayers, or any prayers - if it is God’s will. ’ Thy will be done’

 

[grannymh]

thanks for the explanation., yes, that is what I was referring to

I doubt that prayer style is for me, but the couple times I have seen it done, the people just started saying things that sounded like gibberish. they didn’t give us any sort of warning or explanation, so it was really a bit off-putting.

so if everyone can do it, how exactly do you seek the gift?

It depends on how you came to know about the gift.

In the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, there are Life in the Spirit Seminars which are generally about our faith. One of the sessions will explain the gift of praying in Tongues. Usually, that is the time when one starts thinking about one’s relationship with Jesus, what we can do in our own lives, including praying in Tongues. At the end of the Seminar, participants can have someone pray over them with the intention that the Holy Spirit gives the person the Gift of Prayer Tongues.

These Seminars are usually sponsored by a parish. Sometimes a speaker will come to give a one day workshop. Because Catholic Charismatic Prayer groups are obedient to the Bishop and to their Pastor, there is a liaison between the Renewal and the diocese. To find out what is going on in your diocese, talk to your Pastor and/or call the diocese for the name and phone number of the liaison.

In addition, a friend may help you yield to the Holy Spirit. The term “yielding” means freely giving our speech mechanism to the Holy Spirit. Or a person may receive the Gift without attending any event.

You are asking for the process of seeking the gift. Am I correct?

What I detailed above are ways to seek and receive the gift. This is not the process itself. In my opinion, considering or understanding the above will help you to be comfortable in your seeking the Gift. If you have a friend who prays in tongues, consider asking her or him if you could join them in prayer by praying in your own way, maybe silently. If you feel comfortable about sharing your search, this would be a good time to learn. If someone tries pressure, you have the right to say I am not ready for the Gift. Depending where you live, there may be priests who pray in Tongues.

Remember that you do not get more stars in your heavenly crown by praying in Tongues. On the other hand, it is a blessing to be able to pray in Tongues. When I ministered to the sick and dying in our local hospital, I would quietly and really quickly pray in Tongues because I needed the Holy Spirit’s help in ministry. Sometimes, we may have no clue as to what will help a person. This is when praying in Tongues is really handy. We let the Holy Spirit take over.

My suggestion, after you re-read the above, is to imagine yourself in some situation where you could really use prayer help. Do you feel drawn to the Holy Spirit? If the first prayer which comes to you mind is the Hail Mary, that is good. You may add that you desire to pray in Tongues.

What I am trying to say is that seeking the gift of Prayer Tongues has to fit your personality. In reality, you are giving yourself, that is the use of your speech mechanism, to the Holy Spirit.

Do you have to do the above? No. Often people seek the gift of Prayer Tongues at the end of an event. Often there are prayer teams who pray over people.

Seeking the gift requires some preparation so that we are ready to yield our speech mechanism to the Holy Spirit.

In reality, you are falling in love with the Holy Spirit Who has loved you since the moment you were conceived.

If you have comments or questions, I will answer in my next post. Please excuse typo’s. I have had a long day.

This link is to an excellent source book.
brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

---

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

 

[angell1]

It depends on how you came to know about the gift.

In the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, there are Life in the Spirit Seminars which are generally about our faith. One of the sessions will explain the gift of praying in Tongues. Usually, that is the time when one starts thinking about one’s relationship with Jesus, what we can do in our own lives, including praying in Tongues. At the end of the Seminar, participants can have someone pray over them with the intention that the Holy Spirit gives the person the Gift of Prayer Tongues.

These Seminars are usually sponsored by a parish. Sometimes a speaker will come to give a one day workshop. Because Catholic Charismatic Prayer groups are obedient to the Bishop and to their Pastor, there is a liaison between the Renewal and the diocese. To find out what is going on in your diocese, talk to your Pastor and/or call the diocese for the name and phone number of the liaison.

In addition, a friend may help you yield to the Holy Spirit. The term “yielding” means freely giving our speech mechanism to the Holy Spirit. Or a person may receive the Gift without attending any event.

You are asking for the process of seeking the gift. Am I correct?

What I detailed above are ways to seek and receive the gift. This is not the process itself. In my opinion, considering or understanding the above will help you to be comfortable in your seeking the Gift. If you have a friend who prays in tongues, consider asking her or him if you could join them in prayer by praying in your own way, maybe silently. If you feel comfortable about sharing your search, this would be a good time to learn. If someone tries pressure, you have the right to say I am not ready for the Gift. Depending where you live, there may be priests who pray in Tongues.

Remember that you do not get more stars in your heavenly crown by praying in Tongues. On the other hand, it is a blessing to be able to pray in Tongues. When I ministered to the sick and dying in our local hospital, I would quietly and really quickly pray in Tongues because I needed the Holy Spirit’s help in ministry. Sometimes, we may have no clue as to what will help a person. This is when praying in Tongues is really handy. We let the Holy Spirit take over.

My suggestion, after you re-read the above, is to imagine yourself in some situation where you could really use prayer help. Do you feel drawn to the Holy Spirit? If the first prayer which comes to you mind is the Hail Mary, that is good. You may add that you desire to pray in Tongues.

What I am trying to say is that seeking the gift of Prayer Tongues has to fit your personality. In reality, you are giving yourself, that is the use of your speech mechanism, to the Holy Spirit.

Do you have to do the above? No. Often people seek the gift of Prayer Tongues at the end of an event. Often there are prayer teams who pray over people.

Seeking the gift requires some preparation so that we are ready to yield our speech mechanism to the Holy Spirit.

In reality, you are falling in love with the Holy Spirit Who has loved you since the moment you were conceived.

If you have comments or questions, I will answer in my next post. Please excuse typo’s. I have had a long day.

This link is to an excellent source book.
brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

---

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

is it possible to not get the gift?

 

[angell1]

Faith, believing in something that we cannot see and expecting it to happen, is important for healing. We cannot see God but believe He is real and can heal us if it is according to His will.

So faith usually is a prerequisite to healing though not always is. Not so much about prayers though that’s important too.

So where do you stand? Will you get heal if you do not believe and do not expect that God can heal you? For example, would you get healed if you laugh at those who minister to you?

In healing of people, Jesus often commented, “Your faith has healed you.”

Perhaps you have a fixed understanding of healing, that is, physical healing.

In fact, healing can be in many forms - emotionally, psychologically, spiritually and even physically. Sometimes it is said, physical healing may not happen but we can receive the other forms of healing or sometimes physical healing happens after the healing of the emotion. The permutation can vary.

it’s a little more complicated than that. I was born with a disability, have accepted it. and even believe it is God’s will for my life.

of course, most people don’t believe that. they say that God would never will sickness or disability. sometimes I get requests for people to pray over me about it, which I am just a bit uncomfortable about. but I feel like I am obligated to accept and I shouldn’t say no to prayer. and most of these people are pretty insistent.

I am tired of being treated like a broken machine that someone has to fix. what’s so wrong with the idea that God did create me the way I am?

 

[grannymh]

Corinthians has a few passages on speaking in tongues.
One passage says that if people have gifts of speaking in tongues, others have gifts of interpreting what is being said, and should interpret what is being said at the time.
So the speech and the interpretation of the speech are as important as each other.

How does one know, otherwise, if a demon is not causing it, and the words said are quite sinister. Exorcists talk of people babbling gibberish.

Another Corinthian passage says if I am speaking the language of men and of angels , but have no love, I am only ringing a gong.

On healing, Australia’s St Mary of the Cross MacKillop was beong prayed to for help in healing a cancer patient. The patient held on and on, no improvement. Then one day, those praying added

If it is God’s will.

The patient then passed over.

Healing prayers, or any prayers - if it is God’s will. ’ Thy will be done’

1 Corinthians, chapters 12 and 14 contain St. Paul’s teachings on the nine classical gifts of the Holy Spirit and the common Holy Spirit gift of praying in Tongues. 1 Corinthians, chapter 13 is a marvelous link between the more precise teachings.

Thank you for bringing these important chapters to the thread.

I would like to finish the discussion on Praying in Tongues before going to St. Paul’s teachings. St. Paul’s teachings are like weaving in and out of a traffic jam in rush hour.

 

[po18guy]

is it possible to not get the gift?

Paul wrote of many gifts. Each of us has one or more gifts (charisms) of the Holy Spirit. We are expected to discern them and put them to use for the sake of Christ’s mystical Body, the Church. I have never uttered a single syllable in a tongue - not my gift.

 

[grannymh]

is it possible to not get the gift?

I do not believe that a person who sincerely yielded to the Holy Spirit would not get the gift. However, there is a possibility that an impediment would prevent the gift. I need to check the source book linked below.

What can happen is that a person will think she did not get the gift because the Tongues sounds are not what was expected. I have a friend who’sTongues started as a clicking sound. Sometimes, Tongues are taught by having the student mimic the sounds of one who has the gift. The student may not be able to tell which sounds belong to the teacher or to her. Often beginning Tongues will not flow like a language. Sometimes, Tongues will wait until the person relaxes in sincere trust in the Holy Spirit.

My usual advice is to try Tongues in the shower. That is probably the most private place in the home. One could sing Tongues in the shower and no one would pay attention.

One way to check out the sounds coming from one’s mouth is to determine the intention. For example, I want Tongues because that will make me feel important.

When we truly yield to the Holy Spirit, we yield with the intention of love and respect for the special gift. We quiet our emotions, if possible. We ask the Holy Spirit to guide us. We remain quiet until our tongue or lips move. Sometimes the tongue barely touches the roof of our mouth. When the movement starts, the sounds usually start, maybe slowly, maybe quietly. There can be a feeling that this is happening without our brain directing it. Sometimes, one wants to smile. Sometimes, one wants to be serious. The feeling of being alone disappears.

Going back to the idea of intention. One can start with a short prayer indicating that we are submitting to the action of the Holy Spirit. Time passes and that prayer becomes a kind of movement. It is like the intention is coming straight from one’s heart. Sometimes, when I really want the Holy Spirit to take my intention seriously, I may start with a normal mental prayer describing what I would like done. Fortunately, I know that the Holy Spirit knows that I really do know that God knows best.

In other words, for me the gift of Prayer Tongues has deepened my relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Link to excellent book.

brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

 

[po18guy]

Some Christian sects teach that tongues must be spoken as a sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit. Not so! Tongues are to edify the speaker and should be accompanied by someone who can translate - but that is an even rarer gift, it seems.

Prophecy is what we should seek, according to Saint Paul. But again, prophecy is greatly misunderstood, as there has been near zero teaching or emphasis on it in the last 50 years. It is for the building up of the Church, not about the future specifically. It can include the future, but that is not its main thrust. It is intended to encourage, to strengthen believers who need help along the way - all of us in all situations.

The Holy Spirit is known as the forgotten member of the Trinity - and with good reason. As to the Holy Spirit and His gifts, even the prayer to the holy Spirit before reading the scriptures was omitted from the preface of the approved Catholic bibles in the US, beginning in 1970. That coincided with the modernist (rejection of the supernatural) footnotes. Hmmm…

 

[1pppp]

Jude 19 u can build up your spirit by praying in the holy ghost. A book p.df. free by Dave Roberson “praying in tongues the walk of power” if you want to function in the power of the holy spirit. Well this is the way to function in the keys to the kingdom. 2 cor. 1:19-20:27 all the promices are yes and amen.

 

[NeedImprovement]

The Charismatic movement is , more technically speaking, a revival of Pentecostalism

CHARISMATIC MOVEMENT.
A modern revival of Pentecostalism in many Christian churches, including Roman Catholic. The term “charismatic” is preferred in Catholic circles to “Pentecostal,” which is more commonly used by Protestant leaders of the movement.

Modern Catholic Dictionary ; Fr John Hardon, S.J.

Father Hardon has more to say on the subject HERE , and EWTN offers information on the “tongues” phenomenon - both speaking in and praying in, including excerpts from the most complete treatment of this subject , published by the Brazilian bishops’ conference -, "Pastoral Orientation Regarding the Catholic Charismatic Renewal,"issued in November 1994 - HERE.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal has never been my cup of tea, but I attended all the Life in the Spirit seminars in our parish some years ago - just to give it a try. Though the people (some of whom are my good friends) appeared sincere enough , a couple of anomalies occurred which put me off the whole thing.

1. During the Mass portion of the evening , as I approached to receive Holy Communion, the priest said, “The Body of Christ” - to which I responded, “Amen.” But at the same moment that he was placing the Host on my tongue, he uttered an unintelligible sentence, in a “tongue” which totally threw my concentration off. As I was walking back to my pew, instead of focusing on Whom I had just received in Holy Communion and trying to converse with Him , I was stuck asking myself - “What was that. . . what the heck did Father just say?”
2. On one of the evenings, the group insisted on praying over several of us new attendees. They sat us in chairs directly in front of the tabernacle, then stood between us and the tabernacle - facing us, and began to lay their hands on us and to pray over us (a priest , a deacon and about 4 or 5 other persons were praying over us [with things coming out of their mouths that no one could understand] ). During this time, they were moving around, from person to person, but throughout the entire duration, not one genuflection - not one single sign of respect or acknowledgement was shown to to Jesus - right there before us in the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle. .

I’m sure that it doesn’t happen in all parishes, but it happened in mine ; and it was enough to put me off.

In that linked article earlier in this post, Father Hardon alludes to what one of the greatest mystics of the Church - St. John of the Cross has to say about the charisms , or *extraordinary gifts of the Spirit *:

The stand that he takes is predominantly negative; i.e., a warning against the harm that comes from rejoining excessively in the possession of such gifts. The one who does so, he says, leaves himself open to deception, either by the devil or by his own imagination; in relying on these charisms, he loses some of the merit of faith; and finally, he is tempted to vainglory.

Similarly, when St. John discusses supernatural communications that come by way of visions or words, particularly those that are perceived by the imagination or the bodily senses, he is mainly concerned to warn against the dangers of deception and excessive attachment. He condemns the practice of seeking to obtain information from God through persons favored with such communication. Even when God answers the queries that are thus addressed to Him, He does so out of condescension for our weakness, and not because He is pleased to be thus questioned.

If there is anywhere that Pentecostal spirituality seems to conflict with the classical it is here.

 

[NeedImprovement]

it’s a little more complicated than that. I was born with a disability, have accepted it. and even believe it is God’s will for my life.

of course, most people don’t believe that. they say that God would never will sickness or disability. sometimes I get requests for people to pray over me about it, which I am just a bit uncomfortable about. but I feel like I am obligated to accept and I shouldn’t say no to prayer. and most of these people are pretty insistent.

I am tired of being treated like a broken machine that someone has to fix. what’s so wrong with the idea that God did create me the way I am?

I’ve been serving in my apostolate as a lay pastoral assistant to the Catholic Chaplain (priest) in a large (over 400 residents) long-term and palliative care institution for about 20 years now. And one of the things I’ve learned is that someone’s suffering or trial(s), is a very personal thing.

The people you describe* angell1* are, to say the least, rather presumptuous. And they don’t make a distinction between someone’s sickness or disability and what sufferings they undergo from a personal perspective interiorly. Neither should they go around imposing their will on you in God’s name.

The points you are adressing are unfortunately those points which seem to have eluded all these studies - the personal effects on the individuals being prayed over ; particularly when as a consequence , there has been no apparent “healing.”

The way I see it , the sick or disabled person is forever getting blamed - so you end up being more of a “broken machine” than you were before they started on you:

• If you say you would prefer not to be prayed over (for the umpteenth time) - they say you are not open to the Spirit , or that God wants to heal you but you don’t want to be healed (I’ve lived that scenario over and over again with a spinal injury).
• If you accept, and they do pray over you, and you are still not healed,again, they insist you aren’t open to the Spirit or that you don’t have enough faith.

The truth, is that you had more interior peace before they started on you.

One of my patients is a quadraplegic. I don’t know how many times she has been prayed over. Two of her sisters have even brought her to several of these famous televangelist healers (their idea- not hers) and they prayed over her. . . but once it became evident she wasn’t healed, they dropped her like a hot potato and moved on to someone else - no further contact. It has left her feeling crushed on occasion. Yet, I don’t know anyone who is more in love with Jesus than she is. She’s beautiful inside and out and I believe Jesus cherishes her dearly
.
According to your post, it appears that in accepting your disability, you haven’t allowed it to get between you and Jesus : That’s awesome. .

The people who insist on praying over you, OTOH, try to insist that your disability is an obstacle between you and Jesus . . . y’know, “Not open to the Spirit. . . Lack of faith . . . don’t want to be healed.”

What’s wrong with these people . . . Don’t they know that God gave each human soul autonomy. . . :doh2: . . . or maybe they think that being able to read a person’s mind is part of the gift of tongues . . .:dts:

 

[Reuben_J]

it’s a little more complicated than that. I was born with a disability, have accepted it. and even believe it is God’s will for my life.

of course, most people don’t believe that. they say that God would never will sickness or disability. sometimes I get requests for people to pray over me about it, which I am just a bit uncomfortable about. but I feel like I am obligated to accept and I shouldn’t say no to prayer. and most of these people are pretty insistent.

I am tired of being treated like a broken machine that someone has to fix. what’s so wrong with the idea that God did create me the way I am?

Hi. Actually I wanted to address the issue of not enough praying and therefore not healed, which is not true. While praying is important in a life of the believer, healing is exclusively God’s prerogative. More importantly is having faith.

It is true that God does not will sickness and even calamity in this world; he allows it, which are two different things.

You have a positive attitude toward it in that you accept it as God’s will for you. While we can never know what God’s will is truly for us, accepting us as what and who we are, is a positive step towards reconciliation with God. There are many people who have not gotten over that stage and therefore having resentment towards God for their situation.

People who want to pray over you do have good intention for you. They probably feel that they can help you. That is the bottom line. However, it can be irritating especially if it cross the border of your own privacy and freedom. I agree that there’s such overly enthusiastic people who in their enthusiasm disregard your personal feeling.

You actually can refuse, like saying, “not now, maybe some other time.” They can always pray for you in their own prayer time; it does not have to be ministering.

Yes, you are precious in God’s eyes, the work of His hands.

God bless.

 

[grannymh]

The Charismatic movement is , more technically speaking, a revival of Pentecostalism

Please accept my apology. I am dealing with some health and family issues and at the moment I am not really wide awake.

I especially want to study Father Hardon. Thank you. Years back on CAF there were excellent posts on the relationship between formal Pentecostalism and formal Catholicism. I saw one letter document by Father Hardon and everything fell into place regarding the current Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

There is an extreme difference between the event which sparked interest in the presence of the Holy Spirit and the current Renewal. When I saw that Father Hardon was involved with the initial “attempt” I knew that the Holy Spirit was present and active in sorting out the mess.

As the interest in a Pentecostal revival grew, the United States Bishops acted immediately to discern what was happening. For information about the first years, please search this official website and read the beginning of the linked book.

nsc-chariscenter.org/

brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

Father Hardon has more to say on the subject HERE , and EWTN offers information on the “tongues” phenomenon - both speaking in and praying in, including excerpts from the most complete treatment of this subject , published by the Brazilian bishops’ conference -, "Pastoral Orientation Regarding the Catholic Charismatic Renewal,"issued in November 1994 - HERE.

Years back, I was fortunate to read some of the early opposition to the Renewal so when I am fully awake …

Also years back, via CAF, I was in touch with a gentleman who was extremely worried about abuses in one very small section of South America. Depending on leadership, sometimes reform is near impossible. Contact with this gentleman was lost.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal has never been my cup of tea, but I attended all the Life in the Spirit seminars in our parish some years ago - just to give it a try. Though the people (some of whom are my good friends) appeared sincere enough , a couple of anomalies occurred which put me off the whole thing.

In my geographic area, the current Life in the Spirit seminar is used to give depth to our understanding of Catholicism. The gift of Prayer Tongues is explained but not required. I went to a Life in the Spirit seminar because my good “charismatic” friend urged me to go. Toward the end, I told her I was not interested in Prayer Tongues.
Having someone praying to God on my behalf was o.k. I thought I was firm in my “no tongues” decision. Well, you know we women can change… I did not have a complete change of decision. I simply decided that maybe Prayer Tongues could possibly be o.k. I was open to the gift on a conditional basis. That was all the Holy Spirit needed.

When the people who were praying to God for me finished, I walked away. Within minutes, I decided to try Prayer Tongues. So that I would not disturb others, I have a loud voice, I left the building. My prayers in Tongues began. Note: this type of receiving the Holy Spirit gift of Prayer Tongues is unusual. Most of the time there is a period of “beginning.” Sometimes, I do have to laugh at myself walking and talking in the dark.

1. During the Mass portion of the evening , as I approached to receive Holy Communion, the priest said, “The Body of Christ” - to which I responded, “Amen.” But at the same moment that he was placing the Host on my tongue, he uttered an unintelligible sentence, in a “tongue” which totally threw my concentration off. As I was walking back to my pew, instead of focusing on Whom I had just received in Holy Communion and trying to converse with Him , I was stuck asking myself - “What was that. . . what the heck did Father just say?”

1. On one of the evenings, the group insisted on praying over several of us new attendees. They sat us in chairs directly in front of the tabernacle, then stood between us and the tabernacle - facing us, and began to lay their hands on us and to pray over us (a priest , a deacon and about 4 or 5 other persons were praying over us [with things coming out of their mouths that no one could understand] ). During this time, they were moving around, from person to person, but throughout the entire duration, not one genuflection - not one single sign of respect or acknowledgement was shown to to Jesus - right there before us in the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle. .

If those experiences happened today, I would strongly advise discussing this with the Pastor. However, since a priest was involved, I strongly advise checking with your diocesan office to see if this group is approved. Or you could get the name and contact information for the liaison between the Renewal and the Diocese and speak with her or him. At the very least, Catholics should know what is proper. Regarding the gif of Prayer Tongues, sometimes straight forward information is needed. Talking with an approved group leader can help understanding especially when one is unfamiliar with these strange sounds. Understanding is not equal with acceptance.

 

[grannymh]

The Charismatic movement is , more technically speaking, a revival of Pentecostalism

In order to understand the below information of St. John of the Cross, one has to know which particular extraordinary gifts or events are being referred to – and their context. It is important to know the teacher of those gifts.

There is definite danger when one wrongly claims a charism.

Those persons who have studied St. Paul’s nine classical gifts of the Holy Spirit
brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf
I believe that this book is still in print
will recognize that the gifts in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12 are not specifically mentioned in the information below. The closest sentence is this: “He condemns the practice of seeking to obtain information from God through persons favored with such communication.” Here it t is the practice, which can be misused The particular two gifts of the Holy Spirit regarding information by God are specifically named by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12. St. Paul continues teaching in 1 Corinthians, chapter 14.
Note: the nine classical gifts require mature spirituality, time spent in prayer, time spent in learning the ministry. When that is accomplished, proper discernment is used.

Often, in historical events, extraordinary gifts of healing (from St. Paul’s list) are mentioned without reference to St. Paul. What happened in the current Renewal is that persons went back to St. Paul as a source of information for the validity of God’s miracles and the validity of the common gift of Prayer Tongues. Going back to St. Paul involved a renewed look at basic Catholicism and where it differs from the Pentecostal thinking. Father Hardon and others made sure that the Renewal was not drifting from Catholicism.

Years ago, when I moved to a new city, there was still talk about how a group of people were influenced by Pentecostalism and left the local Catholic Church. In my childhood neighborhood, we would say “S*** happens.” Currently, this is why that it is important to check with the diocese about charismatic groups.

In that linked article earlier in this post, Father Hardon alludes to what one of the greatest mystics of the Church - St. John of the Cross has to say about the charisms , or *extraordinary gifts of the Spirit *:

The stand that he takes is predominantly negative; i.e., a warning against the harm that comes from rejoining excessively in the possession of such gifts. The one who does so, he says, leaves himself open to deception, either by the devil or by his own imagination; in relying on these charisms, he loses some of the merit of faith; and finally, he is tempted to vainglory.

Similarly, when St. John discusses supernatural communications that come by way of visions or words, particularly those that are perceived by the imagination or the bodily senses, he is mainly concerned to warn against the dangers of deception and excessive attachment. He condemns the practice of seeking to obtain information from God through persons favored with such communication. Even when God answers the queries that are thus addressed to Him, He does so out of condescension for our weakness, and not because He is pleased to be thus questioned.

If there is anywhere that Pentecostal spirituality seems to conflict with the classical it is here.